Fury Legion Discussion

[mirix]

Is there a video / tutorial someone can link me to that explains artifact weapons and how the traits / relics work?

[Freedom]

Question for anyone with beta access: how similar would 7.0 level 100 Fury (698 ilvl) feel compared to Legion Fury once you get your artifact and upgrade it a modest amount? Like, the amount you get from questing etc.

Why I ask is, I know balancing takes into account Artifact traits, but I'm hoping that level 100 7.0 Fury play in the pre patch can give me a rough idea what Legion 110 Fury will be like. I still can't decide if I want to reroll to DK or not, and hope level 100 will provide an okay comparison between Fury and Frost's playability.

Anyone? I'd really like to know how representative 100 Fury in 7.0 will be of the spec at 110 with some artifact power. I don't have a beta key, so "go play beta" isn't an option. And while I do know it won't be a perfect representation of Fury at 110, I just want to know if it's miles away, or somewhat close.

[shyguybman]

If I was alliance I would pick a gnome regardless of the racial cuz they look awesome LOL tiny ass gnome with big ass weapons!

[Khelon]

Anyone? I'd really like to know how representative 100 Fury in 7.0 will be of the spec at 110 with some artifact power. I don't have a beta key, so "go play beta" isn't an option. And while I do know it won't be a perfect representation of Fury at 110, I just want to know if it's miles away, or somewhat close.

The weapon focuses mainly towards damage improvements and most of those are just set and forget. But survivability will heavily increase when you obtain the weapon and start unlocking Battle Scars (15% at max lvl) & Bloodcraze (3% at max lvl)

So you will feel like you're taking too much damage at lvl 100 compared to lvl 110, which is also why I heavily recommend to always spec Warpaint while you're still lvl 100.

Odyn's Champion is really the only thing that changes your rotation a little. When this ability procs, all your special attacks will reduce the cooldown of bladestorm, battlecry, dragons roar, heroic leap, outburst, avatar and so on. But since rampage is 5 different attacks, it will reduce the cooldown of your spells by 15 sec rather than 3 sec, so you probably would want to prioritize rampage a little more when this thing procs.

But one thing you cannot test with ANY spec, is how gear will function as you hit lvl 110. Scaling will be different this expansion and you will have full dungeon blues (about 825 ilvl) which can actually get you to 30-40% one stat and 20-25% for another, which isnt possible with wod dungeon blues.

I advice you not to play arms on any fight that has more than 3 targets (if you plan to test this spec aswell), as you really need the artifact ability to do any form of decent aoe with that spec.

[Freedom]

The weapon focuses mainly towards damage improvements and most of those are just set and forget. But survivability will heavily increase when you obtain the weapon and start unlocking Battle Scars (15% at max lvl) & Bloodcraze (3% at max lvl)

So you will feel like you're taking too much damage at lvl 100 compared to lvl 110, which is also why I heavily recommend to always spec Warpaint while you're still lvl 100.

Odyn's Champion is really the only thing that changes your rotation a little. When this ability procs, all your special attacks will reduce the cooldown of bladestorm, battlecry, dragons roar, heroic leap, outburst, avatar and so on. But since rampage is 5 different attacks, it will reduce the cooldown of your spells by 15 sec rather than 3 sec, so you probably would want to prioritize rampage a little more when this thing procs.

But one thing you cannot test with ANY spec, is how gear will function as you hit lvl 110. Scaling will be different this expansion and you will have full dungeon blues (about 825 ilvl) which can actually get you to 30-40% one stat and 20-25% for another, which isnt possible with wod dungeon blues.

I advice you not to play arms on any fight that has more than 3 targets (if you plan to test this spec aswell), as you really need the artifact ability to do any form of decent aoe with that spec.

Thank you. Let's hope my crappy Season 2 Warlords gear can simulate early Legion dungeon blues as far as crit goes, sort of.

[Deleted]

Human racial is 2% extra stat from gear and its not going to be better than 1% stat racials before around 890 ilvl, so not before 3rd raid or something like that. But I think its still going to beat 1% crit's with low ilvl because you dont really benefit from that while battlecry is up.

Correct, latest build mentioned 2%, but on beta at least the tooltip says 1%. Probally tooltip that is incorrect. And indeed, let's not forget it's also 2% on Mastery and Crit. So I think it will be better, but when it comes down to pure haste, Gnome racial will win.

Then again theres no way Im going to play gnome of all races, I'd rather live with less resource cap and go nightelf if I really want 1% haste (unless you raid before 6pm then its just as worthless as worgen imo)

Human all the way!

[ShasVa]

Got a Fury Warrior on Live. Also got questions:

1) If this new Human racial stays as is, should I change from Pandaren to Human? I boosted as Pandaren because the animations looked sweet (especially with 2H katanas), but these are changing in Legion anyway. Also the food racial seemed of worth.

2) CSP (Kazzak trinket) and GWH (mythic trinket) are probably the only two trinkets I can obtain between now and the pre-patch (I have the latter already). Will these suffice for 100-110?

3) I may be able to get the 715 ring by the time of the pre-patch (at minimum, the 690 ring). Will this suffice for Legion leveling, even if I replace it later?

With BM Hunter a shell of its former self, and not being too keen on pet management anymore (sorry Demolock), I'm looking at something that can strike hard, strike fast, and take a fair amount of punishment. That something is looking like the Fury Warrior!

[Deleted]

I'm at a wierd point where I expect Blizzard to do some more tuning but at the same time worry they won't.

Either way, I really hope to see RB above FS in priority in the baseline rotation. Anything else seems ridiculous to me.

A baseline ability like RB should be worth using without having to choose that one specific talent. I'd hate to sit down and play Legion only to learn that RB was considered pretty much worthless in the current state of the Fury Warrior. Would be like having no real reason to press Lava Lash, Corruption or Cobra Shot because other abilities are just that much better in some fashion.

But there's still some time before tuning is over so I can still hope they don't fuck up something so basic.

im the same i really really hope they remove furious slash and bake its mechanics into raging blow i think the final boss guy mentions that. like you can spam it. it generates that crit buff to blood thirst. then when enraged it generates 20 rage does more damage and has a 10% chance to increase your enrage by seconds or something. that last part might be abit over powered but i hate furious slash the sound it makes is horrendous. and raging blow should be i feel our go to button. kind of like heroic strike back in the day but instead of spending rage this 1 generates it and has a chance to increase enrage up time and crant crit to blood thirst. would be worth while to smash the button then....

[shyguybman]

Human racial is 2% extra stat from gear and its not going to be better than 1% stat racials before around 890 ilvl, so not before 3rd raid or something like that. But I think its still going to beat 1% crit's with low ilvl because you dont really benefit from that while battlecry is up.

Then again theres no way Im going to play gnome of all races, I'd rather live with less resource cap and go nightelf if I really want 1% haste (unless you raid before 6pm then its just as worthless as worgen imo)

whoa whoa whoa, gnome warriors look amazing!

[Khelon]

Got a Fury Warrior on Live. Also got questions:

1) If this new Human racial stays as is, should I change from Pandaren to Human? I boosted as Pandaren because the animations looked sweet (especially with 2H katanas), but these are changing in Legion anyway. Also the food racial seemed of worth.

2) CSP (Kazzak trinket) and GWH (mythic trinket) are probably the only two trinkets I can obtain between now and the pre-patch (I have the latter already). Will these suffice for 100-110?

3) I may be able to get the 715 ring by the time of the pre-patch (at minimum, the 690 ring). Will this suffice for Legion leveling, even if I replace it later?

With BM Hunter a shell of its former self, and not being too keen on pet management anymore (sorry Demolock), I'm looking at something that can strike hard, strike fast, and take a fair amount of punishment. That something is looking like the Fury Warrior!

1) It will depend on what type of well fed buffs that go live. There are some that just give flat stat increase and some that give procs like the tanaan fish food afaik. Just keep in mind that human racial is not that great until like 2nd or 3rd raid tier, so if you want to minmax you should look for a haste % race if pandaren ends up useless.

2) Ye they will be more than enough for leveling, then again kazzak trinket is one of the worst trinkets for pure damage, a dungeon lvl 630 trinket would be better.

3) 715 ring and 735 ring is about the same for leveling in their current version. The proc/on use effect will probably have terrible scaling and you'd only really use it for the static stat.

[Deleted]

1) It will depend on what type of well fed buffs that go live. There are some that just give flat stat increase and some that give procs like the tanaan fish food afaik. Just keep in mind that human racial is not that great until like 2nd or 3rd raid tier, so if you want to minmax you should look for a haste % race if pandaren ends up useless.

2) Ye they will be more than enough for leveling, then again kazzak trinket is one of the worst trinkets for pure damage, a dungeon lvl 630 trinket would be better.

3) 715 ring and 735 ring is about the same for leveling in their current version. The proc/on use effect will probably have terrible scaling and you'd only really use it for the static stat.

Currently on Beta, the 450 Haste Food gives me 1% Haste on a Goblin. If the Food Buff is doubled for Pandaren, you'll get roughly 2% Haste vs 1 on Goblins/Gnomes. It's also worthwhile to add that with the current numbers, 450 Haste Food is the 1st Tier of Food out of 3. The 3rd Tier Haste Food gives you 750 Haste (double that for Panda's obv).

If the secondary gains from Food stay this way, it might actually be more than worthwhile to play a Panda.

[Khelon]

Currently on Beta, the 450 Haste Food gives me 1% Haste on a Goblin. If the Food Buff is doubled for Pandaren, you'll get roughly 2% Haste vs 1 on Goblins/Gnomes. It's also worthwhile to add that with the current numbers, 450 Haste Food is the 1st Tier of Food out of 3. The 3rd Tier Haste Food gives you 750 Haste (double that for Panda's obv).

If the secondary gains from Food stay this way, it might actually be more than worthwhile to play a Panda.

Probably wont stay that way, and 1% haste is about 350 stat right now. You also have to remember that every race will still obtain well fed buff regardless of how powerful or weak pandaren 2x well fed buff is, so the difference is about 100 stat for first tier food.

[Maltore]

I too would like to see FS removed in favor of a spammable RB usable outside Enrage, and generates rage while Enraged. Perhaps nerf it's base damage, but give it a boost while Enraged (maybe the Mastery effect is doubled for RB or something...).

Inner Rage talent needs to change too. Having it usable outside of Enrage is near useless. The damage buff from the talent simply motivates you to use it inside Enrage more. Plus, if you're not Enraged, you should be working towards Enrage (i.e. spamming FS...). There's no point to using RB outside of Enrage.

I would recommend leaving it locked behind Enrage, but either just a flat (lesser) damage increase with no CD, or double rage generation with the same damage buff.

[Artunias]

Inner Rage talent needs to change too. Having it usable outside of Enrage is near useless. The damage buff from the talent simply motivates you to use it inside Enrage more. Plus, if you're not Enraged, you should be working towards Enrage (i.e. spamming FS...). There's no point to using RB outside of Enrage.

I've never agreed with this, even though it's been mentioned a few times. Inner Rage gives Raging Blow the same cooldown as bloodthirst and makes it almost equivalent to execute in terms of damage (before Juggernaut). It gives you a more consistent rotation. BT > RB > X > BT. Repeat. It becomes a staple to the rotation, like Bloodthirst.

[Maltore]

I've never agreed with this, even though it's been mentioned a few times. Inner Rage gives Raging Blow the same cooldown as bloodthirst and makes it almost equivalent to execute in terms of damage (before Juggernaut). It gives you a more consistent rotation. BT > RB > X > BT. Repeat. It becomes a staple to the rotation, like Bloodthirst.

You think this is optimal even if BT doesn't crit? My point was that it seems better to use FS if BT doesn't proc Enrage, so what's the point allowing RB outside of Enrage? Is non-Enraged RB better than using FS to buff BT?? Though, tuning is on-going...

But during Enrage, I agree that Inner Rage feels good.

[Artunias]

You think this is optimal even if BT doesn't crit? My point was that it seems better to use FS if BT doesn't proc Enrage, so what's the point allowing RB outside of Enrage? Is non-Enraged RB better than using FS to buff BT?? Though, tuning is on-going...

But during Enrage, I agree that Inner Rage feels good.

I can't give you a simcraft results to back it up, but in the testing I did if I specced Inner Rage it was definitely optimal to press it on cooldown right after Bloodthirst. Enraged or not. Running Inner Rage was giving me the best single target results in the pre-execute rotation (pretty strong in execute rotation as well since I didn't have Juggernaut) during Alpha, with the added benefit of me not having to hit Furious Slash very much due to RB always being available and not having to maintain frenzy. I think maybe Bigbazz mentioned it, but the more you can talent fury to get out of its own way the better the spec seems to perform. I was also sitting at around 820 ilvl at the end of the alpha, and had a pretty good stat distribution which also greatly helped the spec.

Furious Slash doesn't guarantee a crit, Inner Rage RB does quite a bit of damage and generates some rage to help you get to that next Rampage quicker. This could all change in a second with tuning, and I haven't been playing beta since I've already done all of that. I'll test more when the max level artifact/set bonus premades become available.

As a small side note Inner Rage seemed to synergize exceedingly well the the legendary enrage helm as well.

[Deleted]

May i ask a question to beta testers ? I'm really curious.
Do you keep generating rage with auto attacks during rampage animation?
If not is the swing timer from your auto attacks suspended or reseted ?

[Deleted]

I can't give you a simcraft results to back it up, but in the testing I did if I specced Inner Rage it was definitely optimal to press it on cooldown right after Bloodthirst. Enraged or not. Running Inner Rage was giving me the best single target results in the pre-execute rotation (pretty strong in execute rotation as well since I didn't have Juggernaut) during Alpha, with the added benefit of me not having to hit Furious Slash very much due to RB always being available and not having to maintain frenzy. I think maybe Bigbazz mentioned it, but the more you can talent fury to get out of its own way the better the spec seems to perform. I was also sitting at around 820 ilvl at the end of the alpha, and had a pretty good stat distribution which also greatly helped the spec.

Furious Slash doesn't guarantee a crit, Inner Rage RB does quite a bit of damage and generates some rage to help you get to that next Rampage quicker. This could all change in a second with tuning, and I haven't been playing beta since I've already done all of that. I'll test more when the max level artifact/set bonus premades become available.

As a small side note Inner Rage seemed to synergize exceedingly well the the legendary enrage helm as well.

I have been playing around with IR a lot as well and I can only second your post so far. Furthermore (this probably says and does nothing), but as soon as haste reduces your RB CD below 4 seconds, you can definitely use it on cooldown, no matter if Enrage is up or not. If you use it while Enrage is down and you next BT cycle/Rampage cast within the CD window triggers Enrage, you will be able to use your next RB in that very same Enrage window almost every time.

I can work with the entire idea that Fury is either Execute or AoE, as Archi and Sarri have apparently been suggesting towards Bay, but yeah. I feel like there's so many fights where Frenzy uptime juggling becomes so weird/chore-ish, that it'll just leave a sour taste in my mouth the more I play it, so I hope that this upcoming build (according to Ketsuki sooner or later today) will do something big or at least impactful to Fury.

[Archimtiros]

May i ask a question to beta testers ? I'm really curious.
Do you keep generating rage with auto attacks during rampage animation?
If not is the swing timer from your auto attacks suspended or reseted ?

Yes, you keep generating rage.

- - - Updated - - -

I've never agreed with this, even though it's been mentioned a few times. Inner Rage gives Raging Blow the same cooldown as bloodthirst and makes it almost equivalent to execute in terms of damage (before Juggernaut). It gives you a more consistent rotation. BT > RB > X > BT. Repeat. It becomes a staple to the rotation, like Bloodthirst.

The main argument for it is that it doesn't do what the talent suggests; while the talent says it can be used outside of Enrage, there's precious little reason to ever do so.

The problem Fury faces right now is that it has too much to do during too short of an Enrage window. By decoupling Raging Blow entirely (read: always acts as if Enraged), it would actually address this issue, reducing the emphasis on that window by allowing the ability to be used at any time. This would allow it to be used on cooldown, making it rotational as you suggest, and smooth out the Enrage window by removing that factor.

Further, it removes the problem you've unknowingly highlighted:

• If you're simply using it on cooldown after Bloodthirst, regardless of whether or not you're Enraged, a significant portion of those uses are going to be unenraged, wasting some of it's damage potential.
• If you only use it after Rampage during Enrage, you're wasting the cooldown on it.

Neither scenario wins, and this is exactly the wrong place to be putting your players when creating a rotation. I've spoken at length about intuitiveness and fluidity of rotations, and this is a perfect example of failure in both those areas.

[Artunias]

The main argument for it is that it doesn't do what the talent suggests; while the talent says it can be used outside of Enrage, there's precious little reason to ever do so.

The problem Fury faces right now is that it has too much to do during too short of an Enrage window. By decoupling Raging Blow entirely (read: always acts as if Enraged), it would actually address this issue, reducing the emphasis on that window by allowing the ability to be used at any time. This would allow it to be used on cooldown, making it rotational as you suggest, and smooth out the Enrage window by removing that factor.

Further, it removes the problem you've unknowingly highlighted:

• If you're simply using it on cooldown after Bloodthirst, regardless of whether or not you're Enraged, a significant portion of those uses are going to be unenraged, wasting some of it's damage potential.
• If you only use it after Rampage during Enrage, you're wasting the cooldown on it.

Neither scenario wins, and this is exactly the wrong place to be putting your players when creating a rotation. I've spoken at length about intuitiveness and fluidity of rotations, and this is a perfect example of failure in both those areas.

I agree it doesn't help with clarity as due the reasons you've pointed out you definitely want to use it during enrage as much as possible. But once you get over that and just use it rotationally does it not accomplish the same thing, while being stronger? I'm going to make the assumption that if you take this talent you'll want to hit it on cooldown. (sans execute phase shenanigans)

Since we'll never reach 100% mastery (well, probably not) does this not let you hit it outside of enrage, and be stronger? While still allowing the talent to benefit from enrage when you are enraged. It might not be perfect, but I think it does more or less accomplish what you want.