Legion - Subtlety discussion

[kalaratic]

so we get between 45%-50% dodge or 60-65% dodge with relics. Which means that we are dodge machines. This is good vs hunters and warriors etc. Our survivability is good. Paired with our high mobility thanks to shadowstrike, 21 sec vanish, and insane heals. we are pretty much overpowered. Heck I wouldn't mind if they removed evasion. Pretty good for PvP.

where are u getting those % from? idk if i'm missing something but the max dodge from both of those traits is only 25%

[Deleted]

where are u getting those % from? idk if i'm missing something but the max dodge from both of those traits is only 25%

well...20-25% is our 'normal' dodge chance.
10% from ghost armor
15% from catlike reflexes
another 15% if we get 3 relix for catlike reflexes.
20+10+15 = 45% dodge. Plus 15 from relics = 60% dodge.

[zaino]

well...20-25% is our 'normal' dodge chance.
10% from ghost armor
15% from catlike reflexes
another 15% if we get 3 relix for catlike reflexes.
20+10+15 = 45% dodge. Plus 15 from relics = 60% dodge.

dodge tank hype take that shamans and warlocks step aside for the rogue tanks

now we just need the buckler back

[Kalador]

well...20-25% is our 'normal' dodge chance.
10% from ghost armor
15% from catlike reflexes
another 15% if we get 3 relix for catlike reflexes.
20+10+15 = 45% dodge. Plus 15 from relics = 60% dodge.

From what we know the relics "trait" are random and the ilvl up you get from them means that you're probably gonna aim for best ilvl vs best "trait". Might be some situations where a specific one is worth more than ilvl up but the main point is that they are random, you might see +5dodge on some rogue but +15 is not something I would expect to happen.

[Deleted]

well...20-25% is our 'normal' dodge chance.
10% from ghost armor
15% from catlike reflexes
another 15% if we get 3 relix for catlike reflexes.
20+10+15 = 45% dodge. Plus 15 from relics = 60% dodge.

I very much doubt they are additive mate. If they were the typical blizzard style of tooltip would read "increase's dodge chance by a additional x%" but it just says "increase's by x%" which is normally the combat indicator for it being mutiplicative of your base chance.

So if our dodge chance is 25% and with maxed out relics it would end up being (0.45x25)+25=36.25% chance to dodge, which seems a far more realistic figure than 60% IMO, which would be broken as fuck when you add elusiveness feint spam into the equation.

Can't check on beta atm, as the Char info is not displaying dodge chance.

[Deleted]

I very much doubt they are additive mate. If they were the typical blizzard style of tooltip would read "increase's dodge chance by a additional x%" but it just says "increase's by x%" which is normally the combat indicator for it being mutiplicative of your base chance.

So if our dodge chance is 25% and with maxed out relics it would end up being (0.45x25)+25=36.25% chance to dodge, which seems a far more realistic figure than 60% IMO, which would be broken as fuck when you add elusiveness feint spam into the equation.

Can't check on beta atm, as the Char info is not displaying dodge chance.

By my experience I believe it to be by addition for one reason:
When it refers to percentages like dodge parry etc, it is a flat % increase (additively) usually. Like running, every % increase in the game stacks additively. Or evasion, it does say "Increases your dodge chance by 100% for 10 secs" a flat increase. However, % increases when applied to spells ( and not character properties) are done multiplicatively.

In any case, I do agree with you that it should be multiplicatively because it sounds more realistic and game balanced. And yeah, please someone check! Big thumbs up if someone figures this one out.

[Deleted]

I know how to work it out, I'll get someone to auto-attack(preferably a rogue or a pet class for fast attack speed) me for 10mins, can easy heal with vial, and then calculate the dodge chance from his/her recount for attacks that missed(dodge are treated as misses). That will give a rough figure, but should answer the problem since the delta between the additive end % and the multiplicative % chance is quite large so no middle ground to blur things.

Just a pain in the arse trying to find someone who can be bothered to help!!!

[zaino]

new build, small change

symbols of death is now on a 10 second cooldown but gives guaranteed crit on your next shadowstrike

kinda meh honestly

[elfporn]

new build, small change

symbols of death is now on a 10 second cooldown but gives guaranteed crit on your next shadowstrike

kinda meh honestly

The only thing that does is make it macro-able to shadow dance/vanish without it ending up a dps loss (<-untested) So now every single time we enter stealth we'll want to use it for that juicy crit...i'd rather have a guaranteed energetic stabbing proc

[Kuroii]

new build no stance bar change is it a hard fix ? is it buggy?

[elfporn]

The only thing that does is make it macro-able to shadow dance/vanish without it ending up a dps loss (<-untested) So now every single time we enter stealth we'll want to use it for that juicy crit...i'd rather have a guaranteed energetic stabbing proc

ha, i forgot to add WE GOT COLD BLOOD BACK...atleast for shadowstrike

[Deleted]

new build no stance bar change is it a hard fix ? is it buggy?

For their ego? Very.

[Smaxy]

Does SoD cost energy still?

[ainurr]

yes, 35 energy

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i think it's bugged, now lasts 45 secs :S

[Deleted]

I think it's a nice change for SoD, at least now it's not such a clunky and boring ability.

I said this before and I still stand by it: they are not going to change the Shadow Dance bar until Legion is live at least, as they're probably waiting for the whole community to give feedback on it. And I agree that it's also probably an ego thing.

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Or rather, they must be waiting for the opinion of the new players, as in to say "see, they have no problem with it, it's you guys that were too accostumed!"

[elfporn]

I think it's a nice change for SoD, at least now it's not such a clunky and boring ability.

I said this before and I still stand by it: they are not going to change the Shadow Dance bar until Legion is live at least, as they're probably waiting for the whole community to give feedback on it. And I agree that it's also probably an ego thing.

- - - Updated - - -

Or rather, they must be waiting for the opinion of the new players, as in to say "see, they have no problem with it, it's you guys that were too accostumed!"

no they'll leave it out, someone will write an addon that pages to another action bar when you vanish/stealth/dance and when every rogue in the world uses that addon, then they will say "here are some ui improvements, we've incorporated some popular features into the base ui"

Dumbasses.

[dloc76]

Does anybody know if Akaari's Soul is working?

[Deleted]

new build no stance bar change is it a hard fix ? is it buggy?

Absolutely not hard to change, they still have stance 1 and 2 for stealth and vanish, it would be very easy for them to re-apply stance 3 back to shadowdance. Stance macros still work for stealth/vanish so makes zero sense that they do not work for SD other than them not addressing it. Either they don't see it as a priority right now, or they are being stubborn. Either way i'm submitting it as an issue every new build.

i think it's bugged, now lasts 45 secs :S

Yer, seeing this on my horde rogue but not my alliance one.

Does anybody know if Akaari's Soul is working?

Nope, still not proccing correctly as before, re-submitted a bug report.

Build is really unstable atm, getting dc's every few mins, gonna do some testing in BG's with Phantom Assassin, but from dueling it is granting a free SoD when you dance as it should and the crit effect, which is pretty decent and further cements this talent for arena's IMO now.

Edit: Ok new SoD paired with PA is actually pretty nice and raises the burst enough so that it is still below Thiefs Bargin but decent enough to be scary with the 45% crit chance on Eviscerate. Amusingly enough it is quite funny sniping kills with SS now in bgs with PA, as the auto crit hits for 250-300k, tho irrelevant in the grander scheme of things

[Deleted]

Yer, seeing this on my horde rogue but not my alliance one.

Isn't this because it has pandemic now?

[Deleted]

Isn't this because it has pandemic now?

Ahhaaa!! Well pointed out, i missed that change!!!

Yep confirmed SoD now benefits from pandemic, whoop!! Far Far less clunky now keeping it up!!