[Beta] Havoc Discussion

[Baelroc]

"A dark weapon from a long dead master, hungering to taste blood again."

Hmm... Long dead master... Who could that be?

http://www.wowhead.com/npc=5271/atalai-deathwalker ? lol

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Have you played the momentum build, or just watched?

I find it plays quite fun, though it looks like a pain in the ass and not fun at all on videos.



@ PvP talk... I think, rather, most other classes self-heal should be brought down in PvP. A snare break tied to FR would help with the "get snared and loldie" problems, I believe. But insane self-heals are dumb; no one should be able to out-heal a healer as a dps, and that should be the standard to go away from, not to.

PvP damage in general is also way untuned, as tanks are currently #1 dps and #1 healer, so it's super hard to tell what needs to change when damage is so whacky.

Totally agreed. My view on the momentum build completely changed once I actually had access to play it. Its actually very dynamic. I still think it should be toned down a bit AND the momentum buff given the "Pandemic" treatment. I feel like combing VR and FR to get maximum uptime on the buff would be the most fun way to play it.

As far as PVP, DH is very lacking in defense compared to other classes. Demonic appetite should be an on demand heal with a high fury cost and moderate CD. Either that or we need an additional mitigation CD in PVP on top of Blur and loldarkness.

Stuns are too strong period right now. The way it plays out for me 90% of time: Did you get stunned with trinket up? Youll prob be ok. Did you get stunned and trinket is on CD? You are dead. This definitely has alot to do with numbers though, so hopefully that will get toned down.

(Getting back to back to back hit for 750k Shield of the Righteous is no fun for ANY class)

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

If it cracked you up as much as it cracked me up the first time I saw that one, with the added text commentary on it, then you were almost on the floor.

Worth.

Always worth. Any time i'm watching videos and there's (pretty much) anything to do with a slapathur, i have to step outside to get a breath of air.

OT: As per usual with most alpha/beta patches, I'll ask you lovely ladies:

-What you hope happens.
-What you think will actually happen.

What I hope happens:
-Axing of the new animation cancelling Vanyali discovered
-More tuning of Momentum to bring it in line with the other talents on it's row
-Bloodlet buff
-Prepared nerf; preferably a removal of the CD reduction, or reduction in Fury generated
-Revert of the First Blood nerf or have it brought up to be competitive with Felblade at least.
-Something something Demon Reborn. Or just go away, or get redesigned. Fix yourself Demon Reborn, you're a god damn mess.
-Slight increase in Fel Barrage charge increase (if not increasing the chance or number of abilities that can generate a charge, maybe reduce the CD of the recharge significantly)
-Mayhaps increase the healing of lesser soul fragments spawned by Demonic Appetite. 12.5% of maximum hp wouldn't be terribly unbalanced, would it?

What i expect:
-Just more very basic numbers tuning.

[Manu9]

Has anyone done any searching for the Havoc hidden artifact appearance? Or does anyone have any theories they want to throw out I can go chase down in the beta in search of it?


http://legion.wowhead.com/item=13954...he-deathwalker

Omg! DO EET! <3 - I'll do too once we get back up

[Segerr]

Im honestly so torn about what to play next expansion atm. I hate the momentum build. I really do not think it fits in a PvE scenario. On the other hand I'd love to be able to off tank as a dh.

If they don't make a competitive more PvE fo used dos build for the dh I'm going rogue again

Dude... really?

I have been playing the momemtum build for the last month and its actually pretty awesome and fun.

But ofc its not an easy setup to play, you need a lot of fast moviment and coordination.

[Soulfròst]

So @Unanilnomen what's the casual spec these days?

[Dimzum]

Dude... really?

I have been playing the momemtum build for the last month and its actually pretty awesome and fun.

But ofc its not an easy setup to play, you need a lot of fast moviment and coordination.

Agreed, but once you get use to it, it is a blast to play. Pooling fury and then dumping it during momentum/demonic takes a finesse that reminds of me subt rogues during WoD, which I love.

[Donovan4893]

Has anyone done any searching for the Havoc hidden artifact appearance? Or does anyone have any theories they want to throw out I can go chase down in the beta in search of it?


http://legion.wowhead.com/item=13954...he-deathwalker

Ive been doing random stuff everyday searching for it, that's the only thing I care about on Beta atm is finding it (also finding Kosumoth the Hungering who drops the jellyfish mount thing). I am not sure if all them are even implemented in the game yet.

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

So @Unanilnomen what's the casual spec these days?

On a scale of 1 to Giddy, i'm super giddy you asked me that:

http://legion.wowhead.com/talent-cal...ter/havoc/MnCz

Going with a Fel Mastery/Momentum build (it was Demonic Appetite/Nemesis last week), with Unleashed Power and Chaos Cleave being interchangeable (with a likelihood of sticking with Unleashed Power once i get Overwhelming Power on the Artifact.

Fel Barrage and Fel Eruption for level 100/110 (respectively) or bust any time and all the time still :P

[Orloth]

Has anyone done any searching for the Havoc hidden artifact appearance? Or does anyone have any theories they want to throw out I can go chase down in the beta in search of it?


http://legion.wowhead.com/item=13954...he-deathwalker

I have a few suggestions. The Q&A at Blizzcon suggesting visiting sites and characters important to that weapon's lore to unlock hidden appearances. With that in mind, I'd go kill Varedis and Kil'Jaeden and poke around those areas to see if it triggers anything.

[Donovan4893]

http://www.wowhead.com/npc=5271/atalai-deathwalker ? lol

I actually went to Sunken Temple last week and killed them all.... nothing I had that same thought its the only other thing in WoW with Deathwalking in its name XD

But I wish I thought of this earlier what if our Hidden item is hidden behind spectral sight, so you can only see it or an npc or something with it up? gotta go over the entire world with spectral sight up lol.

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I have a few suggestions. The Q&A at Blizzcon suggesting visiting sites and characters important to that weapon's lore to unlock hidden appearances. With that in mind, I'd go kill Varedis and Kil'Jaeden and poke around those areas to see if it triggers anything.

I did that killed Varedis and all other named DH outside BT, I did sunwell, I did BT, I killed the blind DH in SSC, I went over to Altrius in Nagrand, I went to the DH in that hidden cave in Darkshore... I am running out of Ideas. Havnt tried the DH in blasted lands yet though.

[Soulfròst]

On a scale of 1 to Giddy, i'm super giddy you asked me that:

http://legion.wowhead.com/talent-cal...ter/havoc/MnCz

Going with a Fel Mastery/Momentum build (it was Demonic Appetite/Nemesis last week), with Unleashed Power and Chaos Cleave being interchangeable (with a likelihood of sticking with Unleashed Power once i get Overwhelming Power on the Artifact.

Fel Barrage and Fel Eruption for level 100/110 (respectively) or bust any time and all the time still :P

First Slapathur, now the casual spec question. Looks like I'm making your week!

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

First Slapathur, now the casual spec question. Looks like I'm making your week!

Pretty much <3

The casual build is always in flux. Always changes with the headcannon i have for when i finally get to make my character.

[Orloth]

I did that killed Varedis and all other named DH outside BT, I did sunwell, I did BT, I killed the blind DH in SSC, I went over to Altrius in Nagrand, I went to the DH in that hidden cave in Darkshore... I am running out of Ideas. Havnt tried the DH in blasted lands yet though.

You could try completing the questline to kill Varedis. It's long, and you have to go through the Shattrath intro quest and choose a faction (Alder or Scryers) to see it, but once that's done it should be available at the towns closest to the BT.

But... Do we have any indication that those triggers are even hooked up, yet? They could be switched off until launch.

[Donovan4893]

You could try completing the questline to kill Varedis. It's long, and you have to go through the Shattrath intro quest and choose a faction (Alder or Scryers) to see it, but once that's done it should be available at the towns closest to the BT.

But... Do we have any indication that those triggers are even hooked up, yet? They could be switched off until launch.

Nope we dont, and I am feeling like they arnt all implemented yet, only reason people like me are looking is because you can buy the BM hunter one from the engineering shop in Dal but thats not really hidden tbh.

[Orloth]

Well, if it's that simple... it could be that they are all in Legion content. You would know the place better than I. Are there any places that are particularly Demon Huntery? You could also try visiting the site of the Artifact Aquisition Scenario in the open world.

[nox597]

@Vanyali Would you mind suggesting to Wyndoor on the battle.net beta havoc forum that (s)he focus on re-balancing or reworking the PvP talents to provide the sustain/defensive CDs for PvP that (s)he wants? I keep seeing the argument go back and forth, focusing mostly on PvP, and how the regular talents should change to accommodate PvP combat, when the PvP talents exist specifically to address that. I wish I was in the beta so I could personally say that.

Do you guys think the talent tree(s) should be rearranged at all? I have been looking them over myself, and keep wishing they would try to refocus them similar to how resto druids are, where the first column is focused on single target, the middle column is on defenses (or read PvP), and the last column is focused on AoE.

I do feel that there should be some changes to Desperate Instincts and to Demon Reborn; they just feel like wasted spaces right now.

[Cooper]

I actually went to Sunken Temple last week and killed them all.... nothing I had that same thought its the only other thing in WoW with Deathwalking in its name XD

But I wish I thought of this earlier what if our Hidden item is hidden behind spectral sight, so you can only see it or an npc or something with it up? gotta go over the entire world with spectral sight up lol.

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I did that killed Varedis and all other named DH outside BT, I did sunwell, I did BT, I killed the blind DH in SSC, I went over to Altrius in Nagrand, I went to the DH in that hidden cave in Darkshore... I am running out of Ideas. Havnt tried the DH in blasted lands yet though.

War of the Ancients. I don't think you can encounter Loramus in Blasted Lands unless you're on the questline that involves him, so anybody who had already completed it would be out of luck.

Probably also worth trying Illidan in BT if/when the wall is gone.

Maybe also Kael'thas (could be either instnace), since Varedis was one of his.

If we're just going generic Demon Hunter lore, Magtheridon's Lair or The Lich King. Could also try Felwood. Actually, Felwood has a whole area built around "Spectral Sight," so. And is also the place where Illidan consumed the Skull of Gul'dan to get the whole Metamorphosis thing in the first place.

[Deleted]

Dude... really?

I have been playing the momemtum build for the last month and its actually pretty awesome and fun.

But ofc its not an easy setup to play, you need a lot of fast moviment and coordination.

I 08 before learning the momentum build was apparently fotm. Used it the rest of the way and played some at 110. It's not by any means hard to play. I just find it annoying as hell. This is coming from someone refusing to use the glitches to stop abilities mid ability though. I'm play it the way it's meant to be played and I am absolutely hating the charging around ever 4 seconds. Bosses with terrain difficulties make it even worse. Also using the dashes for dps means I can't just use them to get around. I really really don't like the playstyle

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Agreed, but once you get use to it, it is a blast to play. Pooling fury and then dumping it during momentum/demonic takes a finesse that reminds of me subt rogues during WoD, which I love.

This is odd because I actually played sub for the entirety of WoD. Loved the xo plenitude of it. Pooling as havoc is t any more complicated then any other rogue spec. I just find the dashing around really annoying. It's like having to press killingspree every 4 seconds

[Vanyali]

@Vanyali Would you mind suggesting to Wyndoor on the battle.net beta havoc forum that (s)he focus on re-balancing or reworking the PvP talents to provide the sustain/defensive CDs for PvP that (s)he wants? I keep seeing the argument go back and forth, focusing mostly on PvP, and how the regular talents should change to accommodate PvP combat, when the PvP talents exist specifically to address that. I wish I was in the beta so I could personally say that.

Do you guys think the talent tree(s) should be rearranged at all? I have been looking them over myself, and keep wishing they would try to refocus them similar to how resto druids are, where the first column is focused on single target, the middle column is on defenses (or read PvP), and the last column is focused on AoE.

I do feel that there should be some changes to Desperate Instincts and to Demon Reborn; they just feel like wasted spaces right now.

I have, people get all pissy about me "trying to control them / shut down PvP". Not worth it anymore.

Demonic needs to move back to Momentum, but that's about the only change I feel the tree needs.

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

I have, people get all pissy about me "trying to control them / shut down PvP". Not worth it anymore.

Demonic needs to move back to Momentum, but that's about the only change I feel the tree needs.

OR. Remove the CD reduction on Prepared. BOOM. Nerf both Momentum AND Prepared, but not to the point of being useless.

You already know my thoughts on the official thread >.>