[7.0] New Paladin Abilities and Talents

[Morally Grey Storm]

I've just realized that even a fucking enh shaman got a gap closer and still has access to ghost wolf... idk but it seems that blizzard does a massive crusade against ret paladins.

they are professionals you silly, they (do not) know what they are doing, it's their job and it get them ka-ching flowing!

[Deleted]

Question regarding Gr. Blessing of Wisdom.
According to Celestalon ( https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...42596570030080 ) it was a tooltip change. It should regenerate 1% every 15 seconds.
According to combat log it ticks every 3 seconds for 3506/3507 life while I have 1.469.100 maximum Life (PvP Premade outside of PVP). Wouldn't that mean it should heal 2938/2939 per tick?

[Fargus]

tbh devs aren't supposed to play their game.
they are devs, not players or testers.

Yes they are.

They are game developers. They are supposed to know what they are actually developing. Playing a game and developing it isn't mutually exclusive.

How can any competent game developer do their job if they haven't dipped their toe into their own creation? That would be akin to saying a movie director never watches their films.

[Deleted]

Question regarding Gr. Blessing of Wisdom.
According to Celestalon ( https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...42596570030080 ) it was a tooltip change. It should regenerate 1% every 15 seconds.
According to combat log it ticks every 3 seconds for 3506/3507 life while I have 1.469.100 maximum Life (PvP Premade outside of PVP). Wouldn't that mean it should heal 2938/2939 per tick?

I'm not sure what it's based on. In beta, I have a bit over 800k health but it ticks for 1884. I thought it might be my health when all my stamina from gear is removed, but even that doesn't account for it.

[Fargus]

According to Celestalon

Fuck Celestalon.

One of the prime reasons why ret is in the mess that it's in.

Makes me want to get those fucking little ghost/power dragons, whatever the hell they're called, and use some form of exotic energy to poke their eyeballs out.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Yes they are.

They are game developers. They are supposed to know what they are actually developing. Playing a game and developing it isn't mutually exclusive.

How can any competent game developer do their job if they haven't dipped their toe into their own creation? That would be akin to saying a movie director never watches their films.

yes, it isn't mutually exclusive, but it iesn't a prerequisite or a must either.

World of Tanks developers don't play terrribly a lot of their own game aswell, and it's F2P and is hugely popular within post-Soviet union and in China.
Just F.E.

[Fargus]

yes, it isn't mutually exclusive, but it iesn't a prerequisite or a must either.

World of Tanks developers don't play terrribly a lot of their own game aswell, and it's F2P and is hugely popular within post-Soviet union and in China.
Just F.E.

It is a must.

They are developing a game. They have to know how it works. And there's no better way than doing that by testing it out yourself. It doesn't have to be "terribly a lot", just enough to know how things work. Even from a fundamental standpoint, which they don't seem to here.

You hear devs saying they play this and that character, like this and that skill, etc all the time. Yet they can't test ret pally abilities with simple console commands at its most basic level? You're having a laugh here.

[Morally Grey Storm]

It is a must.

They are developing a game. They have to know how it works. And there's no better way than doing that by testing it out yourself. It doesn't have to be "terribly a lot", just enough to know how things work. Even from a fundamental standpoint, which they don't seem to here.

You hear devs saying they play this and that character, like this and that skill, etc all the time. Yet they can't test ret pally abilities with simple console commands at its most basic level? You're having a laugh here.

Rocket Scientists know how to build rockets and how they work.
They don't know how to "play" i.e. use them.
So are devs.

[Fargus]

Rocket Scientists know how to build rockets and how they work.
They don't know how to "play" i.e. use them.
So are devs.

Are you seriously comparing a game developer to a rocket scientist?

There really isn't such a thing as a "rocket scientist" as it's multidisciplinary. You might be referring to aerospace engineers, who *gasp* actually fly spacecraft. In fact, I think that is one of the prerequisites to pilot something like a space shuttle!

Anyway, you can't give every rocket scientist a rocket to fly around in (for obvious reasons). That's what simulators are for. Game developers have full access to the games they develop 24/7. How do they test raids? Balance the numbers? They have to go in-game to test what they created. It's part of their job.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Are you seriously comparing a game developer to a rocket scientist?

I can compare them to tank developers.
to car developers.
to shipwrights.
to whatever the feth.

No don't get me wrong.
I get your sentiment and I would actually much rather agree with you on that devs should of play their own product. Like, a lot.

But it's not required of any developer .
Except maybe CD Red Project devs I guess?
I can't for the life of me explain how did they make Witcher 3 so fething awesome

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Game developers have full access to the games they develop 24/7. How do they test raids? Balance the numbers? b.

They have about 10kk monkeys to do their bidding, that's how.

[Ulthane]

I will say CS no cd would easily work. I mean who here picked up a DH, havoc specifically.

[Teleros]

Are you seriously comparing a game developer to a rocket scientist?

Rocket scientists have it easier you know :P . Rocket engineers... yeah that's something else, but the physics of getting a rocket from Cape Canaveral into Earth orbit aren't very difficult.

There really isn't such a thing as a "rocket scientist" as it's multidisciplinary. You might be referring to aerospace engineers, who *gasp* actually fly spacecraft. In fact, I think that is one of the prerequisites to pilot something like a space shuttle!

The main reason they're chosen is so they can fix faults etc during a flight, because rockets and space shuttles are kind of temperamental at the best of times.

Anyway, you can't give every rocket scientist a rocket to fly around in (for obvious reasons). That's what simulators are for. Game developers have full access to the games they develop 24/7. How do they test raids? Balance the numbers?

Use models (eg spreadsheets). Or ask Quality Assurance etc (you know, the guys who are hired specifically to test this stuff). Or have the coders knock up a SimCraft-style program with the real (ie not reverse-engineered) numbers etc.

As far as WoW (and similar games) is concerned, the numbers and such are really quite trivial to balance assuming you have a good Excel spreadsheet.

The hard part is when you have very strong synergies between classes/items/spells etc (RMP comps in arenas, for example). However, it's pretty much guaranteed that a few dozen (tops) designers won't be able to spot all the synergies that thousands of top players will, so expect some broken stuff in this sense when a game as complex as WoW goes live.

= + =

I get your sentiment and I would actually much rather agree with you on that devs should of play their own product. Like, a lot.

I'd rather they played competitors' games so they can nick ideas TBH :P .

[Matt0193]

tbh devs aren't supposed to play their game.
they are devs, not players or testers.

Oh I agree, game's design 101 is design a game that people want to play not what you want to play. It's a just a point that they play almost every spec in the office.

[Lumineus]

Rocket Scientists know how to build rockets and how they work.
They don't know how to "play" i.e. use them.
So are devs.

Actually most astronauts are, in fact, rocket scientists. Ex-military ones, at that.

[Teleros]

Actually most astronauts are, in fact, rocket scientists. Ex-military ones, at that.

Perhaps, but they're a subset of rocket scientists in that case, so Storm can still say that "all" rocket scientists (as he implies) don't knw how to fly rockets.

[Taeldorian]

So, I'll recommend, stick to the FOTM class and be happy with the faceroll.

You come in here out of nowhere and recommend one of the dumbest things I've heard so far. It's very obvious everyone in this thread is dedicated to this class, what's the point of you saying this? There is no point.

If you pvp just go prot, it looks cooler, has much better everything and it's fun as hell in pvp (ignoring its damage). Blizzard also said they want tank classes to be competitive in pvp so it's safe to say we'll see prot a lot. Might as well use it until ret gets fixed later on in the expac. Holy is also in a good place but if you prefer dps in pvp go prot.

[Deleted]

If you pvp just go prot, it looks cooler, has much better everything and it's fun as hell in pvp (ignoring its damage). Blizzard also said they want tank classes to be competitive in pvp so it's safe to say we'll see prot a lot. Might as well use it until ret gets fixed later on in the expac. Holy is also in a good place but if you prefer dps in pvp go prot.

Well Tanks are supposed to be more "Support"-classes in PvP according to a blue post from a few weeks ago. I believe they will be annoying as hell with interrupts, knockbacks and.. well.. not dying.
I remember a Blood DK on Beta.. we hit him with 5 people and he didn't want to die. Ridicoulus

[Deleted]

You come in here out of nowhere and recommend one of the dumbest things I've heard so far. It's very obvious everyone in this thread is dedicated to this class, what's the point of you saying this? There is no point.

If you pvp just go prot, it looks cooler, has much better everything and it's fun as hell in pvp (ignoring its damage). Blizzard also said they want tank classes to be competitive in pvp so it's safe to say we'll see prot a lot. Might as well use it until ret gets fixed later on in the expac. Holy is also in a good place but if you prefer dps in pvp go prot.

I do not agree that people are forced to pick another spec in order to be viable in pvp! It is the same as saying "pick another class"! Neither being viable in PVP should depend on your race or your class/spec!

[tangers58]

Paladins are just being turned into bad warrior clones... which is ironic since they took away Hammer of Wrath because "executes are a warrior thing"

[Taeldorian]

I do not agree that people are forced to pick another spec in order to be viable in pvp! It is the same as saying "pick another class"! Neither being viable in PVP should depend on your race or your class/spec!

Not every spec is going to be viable. It's always been like this. First, ret has hardly ever been viable and I don't think it's ever even made it to blizzcon for a tournament. I know holy has but I think that's the only one. Prot is looking more viable then ret so go prot, that's how it's been for a long time man. Another example is frost Mage is looking viable but fire isn't, so go frost. That's just how it works. If one spec is better than the other you'd choose it because you don't wanna gimp your team and no class has every spec viable for pvp. It's always been pick and choose.

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Well Tanks are supposed to be more "Support"-classes in PvP according to a blue post from a few weeks ago. I believe they will be annoying as hell with interrupts, knockbacks and.. well.. not dying.
I remember a Blood DK on Beta.. we hit him with 5 people and he didn't want to die. Ridicoulus

In 3s that'll probably be extremely beneficial, but we'll have to see how it turns out. I know for a while blood DKs were unkillable in area (possibly around cata, I forgot though). I'd see teams of double blood dk everywhere.