Tier gear is back into lfr!!

[roahn the warlock]

Here is the main and major issue with putting tier gear into LFR. But having too many ways to gear up and "Complete the game" you essentially cut the time needed to "Complete the game" in half. There are people, no doubt, who think having full LFR gear is beating the game. And now, you are just making it easy and fast again. That is bad, it burns people out, and it's going to burn people out again.

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I really like this change, as I did LFR a lot in MoP (it was actually my main form of raiding, excluding SoO). The difficulty was almost right (could have been a bit more difficult), but it still was ways better experience than WoD snoozefest. While you actually could whipe there, in WoD LFR that's not even theoretically plausible to whipe, and rewards are as terrible, not useful to anyone.

In MoP LFR rewards were just about right, loved the chance to get tier pieces (with actual set bonus mechanics) and trinkets with procs, not some second rate stat blocks..

You see that bolded section? THAT IS FLEX RAIDING, IN WOD IT IS CALLED NORMAL

[Vichan]

Why do people honestly think WoD's problem was removing tier from LFR. Everyone got fucked in wod dude, stop blaming raiding. What would you rather have, meaningful world content and dungeons, or LFR. Just, let's all agree WoD was shit, and stop acting like blizzard was catering to raiders, they weren't. they just half assed WoD.

all of it, legion's got the world content and dungeons right so what's wrong with giving them the "better" version of lfr as well? It's not hurting anyone letting them have their difficulty

[Irian]

Thank god.

I would've preferred they simply give tier a VP/Badge system to please both groups of players, but if they refuse to bring that back then this is the next best thing. This is the best way to keep players who don't actively raid from being up to 25% of a raider's power simply because they don't have broken set bonuses and trinkets.

I'm sorry, but there is absolutely zero excuse, no matter how short-sighted and/or elitist someone might be, for the condition of WoD. Players at mythic endgame are up to 8 times more powerful than people in 675 ilvl. That's not rewarding raiders, that's downright idiotic balancing. If tier is in LFR then that's one more way to keep this from happening.

[Swarzey]

The numbers are super low for WoD because :

1 - The people that mostly quit the game were casuals doing mostly LFR runs
2 - LFR rewards were pure garbage
3 - Their character saw barely any progression by tackling higher "LFR" raids because ofd the lack of set bonuses and worthwhile trinkets.

Why do LFR when you get better gear from Tanaan of all places? Or from doing your weekly 8 mythic dungeons? WoD made the mistake to listen to the so called "elite" who cried like babies that LFR players were the scum of the earth and that they didn't deserve any reward whatsoever (as can be seen by the countless threads of people demanding LFR be removed from the game) and that hurt the game way beyond anything else reallu (yes, including the garissons)

Got a source to back that up? Or like flight, like the general lack of content in the world, like PvP being a mess; millions left for your specific reason?

On the second part, this isn't changing in Legion. World quests are going to allow you to collect better gear than what LFR is going to offer. Professions should hopefully provide more. Mythic dungeons are going to offer better quality gear including tier. What's going to be different? Why are you going to do LFR in Legion if you can obtain better gear out in the world? It might not be Tanaan-esque handouts, but it all sounds quite easy to obtain.

[Daffan]

Nobody is forcing you to get the raid finder version. And if LFR is gated as it usually is nowadays you will be raiding normal in no time with mythic dungeon and heroic dungeon gear.

Except for the part where when LFR raid 2 welfare comes out, nobody is doing anything before it anymore. (Just like how you can never do highmaul or BRF / anything before 700 item level anymore). So if your a new, returning or average player you get screwed on relevant content

Why? Why should it be worse than honor gear, or gear you can buy from a vendor in tanaan? That's just bad design.

Both of those things you listed shouldn't of existed in the first place.

[Tucci]

Actually they are learning from their mistakes, they tried to funnel people in normal raiding with WoD and it failed completely, I'm willing to bet the WoD's lfr was as big a cause of sub loss as anything else. I seem to remember blizzard saying one time that more people do lfr exclusively than normal/heroic/mythic put together. lfr isn't hurting anyone so let them have it

I don't think it failed at all, especially with the group finder which is one of the best things they've ever put into the game. That's what LFR should've been. And if more people do it, it's because it's so easily accessible. You click one button and you're instantly in a raid that you can can click your way through and get tier and a legendary. Where's the incentive to do tougher raids? Numbers aren't that big of an incentive. Everyone likes doing more damage. But numbers are boring.

[kamuimac]

Good! The travesty that was wod lfr is no more! This could single handedly be the best change in Legion.

+1 - WoD was completly missed model really glad blizzard reversed their politics of screwing with lfr players

[roahn the warlock]

all of it, legion's got the world content and dungeons right so what's wrong with giving them the "better" version of lfr as well? It's not hurting anyone letting them have their difficulty

Just watch and wait my friend, I hope I am wrong, but you'll see. You, like all others will fall into the same trap. With LFR giving the best gear for bads (Bads not casuals, casuals can raid). You, like others, won't see the appeal of doing other content cause LFr is faster and easier. I remember it happened in MoP, then people were like Wah, I dun like world content. And they removed it. They didn't see the need to bother making meaningful world content and dungeons. Because you people didn't realize LFR is the warcraft equivalent of Americanized Karate, with 10 belts handed out monthly irregardless of actually learning anything. And blackbelt losing all meaning. That is LFR.

[Vichan]

they improved it, that's good. But this is taking all that work and flushing it down the drain way I see it now.

Not at all, there's nothing wrong with giving them decent lfr back

Here is the main and major issue with putting tier gear into LFR. But having too many ways to gear up and "Complete the game" you essentially cut the time needed to "Complete the game" in half. There are people, no doubt, who think having full LFR gear is beating the game. And now, you are just making it easy and fast again. That is bad, it burns people out, and it's going to burn people out again.

no worse than burning anyone out that's running the same dungeons over and over and over again on the mythic+(you know that people are gonna find the easiest one and try their best to just stick to that)

[Daffan]

Just watch and wait my friend, I hope I am wrong, but you'll see. You, like all others will fall into the same trap. With LFR giving the best gear for bads (Bads not casuals, casuals can raid). You, like others, won't see the appeal of doing other content cause LFr is faster and easier. I remember it happened in MoP, then people were like Wah, I dun like world content. And they removed it.

Exactly lmao.

People keep crying about not enough world content, dungeons, zones, quest stuff and heaps of other "casual" centric stuff, but jump and do back flips at the first sign of welfare gear that makes all that other stuff obsolete.

It's like a double edged sword they keep gripping tighter and tighter.

[roahn the warlock]

Not at all, there's nothing wrong with giving them decent lfr back

no worse than burning anyone out that's running the same dungeons over and over and over again on the mythic+(you know that people are gonna find the easiest one and try their best to just stick to that)

I disagree, Diablo 3 is only good since they added torment and greater rifts.

[Vichan]

Just watch and wait my friend, I hope I am wrong, but you'll see. You, like all others will fall into the same trap. With LFR giving the best gear for bads (Bads not casuals, casuals can raid). You, like others, won't see the appeal of doing other content cause LFr is faster and easier. I remember it happened in MoP, then people were like Wah, I dun like world content. And they removed it. They didn't see the need to bother making meaningful world content and dungeons. Because you people didn't realize LFR is the warcraft equivalent of Americanized Karate, with 10 belts handed out monthly irregardless of actually learning anything. And blackbelt losing all meaning. That is LFR.

Actually, I don't really do lfr other than to get the satchels for BoA's to speed up gearing alts, I pugged my way from the start of the expac(literally from kargath normal to heroic archimonde), now that I've finally got a guild and starting mythic there's even less reason for me to step into lfr

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Exactly lmao.

People keep crying about not enough world content, dungeons, zones, quest stuff and heaps of other "casual" centric stuff, but jump and do back flips at the first sign of welfare gear that makes all that other stuff obsolete.

It's like a double edged sword they keep gripping tighter and tighter.

Not at all, seeing as the world quest gear scales up, it has the potential to end up being better than lfr gear still. not to mention the class hall sets and any other gear you may end up with from it and the legandaries

[roahn the warlock]

Actually, I don't really do lfr other than to get the satchels for BoA's to speed up gearing alts, I pugged my way from the start of the expac(literally from kargath normal to heroic archimonde), now that I've finally got a guild and starting mythic there's even less reason for me to step into lfr

I am under the impression that many raiders now pug raid. Since they likely figured out that it is faster, more rewarding, and more fun than LFR. I know I will never understand the appeal of doing mindless and boring content, because I like to challenge myself. But... I worry that this will effect casual raiders.

[Vichan]

I actually see this as a good thing since the gear is much closer in legion it's gonna help make it easier for lfr raiders to break into normal, currently you'd have a hard time getting into an hfc normal pug in hfc lfr gear

[roahn the warlock]

I actually see this as a good thing since the gear is much closer in legion it's gonna help make it easier for lfr raiders to break into normal, currently you'd have a hard time getting into an hfc normal pug in hfc lfr gear

It won't change anything, at the end of the day normal raiding is a test of skill more than gear. I would rather they made normal raiding more accessible, than make LFR the step needed to get into normal.

[Kulthar]

Why do people honestly think WoD's problem was removing tier from LFR. Everyone got fucked in wod dude, stop blaming raiding. What would you rather have, meaningful world content and dungeons, or LFR. Just, let's all agree WoD was shit, and stop acting like blizzard was catering to raiders, they weren't. they just half assed WoD.

wtf ??

sith said bliz caved into forum qq to put back lfr tiers...

my response they caved into forum qq to take it away..

nowhere in there does it say WOD sucks big cocks because it took away LFR tiers..
it simply counters and offhand glib smackdown with the fact that bliz first caved in to the 'snowflakes' who demanded tiers be removed from lfr cos those players are scum.

learn to read

[Vichan]

I am under the impression that many raiders now pug raid. Since they likely figured out that it is faster, more rewarding, and more fun than LFR. I know I will never understand the appeal of doing mindless and boring content, because I like to challenge myself. But... I worry that this will effect casual raiders.

Like i said, I'd rather them go back to the MoP style lfr where there was actually a little difficulty(maybe not difficult for someone like me or you, but then again that content isn't meant for players like us)

[Spotnick]

I couldn't give a rat's ass if it,s available in LFR, but make the set bonus unique to LFR.

It's completely stupid that you can complete your mythic set with a LFR piece (I could say the same for all difficulties)

[roahn the warlock]

Like i said, I'd rather them go back to the MoP style lfr where there was actually a little difficulty(maybe not difficult for someone like me or you, but then again that content isn't meant for players like us)

You're honestly just confused. LFR today is the same as it was in MoP, you just got better at the game. It's still a wipefest, trust me. People bitched that Archie was too hard. A archie that a guild actually killed completely naked, only using weapons, jewlery, and trinkets.

[Vichan]

It won't change anything, at the end of the day normal raiding is a test of skill more than gear. I would rather they made normal raiding more accessible, than make LFR the step needed to get into normal.

You're going to be against this no matter what, I think it's a change for the better and the positives outweigh any negatives for this.