Upcoming talent change gutting

[Coffeh]

So it's official. Talent swapping items are another raid tax.

Doesn't effect me too much, just another thing to buy on top of normal raid reagents. I'm fine with this.

It's going to be great getting kicked from raids because you don't have the tome. I can see the group finder already '...Tome required!'

[Vanhyali]

Vanilla and earlier expansions aka Burning Crusade didn't have a "you can respec whenever and whereever you want"-option.

You can't really compare the talents back then with the ones we have now. However i do agree that it isn't really desirable to swap around as much as we do now, but the truth is they did build a talent system that works with the idea of not having cookie cutter build but giving us the options to adapt to the situations we are faced with.

[Relapses]

It's going to be great getting kicked from raids because you don't have the tome. I can see the group finder already '...Tome required!'

I mean, I think it'll be the same groups that kick players for not bringing 125 food, flasks or augment runes...which aren't many. I really don't think it'll be that severe, it literally just becomes another thing you buy off the AH and keep in your bags for raiding.

[Coffeh]

I mean, I think it'll be the same groups that kick players for not bringing 125 food, flasks or augment runes...which aren't many. I really don't think it'll be that severe, it literally just becomes another thing you buy off the AH and keep in your bags for raiding.

At probably a couple hundred gold a pop, Blizzard will be raking in that $$$ from people having to buy and sell Tokens.

[Relapses]

At probably a couple hundred gold a pop, Blizzard will be raking in that $$$ from people having to buy and sell Tokens.

I mean, if you wanna tin foil hat it... sure. But we don't know how easy/difficult gold will be to farm in Legion so time will tell how it pans out.

[darkwarrior42]

It's going to be great getting kicked from raids because you don't have the tome. I can see the group finder already '...Tome required!'

I really doubt that's going to happen. I don't see many PUGs inspecting players between pulls to make sure every character has the ideal talent setup for that fight, and in guilds you're more likely to see them pooling resources to make the group items available.

[RobertoCarlos]

Oh how nice of blizzard giving us a whole 60secs when we use the tome to swap around our talents mid raid. Cant wait for the raid leader call for everyone to be ready and switch all our talents at once, so much class fantasy such wow

[Deleted]

It's going to be great getting kicked from raids because you don't have the tome. I can see the group finder already '...Tome required!'

Sure, I can see that happening in mythic groups. Enywhere else? Nope.

[BiggestNoob]

Sure, I can see that happening in mythic groups. Enywhere else? Nope.

You're not playing this game, why are you even commenting about this?

[kamuimac]

I really doubt that's going to happen. I don't see many PUGs inspecting players between pulls to make sure every character has the ideal talent setup for that fight, and in guilds you're more likely to see them pooling resources to make the group items available.

are you joking ? if someone will be on dps charts doin 50 % of others dps ofc they will or they will simply kick him without checking with comment "git gud" , if they will see in mythic + dungeon someone being subpar ofc they will remove him nobody will risk their keystone - and especially that all good players will know about this shit so it will be normal practice in good groups to insect one another if people change stuff to no hinder other people

we are not talking about 5-10 % difference liek it is atm we are talking about 30-50% variation based on ST vs aoe talents -_-

[Coffeh]

are you joking ? if someone will be on dps charts doin 50 % of others dps ofc they will or they will simply kick him without checking with comment "git gud" , if they will see in mythic + dungeon someone being subpar ofc they will remove him nobody will risk their keystone - and especially that all good players will know about this shit so it will be normal practice in good groups to insect one another if people change stuff to no hinder other people

we are not talking about 5-10 % difference liek it is atm we are talking about 30-50% variation based on ST vs aoe talents -_-

Hey, someone who understands the WoW playerbase. Anyway, this is why I don't think the change will make it Live. It would be subscription suicide. Blizzard thought they had backlash from flying in WoD? This will be 100x worse.

[Normie]

Some people don't play the game, that doesn't mean the game should be ruined for those who do.

This argument is actually even worse than that. This change has no impact on you, yet negatively impacts other people, so at best you're saying "fuck everyone else, I'm the only person who matters."

"The game should be ruined" sounds a little hyperbolic.

Catering to the min-maxers is a rathole that Blizzard sometimes goes down, but hopefully not this expansion.

[BiggestNoob]

"The game should be ruined" sounds a little hyperbolic.

Catering to the min-maxers is a rathole that Blizzard sometimes goes down, but hopefully not this expansion.

It's not hyperbolic, as it actually ruins the game, and doesn't just affect min-maxers. Tons of people are actually not trying out different talents in the beta or playing at all because of it.

In fact, it's an unnecessary and destructive annoyance for min-maxers, as we'll easily have the resources to carry around big fat stacks of these tomes to change our talents whenever. But most people won't. Most people don't spend 100g on consumes to do content like we do, so being frustrated by their bad choices and spending unnecessary time flying around will adversely affect everyone. The people who keep making this "meh, I never change talents" argument haven't played Legion. Your talents aren't small differences like they are in WoD. They're massive. They were designed to be switched based on what you're doing. That design hasn't gone away despite this unnecessary limitation. You're going to have a lot of trouble dealing with multiple mobs if you aren't specced right, and when the game forces you to do that, and then turns around and requires you to deal with a completely different situation, which it tends to do, you're going to have a bad day.

Let's say you're doing your artifact quest. You realize you need more survivability or more AoE. Well shit, you're in an instance and it's not a safe space, so you can't change your talents.

Let's say you're queuing for dungeons while questing because that never happens, right? You're running around questing with a talent that's worthless in dungeons, and now you're stuck with it.

You're questing and now you have to kill a mob that you can't kill with your current build. You could easily kill it with just 2 talent changes. So you have to go back to Dalaran, spec, then fly back out, and continue doing your questing. Great design, though, right? What value was added to the game by that detour?

So if you're truly one of those people who never changes talents, even in Legion, this change has 0 impact to your gameplay. It makes no sense how you could justify it as "catering to min-maxers." In what way is something you don't do and have already claimed you won't do being friendly to dynamic play "catering to min-maxers"? Are we next going to cut mythics, and make health pin at 1 HP because staying alive and doing content that you can't do is "catering to min-maxers"? And why should there be RNG loot? Why can't you just hit a button and have full 970 gear and be finished for the expansion? Going out and doing content to get upgrades is definitely "catering to min-maxers."