Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Cæli]

I want both Vanilla WoW (only lvl 60 vanilla) to be as it was and then also Live WoW as they want it to be. This way we would have two versions. If players get bored of one playstyle, they can go to play other one and vice versa. But what I dislike is that Blizzard wants to make Live WoW more into how it was in vanilla and that's impossible. They should make WoW as they want it to be in the future, but they should offer Legacy server too and this way all our wishes gets satisfied.

Minus the old world, the UI (slightly bigger bags, quest icon, first character pannel...), the first tavern music, and if removing everything added after vanilla, what exactly would be different than the original game ? I assume we're only talking about a gameplay problem ? (setting the same spells as before)

[Deleted]

Minus the old world, the UI (slightly bigger bags, quest icon, first character pannel...), the first tavern music, and if removing everything added after vanilla, what exactly would be different than the original game ? I assume we're only talking about a gameplay problem ? (setting the same spells as before)

I think the list would be shorter if you ask what stayed unchanged from the original.

Actually I have hard time finding one thing that wasn't changed. Someone help me lol

[Struggle]

Minus the old world, the UI (slightly bigger bags, quest icon, first character pannel...), the first tavern music, and if removing everything added after vanilla, what exactly would be different than the original game ? I assume we're only talking about a gameplay problem ? (setting the same spells as before)

Sounds like an awful lot of editing current code when you've already got code that does the job written, just needs to be ported. Besides, live WoW is so far gone from the Vanilla and BC days that as far as I'm concerned it's beyond fixing. Have to agree with Sorrxz.

Personally, the "old world" cosmetics are the least of my concerns. Vanilla and BC had an epic feel to them in the sense that things weren't handed to everyone. It was actually the opposite attitude..."If you want this, you need to put in the time to get it like everyone else who got it." Raiding, Leveling, Farming, Grinding...all of it felt 1000x more rewarding then because it took dedication and in some cases skill and gave a hell of a rush when you actually completed whatever it was you were doing.

The community is also a huge aspect that can't be placed into modern WoW. Servers were microcommunities in and of themselves. Everyone knew who the best guilds were, who the best players were, who had what. When Kael was current and he died, EVERYONE was flying near A'dal in Shattrath to see the event and if anyone got Ashes of Al'ar. Forming groups and raids wasn't robotic, you'd make all kinds of friends and social connections through doing so. Hell even waiting with a group of 5-6 people on the Undercity zeppelin to arrive in Orgrimmar could be a social event, spamming /tap or shooting the shit with people also waiting. Several of you might be going to the same place to do something and can group up, who knows?

Warlords/Legion has none of this. It addresses none of this. And that's fine, people are still playing and liking it. But on the flipside, unless they create Legacy servers I'm personally never buying any Activision or Blizzard product/service/subscription again.

[Deathshiro]

Is anyone at Nost open to talk about their meeting? Do we know if that information will be released to us?

It kind of leaves us hanging if they have their meeting and it's all hidden behind an NDA....

Doubt it would be under NDA, they probably just didn't want Kern to reveal any of the tech stuff before they talked to the Nost guys about it. See if its something they can work through or not? Who knows at this point... Just hope its not under NDA

[Deleted]

Well the tweets from Mark Kern only confirm that blizzard are listening following his meeting with them lol. F*ckin' hell... I mean we know they're f*ucking listening!

[Tome]

Surprise surprise, the source code is still there. Can't believe people actually thought it was gone and threatened people for saying otherwise.

[RoKPaNda]

Surprise surprise, the source code is still there. Can't believe people actually thought it was gone and threatened people for saying otherwise.

But ... but ... they wouldn't lie would they, despite doing so multiple times? Never! Have to threaten people that are rational.

[anon5123]

Surprise surprise, the source code is still there. Can't believe people actually thought it was gone and threatened people for saying otherwise.

Yeah, honestly. A multi-billion-dollar game dev, not keeping backups of their code? I saw right through that blatant lie.

[Surfd]

Surprise surprise, the source code is still there. Can't believe people actually thought it was gone and threatened people for saying otherwise.

A database program is a wonderful thing. That is all WoW really is, is a really fancy database program. And they may still have all the code for every version of the database program. But the program is pretty much USELESS without the DATA that goes IN the database. Do they still have all that data, or do they just have the code that played with it to make things happen?

[Thimagryn]

Yeah, honestly. A multi-billion-dollar game dev, not keeping backups of their code? I saw right through that blatant lie.

Blizzard - "What I told you was true, from a certain point of view."

[Deleted]

A database program is a wonderful thing. That is all WoW really is, is a really fancy database program. And they may still have all the code for every version of the database program. But the program is pretty much USELESS without the DATA that goes IN the database. Do they still have all that data, or do they just have the code that played with it to make things happen?

I honestly doubt you have a clue what source code or database is. But I can tell you this.

Source code consists not only of programming language files but also config files, database scripts or whatever assets application needs.

You may safely assume that scripts or backups used to create initial database state are part of source code. So are database patches.

- - - Updated - - -

Surprise surprise, the source code is still there. Can't believe people actually thought it was gone and threatened people for saying otherwise.

Who might have guessed? LOL

I remember how I've been insulted on this forum when I said that Blizz will 'find' sources in convenient moment.

[Cæli]

Sounds like an awful lot of editing current code when you've already got code that does the job written, just needs to be ported. Besides, live WoW is so far gone from the Vanilla and BC days that as far as I'm concerned it's beyond fixing. Have to agree with Sorrxz.

Personally, the "old world" cosmetics are the least of my concerns. Vanilla and BC had an epic feel to them in the sense that things weren't handed to everyone. It was actually the opposite attitude..."If you want this, you need to put in the time to get it like everyone else who got it." Raiding, Leveling, Farming, Grinding...all of it felt 1000x more rewarding then because it took dedication and in some cases skill and gave a hell of a rush when you actually completed whatever it was you were doing.

The community is also a huge aspect that can't be placed into modern WoW. Servers were microcommunities in and of themselves. Everyone knew who the best guilds were, who the best players were, who had what. When Kael was current and he died, EVERYONE was flying near A'dal in Shattrath to see the event and if anyone got Ashes of Al'ar. Forming groups and raids wasn't robotic, you'd make all kinds of friends and social connections through doing so. Hell even waiting with a group of 5-6 people on the Undercity zeppelin to arrive in Orgrimmar could be a social event, spamming /tap or shooting the shit with people also waiting. Several of you might be going to the same place to do something and can group up, who knows?

Warlords/Legion has none of this. It addresses none of this. And that's fine, people are still playing and liking it. But on the flipside, unless they create Legacy servers I'm personally never buying any Activision or Blizzard product/service/subscription again.

Yes but I mean all that old content and reward you're talking about and that I agree with, aren't they all part of the old word, its code, its design ? Just like everything related to Mop is in Pandaria. Outside of character and UI change, the only "thing" that moves out of this content, it's us, the player.

I think what you're talking about with A'dal that I also agree with is tied with the fact that back then there were no redundant content, no 4x+ difficulty mode, there were 1 big thing and the boss itself was the difficulty, and incentives existed toward all the community to work hard (or not) to see what's happening at the end of those raids. Now it's gone and Blizzard is shotting themselves in the feet in my opinion even if they believe having 4 difficulty allow them to keep busy players longer.

One other "issue" is that the game grow too big. Take one game, and expand it for a long time. At one point the total content will be so huge that old content will always end up being a tiny island in a sea of content which is a problem to me because it kinds of change what the game was supposed to be.

So far, they're adding expansion and players go from new continent to new content, which is a good design. As long as they left an old expansion ENTIRELY untouched, it's fine. Despite what some weird forums posts are saying, revamps do more harm than good. We already saw what happened with the old world, now the old world is clearly missed and I assume a lot of players would be okay in stopping the current progression to go back to this old world.

[Bodom]

How is the fact that Blizzard would rather want to give us a more polished and most likely custom version of vanilla an argument against vanilla servers? That's what many pro-legacy were expecting all along. Releasing a version of the game that doesn't support newer resolutions and without battle.net support never made much sense, Blizzard always wants their games to be of top notch quality and even the best vanilla private server out there is good enough to be implemented as an official legacy server. I've always said that they've been saying no because it's hard to do with questionable profits, but with the huge increase in demand in the past few months/years maybe now it'll start make more sense from a business perspective. And they still had the coding, and they knew all arguments all along? Of course they did, people have been requesting vanilla servers since TBC was announced.

[Deleted]

Lol! Mike actually looks a bit like Richard Kind

I might not even blame them, because its apparently a lot more fun than playing retail......

Haha, true shit!

[Struggle]

Yes but I mean all that old content and reward you're talking about and that I agree with, aren't they all part of the old word, its code, its design ? Just like everything related to Mop is in Pandaria. Outside of character and UI change, the only "thing" that moves out of this content, it's us, the player.

I think what you're talking about with A'dal that I also agree with is tied with the fact that back then there were no redundant content, no 4x+ difficulty mode, there were 1 big thing and the boss itself was the difficulty, and incentives existed toward all the community to work hard (or not) to see what's happening at the end of those raids. Now it's gone and Blizzard is shotting themselves in the feet in my opinion even if they believe having 4 difficulty allow them to keep busy players longer.

One other "issue" is that the game grow too big. Take one game, and expand it for a long time. At one point the total content will be so huge that old content will always end up being a tiny island in a sea of content which is a problem to me because it kinds of change what the game was supposed to be.

So far, they're adding expansion and players go from new continent to new content, which is a good design. As long as they left an old expansion ENTIRELY untouched, it's fine. Despite what some weird forums posts are saying, revamps do more harm than good. We already saw what happened with the old world, now the old world is clearly missed and I assume a lot of players would be okay in stopping the current progression to go back to this old world.

Oh believe me, the old world is definitely something I am concerned about, it's just the least of my worries when it comes to Activision-Blizzard trying to emulate it into modern WoW. If all that moved on was content we wouldn't be here talking. I'm personally one of the old hardcore raiders that played for the story and lore, never cared so much about gear. I clearly liked Vanilla and BC far more, but it's because of how the game played back then. The story of Cataclysm and Neltharion, I loved it. That's why I bought the expansion in the first place after all. Finally getting to fight the fearsome Aspect of Death! When it comes to story and lore throughout the WoW universe my only major gripe is forcing pandas on us (that's a separate debate I could write an entire separate post about though). If the game only added content and kept its core gameplay and philosophy, I would still be subscribed playing to this day. That is most definitely not the case.

If Cataclysm, Mists, Warlords, and Legion merely added some new graphics and islands to expand the story, we would be golden right now. That's not my complaint at all.

How is the fact that Blizzard would rather want to give us a more polished and most likely custom version of vanilla an argument against vanilla servers? That's what many pro-legacy were expecting all along. Releasing a version of the game that doesn't support newer resolutions and without battle.net support never made much sense, Blizzard always wants their games to be of top notch quality and even the best vanilla private server out there is good enough to be implemented as an official legacy server. I've always said that they've been saying no because it's hard to do with questionable profits, but with the huge increase in demand in the past few months/years maybe now it'll start make more sense from a business perspective. And they still had the coding, and they knew all arguments all along? Of course they did, people have been requesting vanilla servers since TBC was announced.

The idea of a "custom vanilla" sounds dreadful. You want to add Battle.Net? Fine, whatever, makes it more convenient on the company. New resolution support would come with porting the old game to new systems.

But "custom vanilla"? No. The entire point is we want to play the old versions of the game again. Don't touch it.

[Cæli]

If Cataclysm, Mists, Warlords, and Legion merely added some new graphics and islands to expand the story, we would be golden right now. That's not my complaint at all.

I can understand that the current game changed and has a different philosophy maybe. What's the changed philosophy and gameplay you're referring to, is it gameplay "feel" (not sure how to describe) too different since wotlk/cata, vanilla being the best, and rewards (power reward, pve reward, so gear) being given way too easily compared to vanilla ?

[Deleted]

Kern: "You need to show Blizzard that this isn't just nostagia a one time thing. Get organized, have a BLizzcon group with T-shirts."

What is next, picket in front of Blizzcon with creative signs? "Hell no we won't go! Legacy is the way to go!" and BS like that?

There's an old saying: be careful what you wish for.

[Struggle]

I can understand that the current game changed and has a different philosophy maybe. What's the changed philosophy and gameplay you're referring to, is it gameplay "feel" (not sure how to describe) too different since wotlk/cata, vanilla being the best, and rewards (power reward, pve reward, so gear) being given way too easily compared to vanilla ?

The same mentality I mentioned in my original reply to you. Everyone having easy access to everything. Honestly to sum it up the games just too god damn easy now. No more hard reps to grind, no more socializing, no more having to walk places or wait for anything. Sit in your garrison until its time to raid or go out and do a few remedial daily quests. Classes are so homogenized you hardly need separate ones at all anymore. Need to go somewhere? Here, have a hearthstone on a 5 second cooldown and multiple portals to each part of every zone. Want a "legendary" item? Hit max level! Want to see the last boss in the expansion? The military commander of the Burning Legion himself, Archimonde? Press the "join queue" button after you spend less gold than you earn leveling at the auction house!

Not to brag but to make a point, my guild and I killed Kil'jaeden, Maly/KT/Sarth3D, Yogg/Algalon, Anub, and Arthas with decent world rankings, and with some of the best players in the world at the time. You want to know what is probably my most accomplished thing I personally felt? Farming High Admiral Shelly Jorrik for...I don't even remember how long, half a year or so? The only NPC in the game that gave Bloodsail rep into exalted at the time, he was intended to be killed once to push your rep bar into exalted. Or...if you were a nutcase like me and another guildie...you farm him for 5 rep each kill...with a 24 to 48 hour respawn timer...until you reach 999/1000 exalted with Bloodsail. It was the Insane achievement of the Insane achievement, and I did it. Didn't take any skill what so ever, just a very fucking long time. The sense of accomplishment something like that gives is gone from this game, and that's why I am too.

[Traveler Voltin]

Source code and classic code are not the same thing

[Struggle]

Source code and classic code are not the same thing

They are when you're a software engineer and know the difference between versions, which is the point of having software engineers in the first place. To translate what someone wants into something a computer can read.