Why so many killings in Chicago?

[alturic]

By every known academic study of the issue.

You have personal responsibility for yourself regardless of your financial disadvantages. This does not mean that you won't get more crime in poor areas. There is no contradict there, it shouldn't be hard to understand.

No, like I'm saying I kinda realize it IS related. The question is really one of, why are blacks much more likely to be involved in illegal activities? Why do they find it the thing to do to flash guns around, be proud they are smoking weed, etc? Do they believe they are above the law? Do they simply not care for the law? Do they not know right from wrong, legal from illegal? Is it primarily the ones who didn't grow up with a father figure to show them these things? That's what I'm curious of.

Infracted

[Al Gorefiend]

No, like I'm saying I kinda realize it IS related. The question is really one of, why are blacks much more likely to be involved in illegal activities? Do they believe they are above the law? Do they simply not care for the law? Do they not know right from wrong, legal from illegal? Is it primarily the ones who didn't grow up with a father figure to show them these things? That's what I'm curious of.

Skin color has zero to do with all of those things.

[Trample]

Why so many killing in <insert USA city> ? : Because of the NRA and your stupid ancestral right to have a weapon. That was so hard to guess...

[alturic]

Skin color has zero to do with all of those things.

Except it does? In most areas, you'll find more blacks doing all of those things than other races. People say it's because blacks are poor. I'm asking what is it about being poor that makes you somehow inherently not care about laws? Or be proud to smoke weed? Or flash pictures of you holding guns? Or kill others of your race?

Perhaps you think I mean "being black" makes you more likely to do these things, clearly it doesn't. However, skin color can be grouped to show certain skin colors have much higher rates of these things versus others. Clearly there is white and asians proud to smoke weed, but you don't seem them blasting it all over that they do it. Clearly there is white and asians who sell drugs, but it's still more blacks.

Clearly there is black and asian mass murderers, but whites are predominantely the ones who do that.
Clearly there is black and asian pedo's, but whites are predominantely the ones who do that.

Do you see what I'm trying to say/ask now? Being white doesn't make you somehow more likely to be a pedophile, but the stats show that whites are the predominant race to do so for some reason.

[bladeXcrasher]

Why so many killing in <insert USA city> ? : Because of the NRA and your stupid ancestral right to have a weapon. That was so hard to guess...

Because the people that commit crimes follow the law and get guns legally...

[Al Gorefiend]

Except it does? In most areas, you'll find more blacks doing all of those things than other races. People say it's because blacks are poor. I'm asking what is it about being poor that makes you somehow inherently not care about laws? Or be proud to smoke weed? Or flash pictures of you holding guns? Or kill others of your race?

Perhaps you think I mean "being black" makes you more likely to do these things, clearly it doesn't. However, skin color can be grouped to show certain skin colors have much higher rates of these things versus others. Clearly there is white and asians proud to smoke weed, but you don't seem them blasting it all over that they do it. Clearly there is white and asians who sell drugs, but it's still more blacks.

Clearly there is black and asian mass murderers, but whites are predominantely the ones who do that.
Clearly there is black and asian pedo's, but whites are predominantely the ones who do that.

Do you see what I'm trying to say/ask now? Being white doesn't make you somehow more likely to be a pedophile, but the stats show that whites are the predominant race to do so for some reason.

I kinda get what you're asking. Are you asking if there's a correlation between skin color and mental predisposition to certain types of crimes? Because there isn't, really. There's no such thing as a black brain vs. white brain vs. Asian brain for one, it all falls to the environment they grew up in and income levels neither of which are within a child's control (which is where cultural learning takes place subconsciously). There's a lot of factors, I'd wager.

For one, take a look at white role models vs. black role models in a group of kids, then teenagers. Who do they most likely look up to? For a lot of white kids, you may get "my parents" or a famous actor. For black kids, it's typically a famous rapper or civil rights activist who's career is paved by having struggled and having been born black in a society that unjustly vilifies them. So by the time whites and blacks become adults, their mindsets may be entirely different from all the information they've slowly taken in over the course of their life. Then with Asian kids and especially Asian immigrants, school in China is rigorous and emphasizes discipline as a way of teaching. I was just watching a guide to basic Mandarin language last night. The amount of stress placed on a 7 year old in China is absolutely nuts having to learn that language. And by middle school kids are expected to be fluent in both mandarin and pinyin, madness.

Point is, I think predisposition towards crime and outlook on life all comes from when we were kids as the primary factor.

[Fencers]

Why so many killing in <insert USA city> ? : Because of the NRA and your stupid ancestral right to have a weapon. That was so hard to guess...

Most gun violence in Chicago is committed by local street gangs over drugs, money and territory. They are not acquiring these guns legally in the majority of shootings.

Criminals, generally speaking, are not overly concerned with the law or historically good decision makers.

[alturic]

Most gun violence in Chicago is committed by local street gangs over drugs, money and territory. They are not acquiring these guns legally in the majority of shootings.

Criminals, generally speaking, are not overly concerned with the law or historically good decision makers.

Do you agree with the post from Humbugged right above yours? You can't, because then you'd be agreeing with me that blacks are, generally speaking, more likely to be criminals.

I'm sorry, I just can't get behind the whole poverty excuse. You're either a criminal or you're not. If you don't know right from wrong. Illegal vs illegal, ESPECIALLY when you become an "adult", there's no help for you and you'll always simply be a criminal.

It's insane logic trying to give them an excuse for why they think it's "normal" to post pictures holding guns, or smoking weed, or shooting others because they are (although they are already over the line in regards to the law at this point anyway) invading your turf, stealing your customers, etc.

[Morgarw]

blame the Irish and the Italians. This is what you did in the past while 99% of the crimes are commited by native americans (white or black doesen't matter).

[wowaccounttom]

^ title
-------
v

not enough white folk there im assuming

[Fencers]

Do you agree with the post from Humbugged right above yours?

This is quite a leap and rather out of the blue to ask me in reply to the post I made above.

I'm sorry, I just can't get behind the whole poverty excuse.

That's your problem frankly. If that is your view- fine. But it holds no weight or respect of consideration as data to the contrary.

Scores of data exists on the subject. Most of it is conclusive that crime is committed majorly by unskilled, under educated populaces with limited job opportunities.

During the highest rate of increase in crime in the US, we had the worst unemployment rate among the ethnic poor. When crime diminished a decade later it was in direct correlation to increase in education and economic advancement of the ethnic poor in the US.

The Gould/Weiner data on this has been cited 173 times among scholars.

Poverty is a serious factor in crime rates. Not the only factor, but a major contributor historically. We have almost 4 decades of data on this in the US.

You're either a criminal or you're not.

Only a small percent of law breakers are such for the glee of it. Circumstance does leads to criminality.

People can rationalize all kinds of ruinous behavior based on the environment and circumstance of their upbringing. Poverty, broken homes, denigration of education, superstition, etc. All these things systemically lead to pattern of behavior detrimental to social mobility.

[Dextroden]

This is quite a leap and rather out of the blue to ask me in reply to the post I made above.

That's your problem frankly. If that is your view- fine. But it holds no weight or respect of consideration as data to the contrary.

Scores of data exists on the subject. Most of it is conclusive that crime is committed majorly by unskilled, under educated populaces with limited job opportunities.

During the highest rate of increase in crime in the US, we had the worst unemployment rate among the ethnic poor. When crime diminished a decade later it was in direct correlation to increase in education and economic advancement of the ethnic poor in the US.

The Gould/Weiner data on this has been cited 173 times among scholars.

Poverty is a serious factor in crime rates. Not the only factor, but a major contributor historically. We have almost 4 decades of data on this in the US.

Only a small percent of law breakers are such for the glee of it. Circumstance does leads to criminality.

People can rationalize all kinds of ruinous behavior based on the environment and circumstance of their upbringing. Poverty, broken homes, denigration of education, superstition, etc. All these things systemically lead to pattern of behavior detrimental to social mobility.

Poverty does a great job of explaining away non-violent crime and petty theft. For the shitshow going on in places like Chicago, it's a goddamn cop out.

What, you think the people killing each other and innocents over territory, drugs or fucking nothing will magically stop if they had more money or got a grant to go to college? You CHOOSE to be a gang members and make the community shit. There is a large culture of gang member/dope seller worship going on as well. Sprinkle a dash of "white people are the source of all your suffering" from those activists and we have a nice slurry of shit.

[Themius]

Because the people that commit crimes follow the law and get guns legally...

It's as if you don't see why making it as easy as possible to get guns leads to there being more guns available for people who get them via nefarious ways.

[Bbobert]

It only means you're being purposefully dishonest about it. Completely ignoring the main reason it doesn't work in that place, just to twist into your pro gun agenda. A child can see why it's a false conclusion to make.

Perhaps you should pay more attention then. http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/02/us...-gun-violence/

Deaths to terrorism: 3380
Deaths to "no negative sides" gun violence: 406496

CNN is being dishonest about "gun violence" and it's impact by posting misleading numbers spread over a 12 year period. And you are being dishonest by repeating the misinformation. Those numbers were taken from death certificates and include suicides, accidents, or those who were shot legally in self defence.

According to the CDC these are the leading causes of death in the US:

1.Diseases of heart (heart disease)
2.Malignant neoplasms (cancer)
3.Chronic lower respiratory diseases
4.Accidents (unintentional injuries)
5.Cerebrovascular diseases (stroke)
6.Alzheimer’s disease
7.Diabetes mellitus (diabetes)
8.Influenza and pneumonia
9.Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis (kidney disease)
10.Intentional self-harm (suicide)
11.Septicemia
12.Chronic liver disease and cirrhosis
13.Essential hypertension and hypertensive renal disease (hypertension)
14.Parkinson’s disease
15.Pneumonitis due to solids and liquids

None of the top 15 are homicides. With all the news reports about "gun violence" why aren't there more about the 15 leading causes of death in the US? Most of which are preventable? I know the answer: politics. CNN is biased toward Democrats so they support whatever stories will increase popularity for their chosen politicians like Michael Bloomberg, Hillary Clinton, etc...

According to the CDC "The two major component causes of firearm injury deaths in 2013 were suicide (63.0%) and homicide (33.3%).". I know from personal experience that when a person wants to end their life they will do so with or without a gun. My brother did not use a gun to end his own life. Using suicide numbers in any crusade against legal gun ownership is misleading especially when the same people aren't campaigning for suicide prevention.

Some actual facts taken from FBI's 2013 table 20 which lists the numbers of homicides in the US and the weapon used:

8,357 were killed by a person using a gun.
1,486 were killed by a person using a cutting tool.
1,621 were killed by a person using a blunt object.
685 were killed by a person without the use of any weapon.
-----------------------------------------------
12,149 total US homicides in 2013

The stats show that 3,792 (31%) people were killed without the use of a gun, but why are there no campaigns to stop all violence and only to stop what they call "gun violence"? Violent crime only accounted for 0.04% of all deaths in 2013 so why does so called "gun violence" get so much press? Furthermore how is 0.000232% the number of all legally owned guns in the US used to commit a murder any significant number that could prove that legal ownership has any relation to violence?

More people were murdered in California without the use of a gun than all of the homicides in the UK, which has nearly twice the population. The US has a violence problem. It won't go away if guns are banned. But of course America has much larger problems which the CDC points out; healthcare. And all of this media attention for a problem that's much smaller than they make it out to be points to a significant problem with politician corruption.

[alturic]

This is quite a leap and rather out of the blue to ask me in reply to the post I made above.

Scores of data exists on the subject. Most of it is conclusive that crime is committed majorly by unskilled, under educated populaces with limited job opportunities.

Poverty is a serious factor in crime rates. Not the only factor, but a major contributor historically. We have almost 4 decades of data on this in the US.

Only a small percent of law breakers are such for the glee of it. Circumstance does leads to criminality.

1.) It was mainly because you said "Criminals, generally speaking, are not overly concerned with the law or historically good decision makers." and the guy above you said blacks "look up" to rappers and activists.

2.) So unskilled, under educated people with limited jobs (I don't know what you mean, fast food, convenient stores are always hiring) are more prone to disobey the rule of law?

3.) That leads me back to my whole point, SURELY I hope any civilized person doesn't commit crime "just because", but the fact blacks seem to joyfully post pictures of guns and drugs, kill others of their own kind, etc surely shows the black community has major issues within itself before even asking for help from the outside on issues that only make up a fraction of the overall problem they have.

- - - Updated - - -

It's as if you don't see why making it as easy as possible to get guns leads to there being more guns available for people who get them via nefarious ways.

Because the problem isn't "guns", the problem is "criminals obtaining guns". If you don't see THAT is the root issue, I don't know...

Cars and alcohol aren't the problem, it's criminals driving cars drunk that's the problem, see the point?

[Xar226]

Yes, predominantly black communities and cities have the highest crime rates in the U.S. Does this statement make me racist?

Serious discussion on the correlation of race and crime are snuffed out

And here we have the reason that the answer to your question is "maybe."

Do you know what else is correlated? US government spending on space, science and technology and the number of suicides by hanging, strangulation and suffocation (99.97%). Per capita cheese consumption has a 94.7% correlation with the number of people who die after becoming tangled in their bedsheets. The per-capita consumption of margarine has a 99.26% correlation with the divorce rate in Maine. (Source and more fun: http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations)

And yet nobody is going to suggest that if we spent less on the space program that there would be fewer suicides, that eating cheese makes you get tangled in your bedsheets or that margarine is a cause of divorce. Hell, nobody is even going to suggest that these things are more likely based on their pair (ie, nobody is going to claim that eating more cheese increases your chance of dying tangled in your bedsheets.) And if somebody did, we would mock them for a fool and dismiss them. Yet somehow we're okay with people going no further than that when it comes to race and crime, two subjects I hope we can all agree are much more important and much more complex than cheese or bedsheets.

Nobody denies that there is a correlation between race and crime; the numbers are readily available. What conclusion one uses that information to jump to, however, is what determines whether or not the person uttering it is a racist fool or something more.

The reality is we don't even know the cause for most crime. We can trot out spurious correlations all we please, but we have absolutely no idea if we're making a valid point or simply talking out of our backside.

[Bbobert]

I'm sorry, I just can't get behind the whole poverty excuse. You're either a criminal or you're not. If you don't know right from wrong. Illegal vs illegal, ESPECIALLY when you become an "adult", there's no help for you and you'll always simply be a criminal.

It's insane logic trying to give them an excuse for why they think it's "normal" to post pictures holding guns, or smoking weed, or shooting others because they are (although they are already over the line in regards to the law at this point anyway) invading your turf, stealing your customers, etc.

People who know what's right and what's wrong can still be criminals. Organized crime is made up entirely by people who know work at getting away with doing the wrong thing. Smoking weed has nothing to do with violent crime. Poverty, lack of education/skills, little or no opportunity, and being in a crowded city with a lot of other people in the same situation is a breeding ground for violent behavior. As a whole people who aren't left wanting don't feel the need to commit violent crimes to get what they want or need.

[Borgia]

High population of blacks. And the cause is their very low IQs.
Hope you can handle the truth.

[Bbobert]

And here we have the reason that the answer to your question is "maybe."

Do you know what else is correlated? US government spending on space, science and technology and the number of suicides by hanging, strangulation and suffocation (99.97%). Per capita cheese consumption has a 94.7% correlation with the number of people who die after becoming tangled in their bedsheets. The per-capita consumption of margarine has a 99.26% correlation with the divorce rate in Maine. (Source and more fun: http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations)

And yet nobody is going to suggest that if we spent less on the space program that there would be fewer suicides, that eating cheese makes you get tangled in your bedsheets or that margarine is a cause of divorce. Hell, nobody is even going to suggest that these things are more likely based on their pair (ie, nobody is going to claim that eating more cheese increases your chance of dying tangled in your bedsheets.) And if somebody did, we would mock them for a fool and dismiss them. Yet somehow we're okay with people going no further than that when it comes to race and crime, two subjects I hope we can all agree are much more important and much more complex than cheese or bedsheets.

Nobody denies that there is a correlation between race and crime; the numbers are readily available. What conclusion one uses that information to jump to, however, is what determines whether or not the person uttering it is a racist fool or something more.

The reality is we don't even know the cause for most crime. We can trot out spurious correlations all we please, but we have absolutely no idea if we're making a valid point or simply talking out of our backside.

Very good points and very well written. Bravo.

[Gemini Soul]

--SNIP--

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