"Basic Income" is a terrible idea

[Powerogue]

As increasing jobs are lost to automation it may be required to institute something like that, but for the reasons you listed it should obviously be a last resort. It should probably be mixed with efforts to gradually reduce the population to a sustainable level. (No, not murdering people, but things like the state giving out birth control)

[Dug]

I mean in more or less words that is what I am wondering.

If we don't tell them "tough shit" now, why would it be any different with basic income?

Because they more than likely won't die from a month of living on the streets, then next month they'll go "wow this fucking blows", get their check, pay their bills/housing and learn to never be a dumbass again. With our current system once you're homeless it's a very hard and tough hole to claw out of.

At least in my perfect world that's how it would work.

[TITAN308]

We do tell them tough shit now if they use their welfare incorrectly. Sure people find a way to game the system so they can continue to get the benefits they want. In Basic Income there is no way to game the system.

How does a basic income work for married couples vs single people? Is there a difference? How do kids effect it? What if two people who are effectively married, remain single under one household? Do single mothers get more or the same as married mothers? (list goes on)

There is always some way to game the system. lol

People have literally generations of family who have mastered this art.

[alturic]

We do tell them tough shit now if they use their welfare incorrectly. Sure people find a way to game the system so they can continue to get the benefits they want. In Basic Income there is no way to game the system.

Oh since you can reply to him like an adult having a discussion, so please enlighten me. How exactly do we tell life-long moochers tough shit?

[Azadina]

I mean in more or less words that is what I am wondering.

If we don't tell them "tough shit" now, why would it be any different with basic income?

Because in the other scenario, the person is provided with money to live, while in this one the person isn't provided the job that would pay for their living. Give them a job that pays enough, and it's a fair comparison. Then they are again allowed to fail by quitting the job, like they'd fail wasting the basic income.

[Gamdwelf]

And that's totally fine. When basic income becomes a necessity it's because there isn't enough jobs to go around. If you're happy living with a basic life it frees up the job market for someone else who wants more than just a roof over their head.

On top of that it means you can live a happy life where you're free to seek your own goals. Want to write a book? Go right ahead you have all the time you need. Want to be the next great painter or sculpter? Go ahead the world could always use more beautiful works of art. Want to get into a trade? Go ahead, you could even make a few extra bucks on the side selling your metal work or carpentry.

Wouldn't you rather live doing something you enjoy rather then just digging holes and filling them up again?

Exactly. I hate what I do now and if basic income existed I could live off that til I found something I actually enjoyed.

[alturic]

Because they more than likely won't die from a month of living on the streets, then next month they'll go "wow this fucking blows", get their check, pay their bills/housing and learn to never be a dumbass again. With our current system once you're homeless it's a very hard and tough hole to claw out of.

At least in my perfect world that's how it would work.

Why even allow them to become homeless? Free housing for all!

[Akelina]

When the robots will do all of our job for us (not a thing today obviously) some people would still think that basic income isn't right?

[alturic]

Exactly. I hate what I do now and if basic income existed I could live off that til I found something I actually enjoyed.

And this is EXACTLY why this basic income shit is insanely idiotic. This guy right here is EXACTLY what logical adults realize will happen.

[TITAN308]

Fuck sign me up for basic income. I'd happily live like a hermit in a cabin in the woods.

[Tyrianth]

How does a basic income work for married couples vs single people? Is there a difference? How do kids effect it? What if two people who are effectively married, remain single under one household? Do single mothers get more or the same as married mothers?

There is always some way to game the system. lol

People have literally generations of family who have mastered this art.

Are you over 18 and make under x amount of dollars? Then congrats you get the cheque. Doesn't matter if you're married or have kids. Everyone gets the same.

Only way to game it is to under report your income which is already a criminal offence.

[saidolol]

basic income>better mental health for ALOT.
Better to feel ok and get some spirit to find/educate yourself to what you really want?

[Azadina]

When the robots will do all of our job for us (not a thing today obviously) some people would still think that basic income isn't right?

Some people only change their mind when it's their turn to lose their job and not afford food anymore. Up until then they are all "I have stuff great, f everyone else"

Fuck sign me up for basic income. I'd happily live like a hermit in a cabin in the woods.

That's your choice. I'll take your job and live in a city, buying all kinds of fancy stuff. See how well it works

[Dug]

Why even allow them to become homeless? Free housing for all!

One of the goals of basic income but somebody, somewhere will be homeless eventually. Fact of life and such

[Tyrianth]

Exactly. I hate what I do now and if basic income existed I could live off that til I found something I actually enjoyed.

So you like the idea of Basic Income? Just clarifying because Alturic seems to think otherwise...

And this is EXACTLY why this basic income shit is insanely idiotic. This guy right here is EXACTLY what logical adults realize will happen.

Alturic seems to think it's an idiot concept that you would want to work doing something you enjoy. Instead of slaving away at job you hate just to survive.

[Dug]

And this is EXACTLY why this basic income shit is insanely idiotic. This guy right here is EXACTLY what logical adults realize will happen.

You say that as if its a bad thing lol. One should hate their work?

[TITAN308]

This reminds me of a discussion from one of the $15.00 an hour threads.

Calculated, a married couple could make over $60,000 a year working as cashiers at McDonalds. Now obviously in places like Hollywood CA or NYC this isn't going to amount to much, but the majority of the country? lol Sign me the fuck up.

Where I live that is like the same as making $120,000 in larger market areas.

[alturic]

When the robots will do all of our job for us (not a thing today obviously) some people would still think that basic income isn't right?

"When robots..." is going to get difficult. So let's go full robot for a second. All of the moochers now are going to have literally zero jobs available. There's going to have to come a time when the government does everything, no? They provide the food. They provide the housing, etc.

Think about it for a second before answering.

But even then, when robots can do everything (outside of select jobs of course) why is money even needed? Don't get me wrong this is way in the future but the cheap-labor jobs are the scariest because it's much closer for food related jobs to go robotics before anything else. I'm actually extremely surprised that burger flippers, fry tenders, etc aren't done by robots right now. We have robots building cars. We can't have a robot with a spatula as an arm? Then spits the condiments, etc? You would literally need 1 person each shift to make sure there's fries next to the fry robot. Hamburgs next to the hamburg robot, etc.

[Gamdwelf]

I don't see a difference between rich and poor kid earning their own way, if one gets handed stuff by parents, and the other by government. Neither did anything to earn what they got. But somehow in your mind only the poor person is evil leecher who doesn't earn anything.

A o you think we should punish families who provide for their children?

[alturic]

So you like the idea of Basic Income? Just clarifying because Alturic seems to think otherwise...



Alturic seems to think it's an idiot concept that you would want to work doing something you enjoy. Instead of slaving away at job you hate just to survive.

Tyrianth seems to think people can't, for some reason, do what they enjoy now.