[Beta] Havoc Discussion

[Ustabil]

i sent you my Btag on PM, cant add you cause you prob on another server. im on server 1. Just tells me player not found.

[Vanyali]

Thought so. Maybe in some casual @Unanilnomen builds, chilling and watching TV?

I think even Una's given up on it because he wants nemesis. Or maybe momentum. one of those two. It doesn't make sense there, and really should still be Demonic.

[Warstar]

Felblade is on a ~15 second CD. Generates +5 average fury over Demon's bite and does ~35k more damage + more because fire vs. physical so armor pen and closes the gap for momentum.

Throw glaive does 20k more damage than Demon's Bite + 158k damage over 10 seconds but doesn't generate fury. Probably super inaccurate but if you subtract 75% of a CS it's 70k over Demon's Bite. Also it lines up better with Momentum abilities IMO. Personally I felt like I had to hold onto Felblade using it as a get back in tool a lot more than I do with Throw Glaive.

First Blood does 110k + Balanced Blades damage more than Demon's Bite but costs 20 fury so you'll do less than that because of the loss of CS.

I dunno but Bloodlet seems like it's not too shabby compared to the other 2 especially since it works with momentum now. It also scales with aoe better than anything else for a more sustained AoE unless you're able to reset the CD on EB much faster.

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

I think even Una's given up on it because he wants nemesis. Or maybe momentum. one of those two. It doesn't make sense there, and really should still be Demonic.

The New Casual Build has Momentum in it: http://legion.wowhead.com/talent-cal...ter/havoc/MnCz

[Vanyali]

The New Casual Build has Momentum in it: http://legion.wowhead.com/talent-cal...ter/havoc/MnCz

I thought so. Just had a bit of doubt

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

I thought so. Just had a bit of doubt

Yeah, very disappointed in the moving of Fel Eruption, but Momentum fits my character headcannon more than Fel Eruption does :/ I'll make due with Fel Barrage though, lol.

[Warstar]

Yeah, very disappointed in the moving of Fel Eruption, but Momentum fits my character headcannon more than Fel Eruption does :/ I'll make due with Fel Barrage though, lol.

Going to take Momentum? We'll make a hardcore raider out of you yet!

[Racthoh]

Oh god some of these people. You express disappointment with a spec and they emmediately go "hurr durr you just don't like momentum spec cuts its so hard, you want afk spec noob"

What is this kindergarden? I play sub currently which is so much more complex then this fucking sonic spec. I just don't like having to dash around all the time. Surely there could be room for this gimmick spec. But a better single target spec needs to be made. Otherwis this havoc thing is going to be a laughing stock. At least in my guild.

"Bro you need to stand still right now cus of the debuff. Yeah man i can't. I have to charge all over the place ever 4 seconds to do damage. Sorry"

i'm inclined to agree with this statement. all the movement seems so arbitrary and even hazardous to the players around you. momentum really feels like it should be a pvp talent. it's too late to whine about it now though, it's here for probably the entire expansion at least.

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

i'm inclined to agree with this statement. all the movement seems so arbitrary and even hazardous to the players around you. momentum really feels like it should be a pvp talent. it's too late to whine about it now though, it's here for probably the entire expansion at least.

Pending balancing, it's an *option*. Obviously the fact you can take it with Demonic and Prepared doesn't help though :/ I'd hope for the sake of folks who'd rather not take the high risk and reward talent will be given a better option. There seem to be some fights where taking Momentum now simply won't be feasible though, so i guess that's good?

- - - Updated - - -

Going to take Momentum? We'll make a hardcore raider out of you yet!

El oh El.

If i do any serious raiding it'll probably be through healing. Whack-a-Mole is the best!

Puppy won't let me though. The guy could be put on a treadmill and would probably exert enough energy to jump start a city. Too much exercise needed <.>

As i mentioned, it fits the headcannon (RP) that i have for my character, and since i can't really commit to raiding, i take what i feel fits my character best It's really nice being able to take whatever talent i want and not feel dumb when twatwaffles try to tell me i'm doing it wrong when i'm literally just playing out in the world where those decisions don't matter nearly as much. Luckily with enough posting in this thread and talking to people who've been testing since Alpha, i'll know what to spec into for dungeons n' stuff.

I might be a casual, but i'm not so dense as to hinder my performance where it's needed to make progress :P

[Vanyali]

El oh El.

If i do any serious raiding it'll probably be through healing. Whack-a-Mole is the best!

Puppy won't let me though. The guy could be put on a treadmill and would probably exert enough energy to jump start a city. Too much exercise needed <.>

As i mentioned, it fits the headcannon (RP) that i have for my character, and since i can't really commit to raiding, i take what i feel fits my character best It's really nice being able to take whatever talent i want and not feel dumb when twatwaffles try to tell me i'm doing it wrong when i'm literally just playing out in the world where those decisions don't matter nearly as much. Luckily with enough posting in this thread and talking to people who've been testing since Alpha, i'll know what to spec into for dungeons n' stuff.

I might be a casual, but i'm not so dense as to hinder my performance where it's needed to make progress :P

Your entire spec is wrong you filthy casual god just reading your spec makes me feel the need to take a shower because it's so foul gooooood caaaaaaaasualsssssssssssssssssssssss.


/s

/throws a cow as well

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

Your entire spec is wrong you filthy casual god just reading your spec makes me feel the need to take a shower because it's so foul gooooood caaaaaaaasualsssssssssssssssssssssss.


/s

/throws a cow as well

Now I know how Padme felt when she realized Anakin had turned to the dark side.

WAY TO MAKE ME REFERENCE THE PREQUELS VANYALI, YOU MONSTER.

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/38/38043...82565319a8.jpg

[Warstar]

Your entire spec is wrong you filthy casual god just reading your spec makes me feel the need to take a shower because it's so foul gooooood caaaaaaaasualsssssssssssssssssssssss.


/s

/throws a cow as well

Vanyadoor strikes again.


Too much?

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

Vanyadoor strikes again.


Too much?

You clever bastard, I don't think i could've thought to hurl such an insult.

EDIT: Now that i think about it though, he's not talking about how terrible Havoc is in PvP, so maybe your insult is a tiny bit off base :P

[Warstar]

you clever bastard, i don't think i could've thought to hurl such an insult.

Edit: Now that i think about it though, he's not talking about how terrible havoc is in pvp, so maybe your insult is a tiny bit off base

pvp is life! Everything revolves around pvp and my ability to one shot people because of amazing skill.

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

pvp is life! Everything revolves around pvp and my ability to one shot people because of amazing skill.

Such skill. So WoW. Very amaze.

Yeah, i'll be avoiding PvP World Quests like the plague. I'm fucking awful at PvP.

[Warstar]

Such skill. So WoW. Very amaze.

Yeah, i'll be avoiding PvP World Quests like the plague. I'm fucking awful at PvP.

Eh they're basically just pve quests. Most servers have a strong imbalance of one faction or another so unless you play on a server that has a large pvp population you're probably fine.

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

Eh they're basically just pve quests. Most servers have a strong imbalance of one faction or another so unless you play on a server that has a large pvp population you're probably fine.

I'll be playing on an RP server in Legion, so i'll probably be safe for the most part.

Either way, World Quests are gonna be my main thing along with world bosses. Also, LFR, but mostly World Quests.

There was some feedback in the official beta thread about how Demon Hunters handle out in the open world. I've seen a *ton* of complaints about Havoc's self sustain out in the world. Are people who are finding that to be an issue just pulling more than they should be? I mean, this is probably unlike most of what you can find in the current live game, and the particular feedback i'm referencing says something that seems kind of true to the spirit of the spec:

A Demon Hunter's job is to completely annihilate their opponents, not only to win the fight but to sustain themselves and survive.

Obviously i'm quoting one dudes opinion, but it just stuck out to me, and it (i can't stress enough that this is just. my. opinion) seems to be very much what makes sense for a spec that specializes in hunting down demonic forces and cutting them down with glaives and fel magic, consuming the shattered souls of the foes they've slain. That's the kind of spite for an enemy nearly on the level of Forsaken cannibalizing their enemies if you ask me.

[Vanyali]

I'll be playing on an RP server in Legion, so i'll probably be safe for the most part.

Either way, World Quests are gonna be my main thing along with world bosses. Also, LFR, but mostly World Quests.

There was some feedback in the official beta thread about how Demon Hunters handle out in the open world. I've seen a *ton* of complaints about Havoc's self sustain out in the world. Are people who are finding that to be an issue just pulling more than they should be? I mean, this is probably unlike most of what you can find in the current live game, and the particular feedback i'm referencing says something that seems kind of true to the spirit of the spec:



Obviously i'm quoting one dudes opinion, but it just stuck out to me, and it (i can't stress enough that this is just. my. opinion) seems to be very much what makes sense for a spec that specializes in hunting down demonic forces and cutting them down with glaives and fel magic, consuming the shattered souls of the foes they've slain. That's the kind of spite for an enemy nearly on the level of Forsaken cannibalizing their enemies if you ask me.

It's people that don't want to take or utilize the sustain spec.. ie, demonic + soul leech. Or don't use blur. I can solo most of the blue warden quests (meant for 4-5) with my own sustain rotating CDs. more so if there are little adds i can snag to provide extra souls when i burst 'em down.

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

It's people that don't want to take or utilize the sustain spec.. ie, demonic + soul leech. Or don't use blur. I can solo most of the blue warden quests (meant for 4-5) with my own sustain rotating CDs. more so if there are little adds i can snag to provide extra souls when i burst 'em down.

That's another thing: Blur is an incredibly strong CD, even more so when i found out it's been a 1 minute CD longer than i admit to recalling. 35% damage reduction AND 50% Dodge? That's not good enough for people? GTFO. That's fucking incredible. It has the flat damage reduction for spells and other raid damage and dodge for when you're being melee'd. That's just... awesome.

And quite frankly, I like the idea behind Soul Rending. It seems right that you'd lose control of the Demon within in times of dire need, and that it heals so much *seems* in line with it IMO. It seems to me that Meta should come with a tiny bit of baseline leech, but i won't clamor for it just because of a feeling.

On another note, IF they were to ever add some kind of on demand healing not tied to Meta, i honestly think it should be tied to Demon's Bite: I mean, FFS, it's a Demon's BITE, AMIRITE?!? Omnomnomnom!

[Ustabil]

Gotta admit that Momentum build was a lot better then i asumed. From testing with Vanyali on freshly made pvp toons(no trinkets) it seemed like it was on par if maybe a little better. Granted that meta CD reduction is not working and will up the Nemesis uptime from 50% to 75%. Still i dont think that will make momentum build obsolete since doing 20% on the important spells (Eye Beam and Annihilation) is more worth than doing 15% on everything.