Switzerland: Muslim students must shake teacher's hand

[Bollocks]

Schools in Switzerland do.

My friend is Swiss and he had to pay fines when he was a few minutes late.
Even if he was late due to no fault of his own (public transport derp, we all know these can happen).

I didn't want to believe it at first either, but they have EXTREMELY strict rules over there.

My god thats stupid.

[nonameelf]

And that is the stupidity of this situation, that they are sanctioning people for not shaking hands.

Why? Fining parents for misbehaving students is a very good way to get parents involved in the disciplinary process. Things like suspensions are utterly worthless punishments.

No they don't. They can receive all the benefits while giving you the finger as long as they aren't breaking the law. Don't be oversensitive just because people don't want to adopt your culture, grow a thicker skin.

No, not really. They won't be able to find any good jobs if they're outright sexist. People just won't hire them.

[Granyala]

And that is the stupidity of this situation, that they are sanctioning people for not shaking hands.

They aren't sanctioning for not shaking hands.
They are sanctioning because of displayed disrespect.

German schools sanction too, except not via money or anything.
If I showed even the slightest signs of disrespect my parents would be informed (If you have proper parents, that usually is more than enough).
If I were to continue to be troublesome I'd eventually have to leave the school.

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No they don't. They can receive all the benefits while giving you the finger as long as they aren't breaking the law. Don't be oversensitive just because people don't want to adopt your culture, grow a thicker skin.

Discriminating against women IS breaking the law.

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My god thats stupid.

Yup, pretty much sums up my reaction to this.

[Spl4sh3r]

I see no reason why anyone under any circumstance should be forced to shake hand, whether it's a sign of respect or not shouldn't even matter. Why is handshaking even required at school? If it is only for the "respect" there are soooo many other ways you can show it that is better than shaking hands.

[kail]

Good. What kind of stupid belief system forbids the shaking if hands anyway?

Not trying to sound ignorant, but don't some Asian counties bow instead of shaking hands?

Ultimately though, do as the Romans. A fine for not shaking hands is overly extreme. At most, simply reflect the lack of respect to the host. For example, it could be a deciding factor when hiring during an interview. A car dealer could reject the deal. An insult is an insult, which varies on where you are.

I see no reason why anyone under any circumstance should be forced to shake hand, whether it's a sign of respect or not shouldn't even matter. Why is handshaking even required at school?

Yea on the other hand, I am hardly for unreasonable traditions like handshaking/bowing or kissing on the cheek.

[Bollocks]

They aren't sanctioning for not shaking hands.
They are sanctioning because of displayed disrespect.

German schools sanction too, except not via money or anything.
If I showed even the slightest signs of disrespect my parents would be informed (If you have proper parents, that usually is more than enough).
If I were to continue to be troublesome I'd eventually have to leave the school.

And I agree they should be punished for disrespecting the teacher, but not economically sanctioned by it.

[Clone]

No, not really. They won't be able to find any good jobs if they're outright sexist. People just won't hire them.

They still won't be killed, and can still make money with a shitty job. Immigrants not integrating is happening right now, and has been happening for a long time. There is nothing you can do to change that.

[Granyala]

Otherwise, I'd hate to see all the charges brought against people who open doors for women....but not men!!! /dramaticTheme

Wouldn't that be nice. ._.

No clue about swiss law. But apparently refusing the woman only was enough to make a fuss out of it.

[HumbleDuck]

What schools did you people go to that didn't have restrictions on freedom?

I for one never was forced to touch a teacher, as a matter of fact we were instructed very clearly to report if one of them does.

[nonameelf]

They still won't be killed, and can still make money with a shitty job. Immigrants not integrating is happening right now, and has been happening for a long time. There is nothing you can do to change that.

It seems the Swiss find this unacceptable.

And I agree they should be punished for disrespecting the teacher, but not economically sanctioned by it.

And what should the punishment be then?

I for one never was forced to touch a teacher, as a matter of fact we were instructed very clearly not to.

If you were being sexist and disrespectful to your female teachers you sure as fuck would have been disciplined.

[Lylandra]

Are they actually fined because of not shaking hands in general or because of refusing to shake womens hands only?

The former would be a bit weird, I agree.
The latter simply falls into the discrimination area, which IS heavily regulated these days.

Well, I am not sure in which side I stand in this case...
On the one hand, this is Swiss culture and shaking hands with - whomever - is common courtesy and expected if you want to be taken as a normal citizen. And I'm all for adapting to your host culture and integrating into society yadda yadda.

However, IIRC their (student's) statement was that touching the hands (or any body part) of the opposite sex would be a sexual act in their eyes and therefore disrespectful.

Now, coming from our culture this stance seems ridiculous in general. For us, it is normal and expected to treat the opposite sex as just the same as your own (in general) when it comes to casual, friendly closeness. We hug, touch, cuddle, comfort each other, depending on the level of comfort and closeness and not necessarily based on sex.

But what if a (non-muslim) pupil doesn't want to touch the hand of an opposite sex teacher for other (or maybe similar?) reasons?
What if the child is autistic or really sociophobic and can barely stand being around other people?
What if the child is a germophobe and doesn't want to shake hands at all?
What if the child has been sexually abused and is now really afraid of any contact with the opposite sex? (because "touch" suddenly has a sexual connotation for *this* child)

Would those reasons be "okay" to not shake hands? I can see a lot of you posters being okay with the latter, especially if it is a young girl who dosn't want to shake hands with a man...

[Granyala]

Only because of their ethnic class, and only because of the current "Migrant Panic" nonsense floating around. Not because shaking hands - or the female angle - were actually of note in any way.

Sure I'd buy that in terms of the "making a news article about it" angle.
But if I read the OP correctly, actual authorities with actual power condoned this and voted to enforce this.

Shouldn't these arbiters of the law be blind towards "migrant panic" etc?

[ranzino]

And I agree they should be punished for disrespecting the teacher, but not economically sanctioned by it.

Fat chance the family would also cry about ANY punishment.

[Mehrunes]

We can discuss whether enforcing handshakes via a law makes sense or not:
IMHO it doesn't. I think a German judge would probably lift an eyebrow, make you pay your fees and call for the next case if you did bring it to him.

But that's not really the matter here. Apparently they have that law in Switzerland, however weird it may seem to us, so muslim or non muslim, they have to obey it.

Where does it say so? The article specifically says that the handshaking is a tradition, nothing else. And this regional body specifically ruled on Muslims. It says so in the very first sentence. But even if it was for some reason affecting everyone, it would still go contrary to human rights. Switzerland is party to pretty much any global or regional act about human rights that exists. Bodily integrity is part of these rights.

As for legislating respect: very difficult. But if I insult someone, he has the right to go to the police over it. (Not sure about your country)
So, in a way, respectful behavior already is legislated.

And there are thousands of ways one can show disrespect/not show respect that are not legislated. Starting with simply telling someone "I don't respect you".

[Deleted]

I think it's good. When you enter a culture that's not your own you can indeed bring your own traditions, but if they actually are against those of the majority of the people and they break the idea of equality, freedom etc, they have no room anymore. If you want to keep following those traditions, you need to find another place to live in.

This is not a stand against islam, but one against discrimination between genders.

[nonameelf]

And there are thousands of ways one can show disrespect/not show respect that are not legislated. Starting with simply telling someone "I don't respect you".

And I assume there would be punishment for any other way of showing disrespect to teachers.

[Granyala]

Would those reasons be "okay" to not shake hands? I can see a lot of you posters being okay with the latter, especially if it is a young girl who dosn't want to shake hands with a man...

I'd be okay with muslims not shaking the hand of a woman, IF they demonstrate their respect in other ways.
It really depends on the rest of their behavior, which we are not privy to in this forum.

But then again, I didn't grow up in an environment that mandated handshakes by "semi law" and I rarely offer my hand to other people.
A swiss person might feel different about this.

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Are we implying that lawmakers aren't humans, too?

If lawmakers are influenced THAT easily, I'd suggest that we have a major problem in the way we determine laws for our society.

[Deleted]

Not trying to sound ignorant, but don't some Asian counties bow instead of shaking hands?

Ultimately though, do as the Romans. A fine for not shaking hands is overly extreme. At most, simply reflect the lack of respect to the host. For example, it could be a deciding factor when hiring during an interview. A car dealer could reject the deal. An insult is an insult, which varies on where you are.

Yes, the deal is though not that he didn't shake hands, but he specifically didn't shake hands with women. If he'd have not shaken hands with anyone I doubt it would have been such a big deal.

[Bollocks]

Fat chance the family would also cry about ANY punishment.

Well, then they should just deal with it. But what happens if the family doesn't have the money to pay the fine or is in an economical harship? It doesn't seem fair, by this system parents who have a lot of money can piss this punishment and throw the money to get their kids out of the problems.

[Snowfunk]

Respect to Switzerland, seriously.