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  1. #41
    Immortal Schattenlied's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saninicus View Post
    Then why does legions lfr gear have real set bonuses?

    Set bonuses matter little when the LFR gear has such low Ilvl compared to the normal+ raid gear.
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don’t have one, you’ll probably never need one again.

  2. #42
    Brewmaster Nyoken's Avatar
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    I think that's awesome. Thank you blizzard.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    You make some good points. The problem is and the question we all ask ourselves is: why do non-raiders (aka those who either have no desire to step into a normal+ raid scene, or don't have the skill to do so) need the raiders tier set bonuses / trinkets in the first place, if all they would use it for is outdoor quest content?
    This is such a silly question. You assume that anyone who isn't a full time raider, limits what the do to just killing a few quest mobs. I like tier gear for my alts, because the set bonuses can (and often do) make certain task a lot easier. In MoP, the better gear my DKs had, the easier it was to solo farm the Troll elites for the mounts. Sure I could do it with the shit gear, but one mistake and I'd probably die. Once I get some top of the line LFR gear with bonuses, farming them were a lot easier.

    Soloing old raids becomes a lot easierat upper gear levels. At ilvl 660, it's still a bit tough to melt down Shannox before I get Ragefaced, but with enough Burst damage, it's a breeze. Can I get it done with the Baleful gear? Or the LFR cheesy bonuses? Sure! but if I can have a meaniful set bonuses that makes it even better.

    Has a Heroic raider, I don't care at all if LFR gets bonuses. Doesn't affect me directly and if anything, it makes getting useful new recruits that much easier. BUt I'm in a casual guild, we don't have any international laws that mandate we run LFR to get all our set bonuses ASAP. and so I guess that's why I don't see the harm in it.

  4. #44
    I've been a mythic raider. Don't have time any more. I sometimes play with a casual guild that raids normal and does the easier heroic bosses. Yes they're casuals. Yes gear is important to them. They have about five people who could be good players in a heroic + guild but have no interest. The rest struggle at normal raiding. They couldn't care less about mythic guilds getting better gear - gear envy or the desire to be 'equal' is simply not a thing and its prevalence is completely overstated. On the other hand the sort of elitist players who make "casual players are trash" comments that we see in this thread are all too common and about the only response they produce from this guild is laughter and derision about how pathetic those comments are. The important gearing issue for this guild is a gearing mechanism before normal - whether that be by lfr or better by a slower token reward system that rewards normal raid quality gear. The problem is whenever these alternative gearing systems are put in place they are met with horror and outrage by some elitists whom it doesn't affect (just as their great gear does not affect me except when I see them on world bosses doing triple my dps and go yay). Gearing up outside raids for marginal players who want to raid is the progression path for these players - (and not to then do open world stuff but to then raid). Sure other players (both better players and players who don't want to raid) who don't need that outside normal raid gearing method will take advantage of it - but so what - it doesn't hurt anybody except the precious and fragile egos of a few elitists.
    Last edited by irdsyd; 2016-05-26 at 12:42 AM.

  5. #45
    Whether the content is challenging or takes awhile to obtain gear (e.g. crafting), people who are running these outlets for noted prestige and personal/group progression, should be rewarded with better items as they progress their characters. Objectives that require non player interaction and are effortless, like getting a raiding cache from the garrison mission, shouldn't even exist. Anyhow, as someone reaches the top of the pyramid, there should be additional benefits to help soothe future endeavors.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Saninicus View Post
    yea but lets take a look at how big WoD's set bonuses were. Even at a much lower item level the bonuses would make up for a lot of the ilvl differnces. 3 charges of wings compared to one, like mentioned earlier.
    have you seen the first tier set items? they are far less powerful than WoD

  7. #47
    Old God Mirishka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by araine View Post
    But they dont drop in LFR so care to explain how running LFR gets you Tier when it cant fucking drop there? really if we are to have a debate on elite level gear at least be honest about it and not lying like crazy to suit the agenda of the special snowflakes
    Reading comprehension not your strong suit, I take it?
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  8. #48
    Herald of the Titans Daffan's Avatar
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    I have better solution so pvp never feel forced to pve and pve never feel forced to pvp.

    Make pvp gear have crap item level but scale insanely high in bg/arena.

    pvp gear scales insanely high in bg/arena, but sucks outside. no more feeling to do pve - because pvp always has higher item level in pvp
    pve gear will always be worse then pvp gear in bg/arena, but way better outside. no more feeling to do pvp
    Last edited by Daffan; 2016-05-26 at 04:26 AM.
    Content drought is a combination of catchup mechanics and no new content.

  9. #49
    I'm really upset the price of my almonds fluctuated today too...

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    What do you think about the recent blue post essentially saying "We think [Elite] players deserve better gear?"

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

    Reminder --
    We’re sensitive to your concerns and we’ll keep them all in mind as we settle on ilvl values for gear.

    Something worth repeating --
    There’s been some concern from both PvEers and PvPers that “raiders will just do Arena to get easy gear” and “gladiators will just do Mythic raids to get easy gear.” We feel it’s important to remember how challenging both types of gameplay can be. Downing Mythic bosses and earning Gladiator rating are two of the most difficult accomplishments in World of Warcraft. We think players who have demonstrated skill at those levels deserve to be rewarded with better gear.
    This was a direct quote from Kaivax, a blue poster on the official forums.

    Personally I agree. If people are going to spend the time and effort in that type of Raid or PvP environment, we better damn well get better gear than people clicking an "i win" button for LFR.

    This is why tier bonuses and trinkets from normal and above raiding should not be in LFR at all. Why give players elite level bonuses / trinkets for janitor level performance?

    What are your thoughts?
    Better gear hardly matters at this point. Sure, the bigger the challenges the more enticing the reward should be. That shouldn't change, in my opinion. The advantage better gear gives you in legion is minuscule though. That's the way it should be in my opinion. PVP games should be balanced and fair. The only skill required should be personal skill, or how well you play the game. Think about stuff like HoTS and Dota. There's no "I spent thirty hours getting the best gear in the game and now I can one-shot you!" Smash bros, street fighter, worms, etc. All my favorite (the best IMO) PVP games are purely skill based, and can't be cheesed by getting the best in game items.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by OreoLover View Post
    Item levels and uniquely challenging encounters are the rewards.

    Set bonuses need not be.
    Why not, though?

  12. #52
    You don't say? They believe in the game design they have ran with since the very beginning? Outrage!
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  13. #53
    High Overlord kurama's Avatar
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    It's ok for me this change. If you're good enough to do it then you deserve it.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    This is why tier bonuses and trinkets from normal and above raiding should not be in LFR at all. Why give players elite level bonuses / trinkets for janitor level performance?

    What are your thoughts?
    That's your typical jaylock-level of bullshit. Now go and quickly count in logs what percentage of your godlike performance are trinkets and tier bonuses. Or even better, take that gear away, gear your typical tanaan/mythic dungeon crapzors, and guess what, your performance would instantly be equal to performance of lfr heroes. Or even more, get your typical lfr hero, gear him in full mythic raid gear, and put him against you (you being geared in tanaan dipshits pseudoepics), and he'll destroy you easily.

    I have a better idea. Let ALL content drop only one tier of gear. Like, same normal-tier in lfr, normal, heroic, and mythic. And we'll see who is good enough to truly beat content, instead of overgearing it like a bunch of whiny bitches.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daffan View Post
    I have better solution so pvp never feel forced to pve and pve never feel forced to pvp.

    Make pvp gear have crap item level but scale insanely high in bg/arena.

    pvp gear scales insanely high in bg/arena, but sucks outside. no more feeling to do pve - because pvp always has higher item level in pvp
    pve gear will always be worse then pvp gear in bg/arena, but way better outside. no more feeling to do pvp
    And why pvp player must be punished when he wants to do some quests/grinds in the world, simply because <1% of players are idiots who have weird "forced" OCD?
    Last edited by l33t; 2016-05-26 at 04:03 PM.
    No more time wasted in WoW.. still reading this awesome forum, though

  15. #55
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    What do you think about the recent blue post essentially saying "We think [Elite] players deserve better gear?"

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

    Reminder --
    We’re sensitive to your concerns and we’ll keep them all in mind as we settle on ilvl values for gear.

    Something worth repeating --
    There’s been some concern from both PvEers and PvPers that “raiders will just do Arena to get easy gear” and “gladiators will just do Mythic raids to get easy gear.” We feel it’s important to remember how challenging both types of gameplay can be. Downing Mythic bosses and earning Gladiator rating are two of the most difficult accomplishments in World of Warcraft. We think players who have demonstrated skill at those levels deserve to be rewarded with better gear.
    This was a direct quote from Kaivax, a blue poster on the official forums.

    Personally I agree. If people are going to spend the time and effort in that type of Raid or PvP environment, we better damn well get better gear than people clicking an "i win" button for LFR.

    This is why tier bonuses and trinkets from normal and above raiding should not be in LFR at all. Why give players elite level bonuses / trinkets for janitor level performance?

    What are your thoughts?
    Of course better players deserve better gear. Otherwise where's the drive to become a better player?

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeamie View Post
    Think about stuff like HoTS and Dota.
    Those are very different games though and I don't think it makes much sense to compare them in that way.

  17. #57
    I say give them the set bonus but make the gear more bland looking, like it is only half finished gear, especially on the shoulders and head pieces. Examples would be the T6 lock helm, only heroic+ would have the wings animation or T6 Shaman shoulders lightning bolt animation for heroic+. Make the people who do the heroic/mythic tiers look MORE HEROIC.

  18. #58
    Banned Jaylock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaelexi View Post
    I say give them the set bonus but make the gear more bland looking, like it is only half finished gear, especially on the shoulders and head pieces. Examples would be the T6 lock helm, only heroic+ would have the wings animation or T6 Shaman shoulders lightning bolt animation for heroic+. Make the people who do the heroic/mythic tiers look MORE HEROIC.
    I still think the set bonuses should be either completely different like the WoD LFR tier, or a highly nerfed version of normal+ versions.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by OreoLover View Post
    Item levels and uniquely challenging encounters are the rewards.

    Set bonuses need not be.
    Sorry, then don't play snooze mode. Also Ilvl is not a reward. Ilvl is a tool required to do your job(raiding or pvp).

  20. #60
    100% agree. If you complete harder content you deserve better gear/rewards. Simple as that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    I still think the set bonuses should be either completely different like the WoD LFR tier, or a highly nerfed version of normal+ versions.
    They usually are a nerfed version of normal+ versions, that's how it was in MoP anyway which was (arguably) the best time for LFR. WoD LFR was more than easy, half the group can afk and still get everything done. In MoP that just wasn't possible until pre patch when everything was unbalanced. Everyone had to focus because fucking up could wipe the group (galakras on lfr was annoying because of the afkers). MoP's version of LFR had some mechanics and was an actual challenge for those who don't raid. I personally enjoyed it even though I raided normal/heroic in MoP. The tier gear from there was nerfed, some people used it to get into normal in order to grab that better gear.

    I absolutely love the idea of different colors going into LFR. For example, MoP and Cata LFR's had different colors on weapons (LFR was blue, normal was orangish/red and heroic was purple). It was fun to go transmog hunting in LFR, I had a good time when it was like this for sure. The gear was also nerfed as I said before, it was a stepping stone into normal basically. I also liked that during these expansions LFR had some mechanics and wasn't just "AFK for loot!", made it a real stepping stone into normal for those who didn't raid or didn't know how.
    Last edited by Taeldorian; 2016-05-26 at 04:15 PM.

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