Tier gear is back into lfr!!

[Deleted]

I'm actually content with LFR.

And I haven't looked at it too deeply yet.

But, is normal mode, as the number 2 of 4 difficulties, still in?

Because literally, it's the most useless mode overall IMO, a simple ilvl gate, completely identical to heroic except in numbers.(Only plus is transmogs I suppose)

It could use a GTFO and the tuning could simply take its place from the current heroic mode and we could simply just get rid of some of that inflating crap and actually have a more reasonable progression path.

[Jtbrig7390]

wowhead.com/achievement=10019 Attained by 63% of profiles
wowhead.com/achievement=9680 Attained by 44% of profiles
63% - 44% = 19% participating in LFR only. As I said, just a whining vocal minority.

Flex technology and new normal gave even the most casual guilds a possibility to not care about raid composition or attendance, thus greatly improving raiding for everybody. And now Blizz are trying to water it down to please lazy entitled whiners, who want to get everything without any effort.

You do realize that the Wowhead attained by profiles isn't the same as all the players in WoW right? Those are profiles that are linked/made on WoWhead with there wow profile attached.

Otherwise this has only been looted from Sha of Angry 3k times.... http://www.wowhead.com/item=89317/claw-of-anger

I am 100% sure more then 3k people in WoW have that mount.

Edit: Or that this has only been looted 19k times.... http://www.wowhead.com/item=43345/dragon-hide-bag

My point proven that Wowhead does not track all kills/looting in WoW.

[Jtbrig7390]

They're talking about this as well on the Reddit subforum today. The reaction has been, from Mythic raiders down to casuals, overwhelmingly positive. The Mythic raiders mostly look at it as a bonus chance to complete their tier sets early and plan on doing it as guild groups to make it go as quickly as possible.

That's a refreshing view to see, taking it as an opportunity rather than lamenting it as "forced". Seems it turns out that most of the angst against LFR is to be found among MMOC midcores.

Its always parts of the middle group who bitch and moan.

They bitched about valor being a requirement and like I said to that if you need these things to progress (5+ months after the content is out). The problem isn't the content its the player.

Its just as bad as those who bitch about raids getting a nerf even tho they been on it 5 months and are only 2 kills in.

To be clear not saying its all of the middle ground who bitch, that's just where most of the bitching comes from.

The first reply in that thread says it all

As a mythic raider, thank god.
Tired of getting assblasted by RNG with tier drops and being useless for weeks because my class/spec is literally nonfunctional without 4pc.
Never found the "but now Blizzard is making me run LFR to be competitive in mythic proc" argument to be particular convincing. Play the game as much or as little as you want. It isn't blizzard's job to save you from yourself lol.
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[Rogalicus]

You do realize that the Wowhead attained by profiles isn't the same as all the players in WoW right? Those are profiles that are linked/made on WoWhead with there wow profile attached.

Otherwise this has only been looted from Sha of Angry 3k times....

I am 100% sure more then 3k people in WoW have that mount.

Edit: Or that this has only been looted 19k times....

My point proven that Wowhead does not track all kills/looting in WoW.

You seem to mix up loot and achievements. They get loot statistics from special addon called Wowhead Looter, I doubt everyone uses it. Achievement statistics are grabbed from your armory with an API usage, so they are much more representative. Also, their sample base is high enough to get valid percentage (not overall loot count that you tried to use).

[chooi]

I don't care really.

It doesn't hurt me in any way and it seems to make a lot of people quite happy. LFR gear will still be weaker than Normal+ raid gear but LFR players won't feel too gimped by not having the set bonuses that sometimes make or break classes with Blizzard's current design. It's also quite nice for gearing up alts or getting that last missing piece on your main char. Mythic raid gear also got the better visuals, so I'm fine.

[SilverCoin]

I think it´s a good decision to go back to MoP style LFR... i can just speak for myself but after quit raiding with the end of WotLK and just level to max in Cata it was encouraging to get tier gear or even the same gear.. just with lower ilvl in LFR... and I made some connection over that so I became a "regular" raider again with a new guild.

[Usagi Senshi]

I think it´s a good decision to go back to MoP style LFR... i can just speak for myself but after quit raiding with the end of WotLK and just level to max in Cata it was encouraging to get tier gear or even the same gear.. just with lower ilvl in LFR... and I made some connection over that so I became a "regular" raider again with a new guild.

Also, keeping the tier gear with the same look will keep people subbed and trying to finish sets longer. As a former raider this pleases me and will actually get me to stay subbed more often as I have no intention of joining a static raid team again for a very long time after 9+ years of playing on someone's schedule.

I will be using my b.net friends list for Mythic + dungeons though and set a couple nights up sometimes.

[roahn the warlock]

I'm 7/13 mythic and I only use the groupfinder tool, so this whole "I don't have time to be in a guild" is bullshit. Really. If I can pug mythic, you can pug normal.

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I don't care really.

It's also quite nice for gearing up alts or getting that last missing piece on your main char. Mythic raid gear also got the better visuals, so I'm fine.

It is the -worst- for gearing up alts when you absolutely can't stand LFR. I hope to the god almighty that doing mythic+ dungeons is a better option. Otherwise I guess I'm just playing 1 class this entire x pack. Because god damn I hate LFR.

[Swarzey]

Mythic+, Professions, even World Quests should be better options for gearing alts. My distaste for LFR comes from the fact that during ToT and SoO, there was pretty much no other way to gear my alts. Was glad I didn't have to do any LFR on them for WoD, not happy it was Ashran or Tanaan, but was excited for Legion to have such a variety of paths to take with fulfilling gameplay and rewards.

Guess that seems to be in doubt.

[Deleted]

Why don't we break down the problems people have with this change / revert.
The 2 main arguments against bringing it back are:

1) LFR players don't deserve real tier because the content has no challenge
2) I'm a real raider I don't want to be forced to do LFR to complete my tier

1 first. Let's first of all clarify that as long as you're prepared to spend an hour or more in LFR, there is no challenge. It is possible to complete with the whole group auto attacking and 1 person doing the job once you get 10 stacks of determination. You can't do anything about afkers because some people right click the boss and leave, technically still fighting the boss.

I think this is the only compelling argument, simple effort reward ethos that every game ever (almost) follows.
HOWEVER I think it's still outweighed by: how much people will 'enjoy' the better loot, it will be easier to transition to normal mode because you aren't drastically weaker, it will be easier to gear up alts.

Number 2 is a much weaker argument.
Back when LFR was first released, it was a very real concern that a raider of the top difficulties would feel like they had to do LFR to compete with others.
With the gating of LFR wings, the multiple other difficulties, this is no longer a problem.

Take HFC as an example. The top guilds were doing split clears of heroic the first week of mythic, targeted or full clears in following weeks. At a stretch they might even have done 1 or 2 normal bosses to finish Jimmy the Death Knight's 4set. If LFR had had tier they would not even have thought of going in there, there would have been simply no need. Mythic, heroic, and at a push normal had all the gear they needed.

But what if I'm not doing splits? What if I'm not clearing heroic week 1 and moving onto mythic? Simple answer, you / your guild are not good enough to use the argument 'I'm being forced to do LFR' when you're clearly not doing every other thing to max your gear.

Summary. No, LFR does not 'deserve' real tier. But it is still going to be well recieved and go part of the way to making legion more enjoyable
(Along with mythic+ and Suromar, those things look epiiiic)!

[bryroo]

I'm 7/13 mythic and I only use the groupfinder tool, so this whole "I don't have time to be in a guild" is bullshit. Really. If I can pug mythic, you can pug normal.

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It is the -worst- for gearing up alts when you absolutely can't stand LFR. I hope to the god almighty that doing mythic+ dungeons is a better option. Otherwise I guess I'm just playing 1 class this entire x pack. Because god damn I hate LFR.

You just said you only use the group finder tool so what's the problem?

[Lilija]

I don't think they'll increase the difficulty of the LFR much from WoD. It seems like the devs originally wanted to use the LFR as a gateway to normal mode raiding but realized most players simply did the LFR and that was it. Now players who exclusively do the LFR have something to look forward to doing each week. While it might be considered a net negative for players who feel they need to do whatever it takes to get their tier, the positive is players who normally may not have cared about farming the LFR having a reason to do so.

There are positives and negatives to this design but it really doesn't seem like too much of an overall negative.

Tbh I have no idea what people are whining about. In MoP it worked like this and most raiders were done with LFR in about a month at max. I personally haven't even cleared whole SoO LFR on my main (or maybe just done it once to see how it is for fun - don't remember exactly). Anyway, it's not such a big deal plus if guilds see the need of LFRing for set bonuses they often do it together so it takes like no time what so ever. The higher difficulty particular guild is doing the lesser need for doing LFR.

So it's really not big deal and maybe it really would do LFR some good.

[gcsmith]

You just said you only use the group finder tool so what's the problem?

Because when lfr has tier set, groups will require it for random things

[Alomega]

wowhead.com/achievement=10019 Attained by 63% of profiles
wowhead.com/achievement=9680 Attained by 44% of profiles
63% - 44% = 19% participating in LFR only. As I said, just a whining vocal minority.

Flex technology and new normal gave even the most casual guilds a possibility to not care about raid composition or attendance, thus greatly improving raiding for everybody. And now Blizz are trying to water it down to please lazy entitled whiners, who want to get everything without any effort.

Um, keep in mind that thousands upon thousands of players bought runs to get the mount. I haven't set foot in normal or higher and I have the Time is a flat circle and the ahead of the curve achievement. Does that make me a raider now? No...

That 44% should be lower if you exclude all the people who a bought mount run.

[tj119]

Since they are adding tier back, inevitably this means more skilled raiders will be running for their tier sets. They should most definitely increase the difficulty back to the MoP type LFR. At least make it be worked for in some way. It seriously wasn't even hard to have 1 or 2 guys basically carrying the rest of their roles to kill a boss.

[chooi]

It is the -worst- for gearing up alts when you absolutely can't stand LFR. I hope to the god almighty that doing mythic+ dungeons is a better option. Otherwise I guess I'm just playing 1 class this entire x pack. Because god damn I hate LFR.

Don't do LFR then. Easy decision.

[tristannarutofan]

Honestly i just want access to the appearance. freaking WoD problem i had is i got better gear elsewhere so when i'd do it for the legendary (which was fine) i couldnt even collect mog appearnaces fromt he dungeon because it all looked the same.

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buy all means though, have a back and forth pointless discussion about how adding better rewards to a certain part of the game is horrible because it mind controls people to play the game.

[Foj]

People in LFR cant handle difficulty, thats why they do LFR.

People used to do LFR because they hated organized raiding but wanted something vaguely similar to actual raid bosses along with something vaguely similar to actual raid gear as a reward. There were plenty of overtuned LFR bosses in MoP.

In WoD, people did LFR to get their legendary rings. There was nothing that was overtuned and nothing worth killing for any reason other than stupid ring parts.

[Leviatharan]

Oh good.

I only got as far as Heroics when I got into a new raiding guild in HFC, but believe me, the current LFR sets are little better than useless if you're planning on doing anything *more than LFR* - since most classes' effectiveness in a given tier is made or broken by access to the current (or even previous) 4pc set.

I don't see why people are complaining that LFR players are getting access to tier bonuses. No complaint you can make about the tier bonuses that you couldn't just extend to people who have regular tier or higher. All you're doing is pushing down people who haven't yet gotten better gear or access to better raids; it seems more elitist than anything else. Someone else having their 4pc bonus doesn't hurt you.

[Bosen]

I think LFR gear should look completely different and not a recolor.