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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Not to mention the monkey from the moon who's good at science. Stereotype much!!??
    Well, when you put it that way, it kinda reminds me of the monkey from Dexter's Laboratory. Clearly, a copycat character!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Saafe View Post
    Ah yes, him too. I love the game but I wish they'd of mixed it up a little and not made mostly every character stereotypical
    They're really more "larger than life" characters than stereotypes. Recognisable tropes. They're a lot of fun to play.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    Consider the short hand names.

    Add "Fatass" (Roadhog), "Monkey" (Winston), "Lesbian" (Zarya), "Pink Robot Bitch" (D.Va), "The Motherfucking Eskimo cunt who just froze me" (Mei) and "Dancing Black Dude" (Lucio) to the list.
    What makes that different from this Game of Thrones list?

    Bran Stark - Cripple boy
    Jamie Lanister - Lefty
    Hodor - Hodor
    Daenerys - Naked dragon chick
    Brienne - Viking lady
    Grey Worm - Black soldier guy

    It's easy to oversimplify. You can take interesting, complex characters and whittle them down to a bullet point.

    After seeing the care put into the animated shorts, it's apparent that time has been spent on story, character motivations, and how they interact with the other characters. With Overwatch's "international force" theme, it feels right to celebrate the cultural differences that the world has.

    How would making, for example, the DJ character Korean or the cowboy character Indian make the series work better? It would be perhaps less stereotypical, but would it tell a better story?

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    Consider the short hand names.



    Add "Fatass" (Roadhog), "Monkey" (Winston), "Lesbian" (Zarya), "Pink Robot Bitch" (D.Va), "The Motherfucking Eskimo cunt who just froze me" (Mei) and "Dancing Black Dude" (Lucio) to the list.

    Some of Overwatch's characters have as much imagination as that time Blizzard randomly turn Tyrael into a black guy because the needed to unlike the "Impliment the Magic Negro Trope" Game Development achievement.

    So much of overwatch is a walking steroeotype, which makes it painfully ironic people try to identify with the characters and what passes for "lore" (for the love of god, just read Kingdom Come).
    Does it really matter that Tyrael's human form has brown skin? This is the first time i've seen anyone throw a fit over that. Also, it's pretty easy to give characters of any game "cheeky" shorthand nicknames and purposefully gloss over any details they might have. Sure there are some characters like cowboy man that would be stereotypical, but I fail to see how a robot monk or a scientist gorilla from the moon are walking stereotypes. Infact, I wouldn't call them stereotypes as much as I would call them character archetypes. Some of them may be a little more cliche than others, but it's better than having a bunch of gritty, grunty, 1-dimensional beefcakes like Gears of War.

    That image works against you. I mean look at it - they all have distinct silhouettes and no one character looks the same, or uninteresting. Even the sarcastic and dumbed down descriptions show that these characters are all still unique and identifiable from one another, and that's what matters, as well as what makes the character roster diverse. Those cheap monikers also suggest that the characters are iconic for their signature abilities, personality/occupation, or appearance. If this is the case, then Blizzard actually did a good job with character design, and to be honest, i've never seen Blizzard do a bad job with a character's appearance yet.

    TL;DR Originality =/= Diversity. Just because one book did a similar story before Overwatch doesn't mean the characters aren't diverse, and it doesn't make the story shallow either. If this was the case, World of Warcraft would have a bad story due to other fantasy titles existing first. No one cares about Kingdom Come, that won't ruin Overwatch for anyone but you I guess.
    Last edited by Mellrod; 2016-05-26 at 04:49 AM.

  5. #145
    the bait is real

    diver city +1

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainV View Post
    Seriously, the appeal is in what the PERSON is, not what their label, is.
    Their "label" is part of who they are though, and potentially part of why they're badass and or relatable to some.

    I prefer the miles morales spiderman series to the peter parker one for instance. And a lot of what drives that comes from him being half black half hispanic. It's not specifically the fact that he's those things that makes him a more interesting character to me, but him being those things causes the writing to put him into situations that I can relate to as with those "labels" he is also bringing the culture behind those labels with him. When miles is falling behind in school due to his superheroing and his spanish mother calls up his spanish grandma to lay the smack down and straighten his ass out in very stereotypical spanish parent fashion, I can relate to that. It makes the character more endearing to me, in a way that peter parker never realistically could be unless they tried to shoe horn cultural tropes into the character that clearly don't belong there.

    On the flip side, when I read the new ms marvel I definitely don't relate to her like I do to miles. She's muslim / pakistani which are two things I most definitely am not, but I still find her a more interesting character for it. It's not specifically because of those labels that I find her a more interesting character though, it's because of what those labels bring. There's again culture and a family dynamic that gets brought to the table that simply wouldn't be there if she was a different race or religion etc. And I enjoy getting to see that different dynamic and the culture brought with it. It's a lot more interesting than something I've seen countless times and know very well.

    For instance the "falling behind in school due to trying to juggle being a super hero and real life" is fairly cliche. Lots of different characters run up against that issue at some point, but what keeps it fresh is how it affects those different characters and how they end up dealing with it both personally and with the people around them, and that highly depends on who they are as people. And these "labels" tend to be a large part of who that individual is as a person.
    ..and so he left, with terrible power in shaking hands.

  7. #147
    Warchief dixincide's Avatar
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    i care about gameplay.

    whether i am represented or not is irrelivant to me.
    I dont explore, i dont own a mansion, and I am not a girl.
    but i still play Tomb Raider.
    there are no mid level accountants with vision impairments in Overwatch but I still play it.
    The world isn't as bad as you think.

  8. #148
    Made some very interesting points

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainV View Post
    Okay, lets start by being civil on this topic, since the last one ended in a fire blazing itself into oblivion, lets start with this:

    I am a white male straight player, I happen to be disabled with aspergers, and I also happen to be a pretty intimite gamer who likes to play some pretty challenging games, as long as they dont revolve around a tedious grind.

    Am I represented in the gaming industry? Probably, do I actually "care" if I am represented?

    Not really.

    Heres the thing, pro divercity, anti divercity, no matter what side of the fence your on, the reality is, your a gamer, first and foremost, your interest is the game.

    If a game has an interesting cast of vibrant individuals, or a cliche cast of predictable individuals, what matters, is why you care about it, you play it because you want to play it, it doesnt really matter what "steriotype" it appeals to or "category" it appeals to, becuase frankly, the notion of such things is irelevent in fiction.

    So lets start with the whole, colours/sex/sexual prefference thing.

    What makes a character interesting?

    The truth is, its not the colour of their skin, the sex they represent, or the sexuality they stand for. It really doesnt matter if they are disabled, straight, gay, transgender, or anything else.

    Before and above all else, what matters is, are they interesting as a person. If the answer is yes, then its not because of their appearence or cliche that they are interesting, its beause of their design.

    The writers/actors/designers that bring these characters to life make them fun for you to enjoy, you feel like this char is some badass chick, or awesome dude, or some evil douche you come to love even if their also gay.

    It doesnt matter what the "Sub-type" is, because that shouldnt "dominate" the character trope. Do you watch a vampire because they're a vampire? No, you watch them because of their character, who happens to be a vampire.

    Do you watch a female char because shes portrayed as a strong, independant epic badass that can beat up men? No, you watch her because shes cool, and thats really what appeals.

    Do you like the black guy because hes black? No, you like him because hes a badass.

    Simply put, your reason for liking these people has "nothing" to do with their physical characteristics, disabilities, sex prefference or gender.

    You are only interested in them BECAUSE, they are appealing to you, as a CHARACTER, in FICTION.

    Now lets put that into perspective for a second...

    Im disabled, mentally disabled at that, do I "want" to be represented in a video game?

    No, I dont I really couldnt care if I was, frankly id rather not have someone try to represent my disability as if "someone gets it" because frankly only "I" get me, only "I" understand who "I" am and nobody will ever truly grasp what "I" want to a core T even if they can come close or make interesting chars based on my archetype.

    I mean, as an example, Borderlands has a character who happens to be autistic, I didnt even realize that UNTIL someone brought it up in the game itself, and I didnt even 'care' when I learned it because I was too busy laughing at how epic she was and just fun to listen to and watch.

    Seriously, the appeal is in what the PERSON is, not what their label, is.

    Because frankly? A label? Be it a steriotypical white male blonde hero or a steriotypical strong female heroine, is boring.

    Because if they dont have personality, depth, layers, and character development that makes them engaging to watch and grow with, then why do I actually 'care' about them?

    See this is where the "issue" is, for alot of gamers, to all you pro represent folks out there.

    What we dont really care about, is that very point, we dont 'care' if they are transgender or not, what we care about, is that they're an interesting character that HAPPENS to be transgender but that entire thing does NOT dominate their character development or depth.

    And see thats... what gamers really want, and really care about that are anti-represent, its not that they dont like it, they just want people to actually write characters with "ACTUAL" personality, not just "they're gay, and you should like them or your a homophobe".

    Sorry but that medium is "never" going to win people over, okay?

    Because even the gay people can agree, thats not a good way to get people to 'care'.

    So simply put, what we like about overwatch "IS" the divercity, but NOT because they're female, gay, straight, robot, or whatever.

    But because they're AWESOME, and every one of them is fun to play and learn about.

    So dont think were all homophobes in closets refusing to progress, we just dont want that thrust in our faces and be forced to "care" about it.
    Are we really talking about this in video games? Imagine the fun you could have had in game playing instead of writing this long winded, pointless post.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Lery View Post
    Are we really talking about this in video games? Imagine the fun you could have had in game playing instead of writing this long winded, pointless post.
    Already am, its a pretty awesome game.

  11. #151
    I'm a white, middle class male.

    I prefer games that don't give you a choice of gender, race, or background. I'd prefer that the writers write what they want to write. I enjoy a game where the main character is a non-white female more than I enjoy a game where the character is completely customizable and can be a white dude. People give characters like Bella from Twilight shit because they are pairs of indistinct, loose fitting pants for anyone to step into. That is shallow, low-road writing, and is no different than including characters for diversity's sake rather than because that character's diversity defines their character in some way. You aren't SUPPOSED to relate to a character, you are supposed to read, watch, or play their story. Would the Hobbit have been better if there were two versions of the book? One where Bilbo outsmarted Smeagol and one where Bilbina did the same? Of course not, both would be diminished because of the amount of time wasted making every line of dialogue make sense for that version of the character.

    And now, here's the part where I'm going to get a TON of flak from this forum. Fem-shep is the worst thing they ever did to Mass Effect. I don't like that Shepard was customizable at all, I would have preferred he had one appearance... but after the first game, suddenly, out of NOWHERE, a movement rose up and created an icon that was held above the original based on nothing more than a freaking gender slider. How stupid is that? They created a character (granted, with some customization, again, I hate that), then they pretended that character never REALLY existed... that he was just one possible character.

    If Shepard had been Fem-shep from the start, I would have the SAME problem if they had hoisted a male to the fore some years later, I would see her as PURELY a female character. I don't want a male Lara Croft, her character's most recent iteration is perfect the way she is, so why do I have to accept a female Commander Shepard?

    On a final note, I love the diversity of Overwatch. It seems to me a good example of unique characters who have had adequate time spent on their backgrounds and personalities, and I'd have no problem with opposite gender skins for the heroes in Overwatch, but I'll be pissed if they ever put out a story or official endorsement of a male Tracer or a Female McCree. Stop forcing politics into fiction and let fiction be GOOD fiction.
    Last edited by Rhaide; 2016-05-25 at 09:56 PM.
    I think I've had enough of removing avatars today that feature girls covered in semen. Closing.
    -Darsithis

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhaide View Post
    And now, here's the part where I'm going to get a TON of flak from this forum. Fem-shep is the worst thing they ever did to Mass Effect. I don't like that Shepard was customizable at all, I would have preferred he had one appearance.
    It's been years since I played the original Mass Effect on Xbox, so my memory may be hazy...
    Was Shepherd ever only supposed to be male? I remember booting up the game, picking female and never thinking twice about it. Enjoyed the voice actress.

    For a game that plays like a "choose-your-own-adventure" novel, it certainly felt normal to be given choices.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Reyvah View Post
    It's been years since I played the original Mass Effect on Xbox, so my memory may be hazy...
    Was Shepherd ever only supposed to be male? I remember booting up the game, picking female and never thinking twice about it. Enjoyed the voice actress.

    For a game that plays like a "choose-your-own-adventure" novel, it certainly felt normal to be given choices.
    Fem-shep was absolutely not a thing in ME1, you COULD choose a female character sure, but they did a lot back then to define the character as male.
    I think I've had enough of removing avatars today that feature girls covered in semen. Closing.
    -Darsithis

  14. #154
    Titan Maxilian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhaide View Post
    Fem-shep was absolutely not a thing in ME1, you COULD choose a female character sure, but they did a lot back then to define the character as male.
    Still not like it was done wrong, if that were the case i would agree with you

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    It doesn't. Which is why we're never the ones making a big issue out of it. So yeah.
    You say that yet history shows otherwise.

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