Mafia #70: D&D

[Graeham]

How do I make this unbig?

[Razamith]

Waiting on kur to answer #397, or just give a good post for us to read. Waiting for robo to address interest and posts content "when he gets home" (#389). Waiting for Blood Fox to yell at us or add something. Waiting for catta to become human (assuming similar mechanics, and not faking it) so we can create the universal sheep translator (and hopefully a list of feedback points making up for the unspeakable part). That's a lot of waiting -.-

I'm not against kur or robo train currently. I dont know what to make of graeham but not thinking its very helpful (distraction at best, unreliable if a gambit, and if scum its drawing attention). I'm interested to see if/when/how the gung ho lurker lynchers evaluate today as we encroach on the halfway point today. Looking at the content vis-à-vis count (lets call them cake points, copyright Razamith) and relating to actions for new people to consider. Kryllian has mostly fluff and started the listo train randomly but may have known he would be a popular choice with long living status. There was encouragement to get non-voters to get on one of the trains late (good) and a listo 'hindsight' callout that i agree with but had been said by that point (i think). Jynx was on both trains and used both main popular arguments for each, and rest was fluff. He becomes more suspicious if kur is town IMO. Allowyn has some fluff, and a lot of clarification posts and summarizing posts, something i sometimes get caught doing when i'm scum. >.> I have a limited set of allowyn interactions though due to timing of games so dont know if this is in character or diversionary. And all of those are above the low posters who ALSO have low content quality, which should be obvious enough.

For now throwing my vote here until kur gives us some answers/content to read.
vote: kurenai

[Crackleslap]

Turns out I lied. Lady on the phone told me the wrong date. Wasted time and money travelling! Time to read I suppose.

[Reticence]

Top of the round. Have a vote count.

Day Two - Post #463

• 3 - Graeham: Dupti (#423), Virothe (#424), Graeham (#425)

• 3 - Robozerim: Senna (#367), Kryllian (#371), Celtic (#449)

• 3 - Kurenai: Crackleslap (#350), Anakso (#357), Razamith (#462)

• 1 - Anakso: Largehorn (#362)

• 1 - Mæh?: Catta (#451)

With 24 players alive, 13 votes are required for a majority.
With 10 interpretable votes cast, 6 votes are required for deadline majority.

[Catta]

[/list]

• 1 - Mæh?: Catta (#451)

Mæh....

Mæh!

Mæhmæh?

Mæh.

Bah.

[JynxieJ]

Ok! I'm up after a long day of doing nothing at work! So Listo's flip really perplexed me because I was sure those abilities were anti town. Granted the way Listo claimed did seem to be town Listo but that have been a ploy to possibly throw us off, sadly it wasn't and I do feel bad, however what happened afterwards removes that feeling.

Now onto today, with how close the votes were the last day phase, I'm leaning to the belief that it was a town vs town train. With that said, it's interesting that people see a Kurenai lynch as a way to end the curiousness of what alignment he really is which would bring about more speculation of who the scum are and when and where they placed votes. However if we lynch Kurenai all we would be doing is giving ourselves just two voting trains from the previous day, if he flips town we would have 2 trains to look at and try to see if we see something or if we lynch someone else we would have 2 completely different trains possibly three to look at which would mean lynching someone else and comparing.

Yes, a Kurenai lynch would start a comparison for voting but I lean toward town for him. However we do have an interesting day started with three trains, Robo, Graeham, and Kurenai. What interests me is the self sacrificing Graeham. If noticed when Graeham does this it usually plays into his scum hand, if he was town he would have claimed and soaked a death that night like usual. With Robo, he is another crafty one, however usually once he starts his voting analyst is where I can get my reading of him. I'm torn on who to vote because we have only a small fraction of information.

Since these trains aren't really big enough and only slight pressure, I want to hear from others, however I will place a vote to get some communication going.

Vote Blood Fox

[Crackleslap]

Why? Because Kurenai had more posts then you even did. You literally came in and said "Kurenai's a lurker let's lynch them". Yes Listo ended up being town, but Catta was pretty close at the time (even leading at one point) and you're only denial of the Catta wagon was "it's random".

And look, we're right back at looking at only Kurenai again today...

Because Kurenai should have been the d1 lynch as much as he detests it and people find it "flimsy" for what ever reason. I plopped my skinny ass on that train on day 1 for the sake of starting a train, not because of the reason. BECAUSE I CAN! Damnit. I felt cheated after the day ended. He got away with murder, in my opinion. Lesser so, I'd also vote on some other shitsayer E.G. (OMG LISTO IS TOTALLY NOT TOWN LYNCH K GUIZ).

[JynxieJ]

My vote is subject to change, I just want to hear from Blood since he hasn't been around!

[Crackleslap]

Also, one of my characters items "went missing", I'm just going to assume some bastard stole it.

[Dendrek]

I mean you have Dendrek who wants to ride the line and declare all he wanted to do yesterday is Lynch Kure, yet not only did he not vote on her he stated at least once his arguments were "Not for Kures bandwagon, but against my reluctance to lynch habitual lurkers" So not only did he not vote Kure he never had the intention to do so. So now today when he decalres he was "All for Kure's lycnh" it seems a bit of a joke. But, I mean I'm slightly an ass so that means I'm scum right?

I'm actually slightly more inclined to vote Kurenai at this point. Not because of last game. Not because he's a "lurker" (he's not; he doesn't post a lot, but he's not a lurker either). But because several players are against his train. That said, voting on him would just tie up the votes again. Since I'm not against voting Listo...

Yeah no. Try being more dishonest. I said this yesterday. You're talking about what I said earlier in the day, which is not what I meant when I said I would rather have seen Kurenai lynched.

[Blood Fox]

sigh i just got home iv been onn and off reading. Been so busy at work Q.Q. gunna try a mega post in about an hour. Lets see how i can do

[Dendrek]

I hate the Kur wagon. I understand the end/won last game stuff but trying to say "They have a history of lurking!" as a reason to vote someone is a ton of bullshit. The amount of people who "Have a history of lurking" in this game and never get called out on it and now you're going to try to use it as a reason to vote against someone?

I'd rather see a Listo lynch than a Kur lynch.

kurenai is currently higher than half the players and should be given a chance to improve. If we lynch people before they have a chance to be active at all we take away their ability to play the game whatsoever.

The Catta wagon seems to have died out... and now it's between Kurenai and Listo and this whole thing makes me chuckle.

It's kind of absurd.

No really it is.

Unvote Vote Anakso

Right now, I'm against Kurenai being the lynch. But this is D1. Meh.

All this talk of lurkers is pointless, we're not lynching a lurker.

unvote
vote - listo

I'm actually slightly more inclined to vote Kurenai at this point [...] because several players are against his train.

Clarifying what I meant by this last comment.

I DID NOT VOTE KURENAI in that situation because if I had tied up the trains, I would have been passing off the responsibility of pushing one of them into the lead onto someone else. And since both were at around L-5 at the time, and we were 5 hours away from the day's deadline, if we didn't put solid pressure on one of them, it was entirely possible we wouldn't have gotten a claim/defense or a lynch. So despite preferring to lynch Kurenai, I made the right call in that situation.

I took a stand yesterday to insure a lynch. I did so twice, and people are calling me scummy for it. If I hadn't been around, we probably wouldn't have gotten a lynch yesterday at all. If you doubt that, look at the people who were active around the end of day yesterday and how many of them were willing to switch their votes to secure a lynch. Dupti and Arialla were not willing to switch. They had a town read on Listo. That's fine. But they would have allowed us to get a no-lynch over it. And despite them and Uggor moving their votes to Kurenai, Listo was still in the lead. Listo needed 1 more vote near the end of day to be minority lynched. Kurenai needed 3.

I think at least a few of the people pushing the "Listo lynch was scum driven" argument are themselves scum. It's a stupidly dense argument. Uggor gave some half-decent reasons why scum might drive it, but he missed one super obvious non-retarded reason why he was wrong: Pushing Listo got us a lynch. Pushing Kurenai might not have.

[Virothe]

Yeah no. Try being more dishonest. I said this yesterday. You're talking about what I said earlier in the day, which is not what I meant when I said I would rather have seen Kurenai lynched.

Lmfao, Oh sorry!

I never meant to make you back track or nit-pick the semantics of "This day" over "That day"

But nice to see you have a real solid defense of "I said it, I did but it wasn't today! It was yesterday and I promise I didn't mean it the way I said It!"

I mean how dare I point out the contradiction in your statements! I'm just a real bastard!

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Clarifying what I meant by this last comment.

I mean try to explain it away all you want but 2+2 = 4

You said yesterday you were not interested in a Kure wagon, Today you declared that's what you wanted to happen yesterday. It's a pretty clear contradiction and you trying to talk your way out of it for what reason here? No one seemed to care, no one else was questioning it. It was just me and I'm "scum" so the fact you felt the need to dredge it back up makes me feel like I hit a nerve here.

[Dendrek]

Don't pretend you know how to add. For you, 2+2 = apple.

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You are right though. I should have known better than to respond to you.

Virothe, known as the quacken,
Is the bane of reasoned men.

[KurenaiXIII]

I'd like to think I've been pretty consistent when it comes to wanting people to not fling insults at each other in these games no matter my alignment...

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For the former question I simply find it odd that Listo claimed and still ended up getting lynched whilst Kurenai got a free pass. It feels very much like the situation with Dupti in the recent game when he was scum and it made a lot of sense to lynch him but scum kept him along for as long as possible. So that ties in with your second question, I suppose. Consider it a hunch.

I may be wrong, of course - but honestly I'd rather not have every future day phase overshadowed by the inevitable doubt that will be cast on Kurenai. I'd also urge people to be very cautious when it comes to their reads on me because...well, not to brag but people have read me as town whilst I'm scum and scum whilst I'm town.

Do you think Listo claimed to pull attention off of me? But why would he do that? He turned out to be town. Honestly, I thought he was town too, but I thought his claim... well, as I stated, I didn't want to claim on D1, because frankly I'm tired of D1 claims in general, but IMO he should have been a bit smarter about his claim. Nothing about his role would have sounded off except for the 'hiding actions' part, and IMO he could have left that out and that might have not drawn so much attention to him.

And you're right. I shouldn't resort to insults. Anakso, I apologize for the tone and wording of those posts.

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So for lore:
A 'gibbering orblet' most likely an arcane spell "Arcane Eye" that functions similar to WoW's "eye of kilrogg", a floating watching/seeing eye. While usually invisible and simply sends visual information, it isn't a far stretch to fit to game mechanics. It could also be a beholder, a thoroughly evil floating eye creature that can cast spells, but I'd expect the description to be different. Of course it could be something else entirely.
A 'pseudodragon' is a tiny dragon-like creature usually a wizard familiar (a magical pet) that can sometimes cast their spells for them, attack/defend, or gather info. In D&D universe a pseudodragon is usually always good aligned, but A) it changed to neutral in one specific version and B) we cant take anything for granted here.

Neither of these are big reveals or more than what was likely assumed, but there you go.

------

I'd like to know from Kurenai who you think is being disingenuous/manipulating vs who you just disagree/angry with.

Who do I think is being manipulating? Anakso is one. I find it kind of ironically funny that when Rixis voted him for not having posted, I actually came to his defense about it. As others pointed out, he had less activity than I did, and there were others (not just Arialla, though he's just the most convienient example usually) that also had less activity. Catta is another I'm not sure about--whether he has a grudge from the last two games or whatnot. Crackleslap... mmm. I actually don't think he's trying to be manipulative, but trying to force a claim out of me today because I didn't claim D1 seems to be pushing real hard, especially when the previous train wasn't based upon anything that I did in-game. It's not like someone claimed to see me visit someone who died and Crackle is trying to get to the bottom of that; that I would understand.

@Xanjori I think the thought process of 'you won last game, therefore you should die early' is faulty at best. I personally think games should begin and end within their games. Yes, it's impossible not to look at past games and see how someone plays/try to determine how someone plays, but unless someone has done blatantly out-of-game things (I'm thinking about the crap Silkku pulled, for example), then I don't think previous-game happenings should affect current games at all.

Saying a reason is 'as valid' as any other doesn't mean it's valid. No one voted Allowyn for winning last game, either. Well, I did, but clearly as a joke, as I tried to make clear with my unvote. It isn't 'your fault' that I managed to survive through idling--hell, as I noted very publically in the posts I could make during that game I was constantly surprised that I never got axed for it. I did feel bad about the idling, all the more so because it wasn't a gamed tactic; it was just the way things fell out due to RL.

[Graeham]

Unvote

I'll take another look through the thread and then decide what I want to do with my vote.

[Virothe]

Don't pretend you know how to add. For you, 2+2 = apple.

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You are right though. I should have known better than to respond to you.

Damn bro, that's cold! I mean it's almost like you don't have a real defense and have to result to minor and inept insults.... But nah that can't be it.

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Unvote

I'll take another look through the thread and then decide what I want to do with my vote.

Oh oh oh! Make sure you vote for me! Since after I asked you to declare why I would be scum you went and so eloquently explained why.... Oh wait... That was just in a dream and you haven't given and answer for that yet.

[Graeham]

Oh oh oh! Make sure you vote for me! Since after I asked you to declare why I would be scum you went and so eloquently explained why.... Oh wait... That was just in a dream and you haven't given and answer for that yet.

I think not. Especially when your own reasoning is very vague. It's rather baffling that such a competent player can claim to have 'no other leads' on D2.

[Blood Fox]

remeber when i said " in an hour?" yeah thats gone so well lets at least attempt to start.

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Listo flipping town also means we need to be careful making assumptions about abilities, though interested how the polymorph affect could have been an asset to us.

yadda yadda trying to deduce the win condition by roles in a non standard game is a recipe for a disaster.

Why the hell would I claim when the train on me had nothing to do with this game? I have no interest in bowing to outside-the-game reasons for votes to make me claim.

bitch more about a day 1 lynch more. Please cry tears for me. At least then you'll be more interesting than a fly.

Having such a contested lynch is interesting, however, and can give us a more educated guess as to who to go for, but going for Kurenai is just stupid in my opinion. In fact, I would posit that people who want to go for Kurenai today are themselves scum looking for an easy excuse to lynch. Other than that, I would be asking the question "why not kurenai or listo?" People who avoided both trains are probably the most suspicious in these circumstances, since nearly every player was on one train or the other, avoiding both kind of screams "don't want to get caught with my teammates."

my only other thought is that while you may be right in most sorts. Why would skum push on Kurenai now? it would be much better for the skum if they let the suspicion build on him. Especially if they have any sort of watching ability. That said I HIGHLY doubt this kurenai train is skum.

[dupti]

I do. I have in the past. Like I said, I have my reasons. When people push a lynch on me it's almost always because they're scum looking for an easy lynch - I've resigned myself to the idea of being lynched in past games and self voted as town. Please do not pretend as if that isn't the case because it's deceptive.

I don't think you do.

I never claimed you never self voted as town. I said that self voting as town is anti town. But now that you mention it I can remember the last time you self voted as town, but you seem to imply it has happened multiple times, which games are you referring to?

Not sure what to make of most people simply ignoring you, especially considering some of the players will usually always vote on someone for self voting (Celtic comes to mind).

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And I would still like you to name the players you are calling out for 'defending' Kurenai, because otherwise it just seems like you're trying to avoid confrontration. This was my initial reason for voting, Allowyn did the exact same thing which I questioned as well but since you were around I decided to pressure you first to get a better read on you and I'm pretty sure Virothe knew what I tried to do, so I'm not sure why you find his vote suspicious.

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@Dendrek, if you'd like to just sit back this game, just vote with me plx

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@kurenai I have to admit I am not a fan of you still not having a vote out. I'd like to see you do some scumhunting instead of defending yourself.