Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Struggle]

I've posted it before, and I'll keep posting it - they never said they lost all the code. At all. The best I can remember is they said they didn't have ALL of it. And that most of it was unworkable now, and would have to be rewriten.

Was the engine written in COBOL or BASIC and they never told us?

OOP has been out longer than WoW has. Not saying there wouldn't be work involved but you're acting like they're writing an OS for a brand new supercomputer. They're not rewriting the Linux kernel, it's a video game. Just like GTA5 being available on the PC, PS3/Xbox360, and PS4/NSAbox the game just needs to be ported to run with new systems. That's it.

[Thimagryn]

I disagree. I read them finally realizing leveling is broken as being entirely from this whole thing. They got faced with the question "Why are people playing illegal servers instead of our game?"

The people who won't be satisfied are the problem, they won't compromise on something that isn't theirs to demand. Blizzard is clearly trying, but they won't get credit for that because of childish "I want!"

I think the effort here is to determine what people get from a private server that the game doesn't provide anymore, and fixing that. Which makes perfect sense - except to those who can't see past their childish demands and attitudes.

Highly doubt it. I've even watched a few youtubers talk about this change and test it out; the changes simply made the 1-60 leveling less face-roll as it currently is, where things die before you even start a rotation. Instead of dying in 2 hits, things die in 4-5. That's not a change towards Vanilla if that's what you're thinking.

[Gadzooks]

Highly doubt it. I've even watched a few youtubers talk about this change and test it out; the changes simply made the 1-60 leveling less face-roll as it currently is, where things die before you even start a rotation. Instead of dying in 2 hits, things die in 4-5. That's not a change towards Vanilla if that's what you're thinking.

I mean you could at least look into the changes and see what they actually are before using it as an example of something it simply is not.

Or, I could read their comments that these changes are just the beginning, and not be so stubborn to not entertain the possibility.

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Fantastic rebuttal. I could ask why you think I am "butt hurt", but I won't bother since you can't even backup your claim on my post being a conspiracy theory. I figure odds are good you won't be able to back that up either. Prove me wrong.

As a matter of fact, I am done posting (sorry to disappoint!) because I'm heading out for the holiday weekend, but I am sure that I'll come back to a condescending reply from you. Stay classy.

Why leave, when you've accomplished so much?

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Was the engine written in COBOL or BASIC and they never told us?

OOP has been out longer than WoW has. Not saying there wouldn't be work involved but you're acting like they're writing an OS for a brand new supercomputer. They're not rewriting the Linux kernel, it's a video game. Just like GTA5 being available on the PC, PS3/Xbox360, and PS4/NSAbox the game just needs to be ported to run with new systems. That's it.

The code that has to be rebuilt is for the servers, not the game client, it's two completely different systems. You pretty much are writing an OS for a mini-super computer, as WoW servers are small networks using multiple blades for each zone/instance, with custom routing hardware and software, and their DBs and all of the game engines and services, like chat, GMs, and the mail system. The vanilla code won't run on modern servers, it's outdated, and would have to go through a major rewrite. From job postings, you have to be an Oracle guy or a C++ guy to work on their servers (and from what people I know who know a little about this have said).

The illegal servers fake all that with MySQL and one or two blades, which is why they can't use illegal server code to make a legacy server.

[Eliseus]

I'm still waiting to hear from Gadzooks on how my post explaining various types of NDAs was a conspiracy theory post.

I'm curious on that also. Your post wasn't even for legacy or against it, but an explanation on the matter. Yet he for some reason attacked you lol.

[Thimagryn]

Or, I could read their comments that these changes are just the beginning, and not be so stubborn to not entertain the possibility.

You mean the same way some people entertain the possibility of Legacy servers?

Different argument, same tune.

[Eliseus]

A fix to live to be like Classic doesn't solve anything. There is more problems at hand. Removed content. Raids irrelevant to that level. Etc... People want Legacy servers for more than just "please make WoW this way again". They want those eras in its entirety and to play that exact content when it is the relevant content all over among other things. This is why pristine servers didn't receive any momentum.

[Molis]

Just got caught up. Interesting stuff. This looks like The Big One for Classic servers.

Sounds like Bliz is genuinely investigating the possibility this time, and after meeting with the Nost team, will arrive at a decision once and for all.

Best thing probably for Classic fans to do now is keep providing data that shows they can agree on a single implementation and there is sufficient demand for it.

How does "no promises" = This looks like The Big One for Classic servers.

[Gadzooks]

I'm curious on that also. Your post wasn't even for legacy or against it, but an explanation on the matter. Yet he for some reason attacked you lol.

Get used to being disappointed, kiddies.

[Eliseus]

https://twitter.com/NostalBegins/sta...18634469670912

New Post Mortem sneak peek : Nostalrius devs did 5200 code fixes/changes (commits) on MaNGOS since 2010!

I thought this might be fun for some people to see. Wonder what they will bring for Blizzard on the technical side.

[Kyanion]

How does "no promises" = This looks like The Big One for Classic servers.

Once the hype train starts it stops for no one!

[Marcelo225]

I hope some sort of agreement is reached between the two parties. I must say I've enjoyed vanilla greatly despite me being in the "rose-tinted googles" (i didnt play Vanilla back in the day), and many players that i've met on Nostalrius shared the same mindset.

I still play retail from time to time, but it just fails to encapsulate the MMO aspect that Vanilla had. The features that were added to WoW throught the years made it a better and more polished game, but it has also lost it's soul, it's mystique, it's MMO feeling.

In short, I'd say WoW retail is the better game from a tehnical standpoint, but Vanilla is just miles away the better MMORPG.

[Relapses]

I hope some sort of agreement is reached between the two parties. I must say I've enjoyed vanilla greatly despite me being in the "rose-tinted googles" (i didnt play Vanilla back in the day), and many players that i've met on Nostalrius shared the same mindset.

I'll take a pair of rose-tinted googles.

[Struggle]

Or, I could read their comments that these changes are just the beginning, and not be so stubborn to not entertain the possibility.

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Why leave, when you've accomplished so much?

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The code that has to be rebuilt is for the servers, not the game client, it's two completely different systems. You pretty much are writing an OS for a mini-super computer, as WoW servers are small networks using multiple blades for each zone/instance, with custom routing hardware and software, and their DBs and all of the game engines and services, like chat, GMs, and the mail system. The vanilla code won't run on modern servers, it's outdated, and would have to go through a major rewrite. From job postings, you have to be an Oracle guy or a C++ guy to work on their servers (and from what people I know who know a little about this have said).

The illegal servers fake all that with MySQL and one or two blades, which is why they can't use illegal server code to make a legacy server.

Which would make sense if they were starting from scratch, but they already have the code. Live WoW doesn't run on magic, someone already wrote the very code you're talking about already for Warlords and Legion.

The game code needs to be ported to a contemporary API and then the programming work is done (short of what modifications they've yet to make on Legion that's currently being written). After that, it's footing the bill for staffing and equipment.

Its not even half as complex an issue regarding legacy as you're making it out to be.

[Relapses]

Which would make sense if they were starting from scratch, but they already have the code. Live WoW doesn't run on magic, someone already wrote the very code you're talking about already for Warlords and Legion.

The game code needs to be ported to a contemporary API and then the programming work is done (short of what modifications they've yet to make on Legion that's currently being written). After that, it's footing the bill for staffing and equipment.

Its not even half as complex an issue regarding legacy as you're making it out to be.

Even with the source, they still have to update 10+ year old code to work with the current B.net architecture. It's all armchair hypothesis how difficult or easy this is but I'm inclined to believe it's not a simple task which can be handled in a short period of time by just a few programmers.

[Struggle]

Even with the source, they still have to update 10+ year old code to work with the current B.net architecture. It's all armchair hypothesis how difficult or easy this is but I'm inclined to believe it's not a simple task which can be handled in a short period of time by just a few programmers.

That's true, and I have acknolwedged from the get go it's not a small undertaking by any means. Pro-Legacy people who think otherwise are kidding themselves. It would be tedious and boring, but that's what programmers are paid for. Modern APIs, especially regarding C++, are a lot more accommodating to engineers trying to update old code and they get better with each release.

Difficulty nor complexity are issues at hand. Live WoW has the server architecture that they could use to implement all necessary updates and add B.Net. The game code still exists for sure as per Mark Kern's meeting, so no need to worry about starting from scratch with anything. It would be mind-numbing work and would require several programmers (along with staffing CS/QA once it's finished), but it isn't as hard as the average Legacy opponent suggests. It would definitely be expensive too in the long run having to port each expansion over depending on what business plan they'd go with if it were to happen. With that said (armchair hypothesis incoming) I think they would easily make the investment back, likely within months.

[Dormie]

It isn't a huge portion but it is a decent amount of who I asked, go on a private server and ask, if you aren't trolled off of global chat you may get some honest answers. For the most honest answers you would likely have to ask in guild which means you would have to play on one. I will let you ask them yourself if you want the server info? I don't have time to poll people I am just going via random people I grouped with some friends and some guildies.

Would you pay 59.99 for vanilla if it released new as is tomorrow then 15$ a month? Or would you take the alternative and essentially play it like an old Dos game in an emulated setting? That is how Blizzard is looking at it I guarantee, it is the only logical way to look at it if you are a corporation who wants to make money. FAR more people like live even with the expansion stumbles than slow paced drink every 30 seconds Vanilla and that is just the way it has become.

I personally enjoy/enjoyed every version of the game except for about half of Cata, I am not apposed to it personally I am just saying it is not as clear cut as people think. Blizzard needs a solid analisys of players to see if the revenue is worth the effort.

I have asked on a private server. Nostalrius actually, before all of this even came up. Private server users are just a tiny part of the potential target audience for legacy servers anyways.
And who said anything about paying $59.99?
The rest of your post is just speculation.

[Addict]

Kern meeting happens, is told no directly by Mike.

Pro-Legacy moves goal post to Nost meetings.

>"They're listening!"

Do you hear its call?!

Listen closely....

Might have played too many c'thun decks..

[Eleccybubb]

So what actually came out of the Kern meeting? Haven't been paying attention to him much.

[Relapses]

So what actually came out of the Kern meeting? Haven't been paying attention to him much.

More of the same.

We got confirmation they still have the source code, that's about the only thing we didn't already know.

[Eleccybubb]

More of the same.

We got confirmation they still have the source code, that's about the only thing we didn't already know.

Of course they fucking have it. I bet they still have it for their old SNES titles like RPM racing and Lost Vikings. Also I have a bit more doubt now about the Nost meeting.