Poll: The bombing

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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    The war was not won, the Japanese Army was planning a final blood bath to make all the other massacres pale by comparison.
    Id really like to see the "information" youre basing this on.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    The war was already over, keep drinking the koolaid.
    Nah, it wasn't. But keep your tinfoil hat on.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    Wrong, the purpose of WAR is to destroy your opponents ability/desire to wage war, and hopefully to ensure they never want to war with you again. Any other definition is wishful thinking.
    So our rules of engagement are only for fun? To be disposed of when its to our benefit?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Genoreaper View Post
    Nah, it wasn't. But keep your tinfoil hat on.
    Pretty sure the allies claimed victory already, bud. Its right there in history, plain as day.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    Wrong, the purpose of WAR is to destroy your opponents ability/desire to wage war, and hopefully to ensure they never want to war with you again. Any other definition is wishful thinking.
    Exactly. This right here. You go to war to win and to end it. Period.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    Wrong, the purpose of WAR is to destroy your opponents ability/desire to wage war, and hopefully to ensure they never want to war with you again. Any other definition is wishful thinking.
    No, that's the definition of war in movies and video games. In the real world, things are more complicated. I'm willing to wager I've spent more time in warzones than you, plus I've been studying the history of this issue for a decade. You have no idea what you are talking about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Humbugged View Post
    I didn't use the word justified once. There is no justice in war. War is hell, but the OP asked "Was it a necessary evil?" so the answer is yes. It was evil, and necessary to end the war.

    Jesus fuck I wonder if forums in Japan are full of shitposts like "Was Pearl Harbor a necessary evil?"
    So, 9/11 was a necessary evil then?

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    So our rules of engagement are only for fun? To be disposed of when its to our benefit?

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    Pretty sure the allies claimed victory already, bud. Its right there in history, plain as day.

    In Europe, yeah. In the Pacific, the war was raging on. Learn some history bro.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    The war was not won, the Japanese Army was planning a final blood bath to make all the other massacres pale by comparison. They had no intention of surrendering until the bomb proved they would not have that final battle, America could obliterate them from the air. Couple that with the Soviet invasion of Manchuria and the collapse of civilian morale portending revolution...they gave up when their capacity to kill was taken from them and when continuing would endanger the throne.
    You are 100% correct. Japan wasn't going to Surrender they thought of it as embarrassment to do so. They had no respect for people that did and they treated the American soldiers that did surrender horrible. Just ask my Uncle that survived the death March

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    So our rules of engagement are only for fun? To be disposed of when its to our benefit?
    Ahh rules of engagement, Documents created by bureaucrats and politicians to score political points at the detriment of the armed serviceman. Yeah those things rock.
    "It doesn't matter if you believe me or not but common sense doesn't really work here. You're mad, I'm mad. We're all MAD here."

  9. #89
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    The only really difference about the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was the number of aircraft required to produce the damage, not the damage itself. Operation Meetinghouse was more devastating than either nuclear attack.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Except Japan was going to surrender anyway and the dropping of the bombs was immaterial. Even if you want to argue dropping them could work and so it made sense, it didn't make sense to not wait two more weeks to see how Japan would react to the threat of Russian invasion, and then it makes even less sense to drop two in quick succession.
    They dropped one, and Japan didn't flinch a fucking inch. If they were on the verge, as you and your other omniscient friends like to continually point out, don't you think that would have sent them over the the edge? You're acting like there was some massive lull in the war where people weren't still in the process of dying on a daily basis. So please stop with the *couldn't they just wait a few weeks* bullshit, as if war is a computer game you just press the pause button on to make the killing stop for a short period.

    It's war, W-A-R. The point is to move as quickly and decisively as possible to force your opponent into a position where the only option is surrender. Not to pussy-foot around for periods of time hoping things will eventually work themselves out.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    The war was not won, the Japanese Army was planning a final blood bath to make all the other massacres pale by comparison. They had no intention of surrendering until the bomb proved they would not have that final battle, America could obliterate them from the air. Couple that with the Soviet invasion of Manchuria and the collapse of civilian morale portending revolution...they gave up when their capacity to kill was taken from them and when continuing would endanger the throne.
    I am not an expert but you should read the quote of Admiral William Leahy that you can also find here : http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-rea...-lives/5308192

    "It is my opinion that the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons."

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genoreaper View Post
    Nah, it wasn't. But keep your tinfoil hat on.
    Thats funny, but your hat is showing here, the war was as good as over by that time.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    Care to bring some facts into this? Speculation is all most of what that is, the rest of it is plain wrong.
    Which facts that are not up for dispute amongst reasonable, honest, and intelligent people are you struggling with? That the US made a new demand for Japan's surrender prior to both bombs? That an amphibious invasion of mainland Japan and ultimate march to Tokyo would have netted significantly more loss in human life -- American and Japanese -- than the two bombs did? Nearly twice as many Germans and Allies died on D-Day, on the day, than were killed at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, let alone in the campaign through western Europe to actually defeat the Nazis. There are zero reputable military historians that would tell you that landing on Japan would have been a less bloody proposition than landing in France was. And then there would have been the proposition of actually finishing the war after accomplishing that landing.

    The real evil was that the Japanese didn't surrender before Nagasaki.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    So our rules of engagement are only for fun? To be disposed of when its to our benefit?
    Those must be of such great comfort to those who lose

    Its war, not a game of soccer. Your playing with peoples lives and quite possibly the future/existence of your nation.
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsugunai View Post
    There's no reason to be there or pull off this publicity stunt otherwise. Japan has long been plagued with an identity crisis since America's triumph and I think sometimes we like to celebrate this fact by stepping foot in there with such bravado.

    Don't be deceived by whatever lies people feed you about America having good relations with Japan in the present. Deep down, most still consider them less-than-human like in WW2 and they fear and despise us for everything but are powerless to do anything but quiver to our will.
    You need to seek medical help.

  16. #96
    Oh not this shit again. Are you not tired yet?
    P.S.
    This thread is trying to tell me that japanese populace was actually more in favour of surrender. Riiiiiight.
    I am fascinated by this xD

  17. #97
    Well the bombings certainly gave the narrative of the war a fitting conclusion, which might seem like a trivial point but was certainly lacking in WWI which certainly contributed to the dolchstosslegende and what not. Besides, once people figured out how to build nuclear weapons it was inevitable that they'd be used somewhere, most likely in the USA/USSR war that was only ever prevented by the existence of the nuclear deterrent.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Saucexorzski View Post
    Ahh rules of engagement, Documents created by bureaucrats and politicians to score political points at the detriment of the armed serviceman. Yeah those things rock.
    It doesn't help armed servicemen to have no rules of engagement.

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    So, 9/11 was a necessary evil then?
    No. because 9/11 initiated, or rather exacerbated, a war, whereas Hiroshima ended a war. Starting wars is not necessary for the world, but ending them is.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    No, that's the definition of war in movies and video games. In the real world, things are more complicated. I'm willing to wager I've spent more time in warzones than you, plus I've been studying the history of this issue for a decade. You have no idea what you are talking about.

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    So, 9/11 was a necessary evil then?
    So then please, enlighten us all on how you properly fight a war.

    Let's hear what your decade worth of reading and first-hand knowledge of war zones has to offer.

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