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  1. #1161
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    Its almost like things change and shareholders don't want a massive budget going into something 1% will see because the return is shit.

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    Ummmmm blizzard disagree's.

    http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/23/b...g-progression/



    If this stance has changed then LFR wouldn't be here nore would it be going back to the MOP model.
    The problem is, they can't remove LFR simply because of how dependent some people have become on being able to faceroll content. Literally. So many formarlly competant players no longer know how to play their specs correctly and rely on LFR to even get to see content. And the issue is, if you remove LFR, instead of learning to play, they will move to some other game like COD and play on super easy mode and enjoy the train ride.
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  2. #1162
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by gcsmith View Post
    The problem is, they can't remove LFR simply because of how dependent some people have become on being able to faceroll content. Literally. So many formarlly competant players no longer know how to play their specs correctly and rely on LFR to even get to see content. And the issue is, if you remove LFR, instead of learning to play, they will move to some other game like COD and play on super easy mode and enjoy the train ride.
    Long term that would be better even now.

  3. #1163
    Scarab Lord Polybius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    Its almost like things change and shareholders don't want a massive budget going into something 1% will see because the return is shit.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Ummmmm blizzard disagree's.

    http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/23/b...g-progression/



    If this stance has changed then LFR wouldn't be here nore would it be going back to the MOP model.
    That article says nothing about raiding surviving without LFR. It only says that LFR allows Blizzard to present endgame to most of its audience.

    In fact, LFR was meant to be the Flex mode we now have. Flex mode was extended to Normal and Heroic to make it more accessible, with Flex being converted to Normal and Normal to Heroic.

    As I said before, raiding does not rely on LFR.

  4. #1164
    Quote Originally Posted by gcsmith View Post
    The problem is, they can't remove LFR simply because of how dependent some people have become on being able to faceroll content. Literally. So many formarlly competant players no longer know how to play their specs correctly and rely on LFR to even get to see content. And the issue is, if you remove LFR, instead of learning to play, they will move to some other game like COD and play on super easy mode and enjoy the train ride.
    Ya its totally that, It isn't like the raiding community before LFR was super small and getting smaller so they had to make a mode to justfi the budget/content.

    I mean it isn't like someone in this thread has provided a official statement from blizzard saying LFR justfie's raiding content.

    Naw none of that is true at all.....

    Bottom line we can sit here and argue all day. But the thing is LFR is going back to the MOP model if not a improved version. There is clear reasons for it and if you want to sit there and go (Because dem casualz be bad) all day then whatever gets ur rocks off.

    Just remember no LFR = No Raiding. To be quite honest I wouldn't be surprised if Raiding gets scrapped for the expansion that fallows Legion. If this dungeon system and world quest system is a big hit then I see raiding dying.
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  5. #1165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    Ya its totally that, It isn't like the raiding community before LFR was super small and getting smaller so they had to make a mode to justfi the budget/content.

    I mean it isn't like someone in this thread has provided a official statement from blizzard saying LFR justfie's raiding content.

    Naw none of that is true at all.....

    Bottom line we can sit here and argue all day. But the thing is LFR is going back to the MOP model if not a improved version. There is clear reasons for it and if you want to sit there and go (Because dem casualz be bad) all day then whatever gets ur rocks off.

    Just remember no LFR = No Raiding. To be quite honest I wouldn't be surprised if Raiding gets scrapped for the expansion that fallows Legion. If this dungeon system and world quest system is a big hit then I see raiding dying.
    Do you have numbers to show this? Or is it all just wishful thinking to watch raiding content die?

  6. #1166
    Quote Originally Posted by gcsmith View Post
    I don't understand why poeple think Tier gear in LFR is good, it trivializes dungeons etc
    No limit on crafted gear in legion trivializes them. Having tier bonuses on lfr is good for people who cant get into the higher end raids IMO. I raid mythic so this is a non issue for me with my main but I find it good for my alts if i decide to work on any of them.

  7. #1167
    Quote Originally Posted by Polybius View Post
    Do you have numbers to show this? Or is it all just wishful thinking to watch raiding content die?
    I don't want raiding to die to be clear, Its one of the bits of content I enjoy.

    Do I got numbers...Nope but I do got this.
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...ine-Blue-Posts
    LFR justifies the creation of more raid content when millions of players are able to see content. Only a few thousand people actually saw Kel'thuzad, but millions saw Deathwing. The reason Mists of Pandaria is starting with 18 bosses and adding larger raid tiers than we have had previously is because many players are going to see the raids through LFR.
    But I am sure you will ignore it. If you want numbers tho you can always go to wowprogress and do some math.
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  8. #1168
    Quote Originally Posted by Polybius View Post
    Do you have numbers to show this? Or is it all just wishful thinking to watch raiding content die?
    Raiding will never go away in WoW so he will he will never get that wish.

  9. #1169
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    Ya its totally that, It isn't like the raiding community before LFR was super small and getting smaller so they had to make a mode to justfi the budget/content.

    I mean it isn't like someone in this thread has provided a official statement from blizzard saying LFR justfie's raiding content.

    Naw none of that is true at all.....

    Bottom line we can sit here and argue all day. But the thing is LFR is going back to the MOP model if not a improved version. There is clear reasons for it and if you want to sit there and go (Because dem casualz be bad) all day then whatever gets ur rocks off.

    Just remember no LFR = No Raiding. To be quite honest I wouldn't be surprised if Raiding gets scrapped for the expansion that fallows Legion. If this dungeon system and world quest system is a big hit then I see raiding dying.
    You say improved, I say ruined. But you know, we disagree. Also, raiding wasn't smaller, before LFR was added, the raiding scene was as big as ever. The only reason it had shrunk if at all, was people quitting during cataclysm. Not because people magically decided raiding was too hard.
    For the Alliance, and for Azeroth!

  10. #1170
    I think they should put all lfr gear as weekly quest rewards while they are at it.

  11. #1171
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    I don't want raiding to die to be clear, Its one of the bits of content I enjoy.

    Do I got numbers...Nope but I do got this.
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...ine-Blue-Posts


    But I am sure you will ignore it. If you want numbers tho you can always go to wowprogress and do some math.
    Seeing isn't raiding. If they really only cared about seeing the boss, then LFR should be replaced with a solo proving ground like event. Instant queues, and no one to afk and carry. Win win for everyone.
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  12. #1172
    Scarab Lord Polybius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    I don't want raiding to die to be clear, Its one of the bits of content I enjoy.

    Do I got numbers...Nope but I do got this.
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...ine-Blue-Posts


    But I am sure you will ignore it. If you want numbers tho you can always go to wowprogress and do some math.
    Well of course a few thousand saw Kelthuzad. It was vanilla content that was rendered inaccessible thanks to attunements. No mention of ICC either.

    But like I said before. LFR was originally intended as Flex mode, since the problem was not getting players to raid. But the problem was getting enough players to complete 10 or 25-man groups.

    Don't get me wrong, LFR adds more transmog sets and items overall. But the removal of LFR isn't going to bring down raiding with it. Players always run old content for the pets, crafts, mounts, and transmogs they never obtained. The achievements are a bonus for guilds.

  13. #1173
    Quote Originally Posted by StarGazer91 View Post
    Here's a question: Is the LFR tier gear the same effects as NM/HC/MH tier gear, or it it different in the effects it adds, as if they're compeltely different effects, i don't see much of a big deal.

    It'd be cool to have Tier gear on alts for farming and stuff, but that'd be about it besides for mains, which might give a boost.
    Same just less in ilvl and stats.

    LFR version


    Normal Mode Version
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  14. #1174
    Quote Originally Posted by gcsmith View Post
    You say improved, I say ruined. But you know, we disagree. Also, raiding wasn't smaller, before LFR was added.
    Yes it was. Before LFR less then 20% ever killed a boss in ICC and less then 5% ever killed LK.

    Since LFR over 50% of the playbase has killed a raid boss and finished HFC/SoO.

    If you think the raiding community was even 20% of the playerbase in TBC or ICC then ur a idiot.
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  15. #1175
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    No its being put back because surprise surprise lissening to the small few bitching wasn't a good idea.

    Thanks to the reward setup for LFR in WOD they dam near killed LFR. Now I know some of you would love it if LFR died and went away. Just remember if LFR go's so does raiding.

    Also while not all 5 million + who left WOD was because of LFR I am sure for some it was a reason and I bet you that % isn't small. Blizzard has the data and clearly they see the choice they made was bad.
    Some of me? LFR is the only raiding I've done since Cata unless you count soling old raids, it would suck for me if LFR died.

    Also it's amazing how many people claim that their particular gripe is a prime reason for sub losses. I'm pretty sure there's some claiming that LFR is responsible because it lets people speed through content and then they get bored and left.

  16. #1176
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Oogzy View Post
    Thank god. WoD made LFR the most meaningless, boring garbage that was all but required thanks to the ring with no benefits otherwise.
    Rofl so LFR is fun when you get over rewarded by items? This nothng then prove that LFR have no palce in this game. If you have fun with LFR only when Blizzard rain on your shiny epics then LFR shoulf be removed.

  17. #1177
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Some of me? LFR is the only raiding I've done since Cata unless you count soling old raids, it would suck for me if LFR died.

    Also it's amazing how many people claim that their particular gripe is a prime reason for sub losses. I'm pretty sure there's some claiming that LFR is responsible because it lets people speed through content and then they get bored and left.
    Clearly you didn't read what I said because I never said it was the prime reason. I said
    I am sure for some it was a reason
    Never said prime but I am sure it didn't help.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinndor View Post
    Rofl so LFR is fun when you get over rewarded by items? This nothng then prove that LFR have no palce in this game. If you have fun with LFR only when Blizzard rain on your shiny epics then LFR shoulf be removed.
    Blizzard says its place is to justfi raiding content....

    So it looks like it does have a place.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by StarGazer91 View Post
    Thanks, interesting, I would have thought they'd give quite abit less stat wise, and either a different or far far weaker ability.
    Np at all.
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  18. #1178
    Scarab Lord Polybius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    Yes it was. Before LFR less then 20% ever killed a boss in ICC and less then 5% ever killed LK.

    Since LFR over 50% of the playbase has killed a raid boss and finished HFC/SoO.

    If you think the raiding community was even 20% of the playerbase in TBC or ICC then ur a idiot.
    I know that was a bite at my post. It wasn't 20% or whatever imaginary number you come up with. But it did show improvement with another system not related to LFR. This shows why LFR's removal would never kill raiding as whole, but enough of that.

    PuGs formed for raid weekly quests from Dalaran. If wasn't until Dungeon Finder that Blizzard and the community suggested an extension to raids, since PUGs were a nightmare due to 10-25 player caps and no scaling.

    Thanks to Dungeon Finder, we now have LFR, Group Finder, and LFR. Though Group Finder was based more on the OQueue addon.
    Last edited by Polybius; 2016-05-27 at 07:38 PM.

  19. #1179
    Quote Originally Posted by Polybius View Post

    Thanks to Dungeon Finder, we now have LFR, Group Finder, and LFR. Though Group Finder was based more on the OQueue addon.
    You do realize there is websites that track raid kills right? Less then 1 million players killed LK in wrath when it was current. Wrath had a pop of 12 million that makes the kill rate around 9%.

    Once again you can go look up the numbers. You saw people in trade looking for raids, So did I but that still doesn't change the fact raiding has been a niche group.
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  20. #1180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    Blizzard says its place is to justfi raiding content....
    And we all know that it isnt truth. LFR atualy kills raiding and turn off lot of potecial raiders. LFR will again make world and dungeon content absolote. Effort vs reward is too big for people to bother with other content.

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