Is the institution of Marriage still relevant?

[Deleted]

If there's a time when divorce happens...then it's obvious that you married the wrong woman.

Yeah. Because you can totally predict with a hundred per cent certainty how your marriage is going to turn out. In other words, your own fault for marrying 'the wrong woman' and therefore you deserve to have your wealth and children taken away from you. Surely you're not stupid enough to believe that.

[Tulune]

It is to people who think it's relevant. Personally speaking, I value it and find it sad that a lot of people in my age group don't. It creates family, which is very important for children. I grew up with loving, stable parents, and saw how hard it is for others with single parents and broken homes.

[Shadowferal]

Yeah. Because you can totally predict with a hundred per cent certainty how your marriage is going to turn out. In other words, your own fault for marrying 'the wrong woman' and therefore you deserve to have your wealth and children taken away from you. Surely you're not stupid enough to believe that.

Surely you're not stupid enough to marry someone you don't trust...

[Underverse]

It is to people who think it's relevant. Personally speaking, I value it and find it sad that a lot of people in my age group don't. It creates family, which is very important for children. I grew up with loving, stable parents, and saw how hard it is for others with single parents and broken homes.

You don't need to be married to be together. You don't need to be married to have a family. It's not a binary.

[Felya]

Depends on the person. I've been with my gf for 17 years and we both would rather do a million thing other than get married. But, if she wanted it and because I just don't care, we'd be married. Signing off on a house together was a far greater display of commitment than a marriage license anyway.

[Kapadons]

Such a hypocrite. :|

Very much so, but;

There is a difference,to me at least, between being in an open marriage and a fling or one night stand. Also, I wouldn't want my wife to have regrets in her life as it comes to a close. If one of her life goals was to take as much random dick as possible, I would either have to be completely oblivious to her actions or not married to her. Thankfully, it isn't one of her life goals.

Also, I operate under the theory that people venture out of a relationship for something they are not getting in a relationship. Be it sex or emotional fulfillment or even happiness.

[Deleted]

Surely you're not stupid enough to marry someone you don't trust...

You're not even capable of grasping that you can never fully know a person. Enjoy your eventual divorce.

[Lady Dragonheart]

Very much so, but;

There is a difference,to me at least, between being in an open marriage and a fling or one night stand. Also, I wouldn't want my wife to have regrets in her life as it comes to a close. If one of her life goals was to take as much random dick as possible, I would either have to be completely oblivious to her actions or not married to her. Thankfully, it isn't one of her life goals.

Also, I operate under the theory that people venture out of a relationship for something they are not getting in a relationship. Be it sex or emotional fulfillment or even happiness.

It's still scummy and pathetic that you decide to cheat on your wife like that, in addition to being hypocritical about the whole thing.

Not only that, but rationalizing your cheating by essentially saying "well other people cheat too" doesn't do your argument any justice, either.

Now, what if you found out something along the lines of her cheating on you? Would you continue your hypocritical debauchery and slander/punish/leave her for something that you, yourself, have been doing to her this entire time?

[Kapadons]

It's still scummy and pathetic that you decide to cheat on your wife like that, in addition to being hypocritical about the whole thing.

Not only that, but rationalizing your cheating by essentially saying "well other people cheat too" doesn't do your argument any justice, either.

Now, what if you found out something along the lines of her cheating on you? Would you continue your hypocritical debauchery and slander/punish/leave her for something that you, yourself, have been doing to her this entire time?

If my wife knew I cheated on her, she would leave me. If I knew my wife cheated on me, I would leave her. Not very hypocritical.

Also, I never said I cheated on my wife. I just advocated the OP in the other thread to go ahead and fuck the chick from work he wanted to fuck.

[Spectral]

Being a so-called 'manchild' is in every way superior to marriage.

Why do you figure it is that married men live longer, make more money, and have higher self-reported life satisfaction?

[Deleted]

Why do you figure it is that married men live longer, make more money, and have higher self-reported life satisfaction?

Because women generally only marry the people they deem 'worthy', which most of the time boils down to having a high income. All of these benefits are the direct benefits that higher income brings.

It would also be interesting to compare married men to divorced men. I get the hunch they probably live far shorter lives (due to suicide), earn less money (due to constantly having to support the ex-wife) and have lower life satisfaction (for obvious reasons). I've honestly no idea why any man would choose to marry nowadays, you're pretty much staking your life on another individual that you have no control over.

[Spectral]

Because women generally only marry the people they deem 'worthy', which most of the time boils down to having a high income. All of these benefits are the direct benefits that higher income brings.

It would also be interesting to compare married men to divorced men. I get the hunch they probably live far shorter lives (due to suicide), earn less money (due to constantly having to support the ex-wife) and have lower life satisfaction (for obvious reasons). I've honestly no idea why any man would choose to marry nowadays, you're pretty much staking your life on another individual that you have no control over.

The notion that someone has no control over the success of their marriage is pretty absurd.

[Illuminance]

The notion that someone has no control over the success of their marriage is pretty absurd.

Isn't it more absurd that two people enter into an agreement to do their best for life, and it still falls apart ~50% of the time? Doesn't matter if you can influence the success of the marriage when there are plenty of people who are devastated after giving it their best shot.

[Spectral]

Isn't it more absurd that two people enter into an agreement to do their best for life, and it still falls apart ~50% of the time? Doesn't matter if you can influence the success of the marriage when there are plenty of people who are devastated after giving it their best shot.

The first thing I'd note is that ~50% is kinda bullshit. The number's ~42% and lower than this for first time marriages.

For people seeking to optimize their chances of success, waiting until age 25 and having an education results in very low divorce rates.

I also just don't find, "many people fail" to be a compelling argument for not doing something. Many people aren't virtuous, don't have much in the way of work ethic or mental fortitude. I am not one of those people.

[Illuminance]

I also just don't find, "many people fail" to be a compelling argument for not doing something.

That's an interesting personal philosophy. It depends on what you stand to gain or lose for your risk.

Do you need to get married to enjoy the benefits of having a wife? I just don't think it's worth the risks, and I don't think it's a necessary gamble to make in the first place.

[Spectral]

That's an interesting personal philosophy. It depends on what you stand to gain or lose for your risk.

Do you need to get married to enjoy the benefits of having a wife? I just don't think it's worth the risks, and I don't think it's a necessary gamble to make in the first place.

There are some significant tax and contractual benefits that are either unavailable or inconveniently available. There are also social standing benefits which are easy to ignore, but actually rather positive from my perspective. People treat a married couple differently than they treat a less formally committed couple. We can complain that this isn't fair, but hey, I'm not the one that made the rules and I don't seem to be able to do much to change them.

I also view the risk as very low given the demographic characteristics of my wife and I (using this for statistical inference) as well as our general temperaments and preferences. It's not for everyone, of course.

[anakin57]

I think it is, but like any institution it should evolve with the times if it wants to stay in existence/relevance

[Raiil]

Surely you're not stupid enough to marry someone you don't trust...

People can change for a lot of reasons. Trauma, life changes, medical issues, or hell even just time going by. You can get married to the perfect person, and then ten years later children and life circumstances have transformed you both. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. That happens regardless of marriage. I know my father saw his mother in a much different light after she went batcrap once he got married, and her asshattery had a serious effect on both of my parents.

Nothing in life is 100% guaranteed. Marriage- like literally everything else you will do- is something of a gamble.


I have no intention of getting married or having children, but I do think marriage does have a service in society in creating a familial unit. The difference is now what we consider to be family. Blended families are common and not necessarily bad. Marriage, I think, has a net positive effect for society but is itself neutral; it's the people involved who make it or break it.

[Berengil]

You wouldn't, because you don't value those things, which is sad.



Having a job and paying your bills does not make you a man in my opinion. Neither does attracting the attention of lonely women. It just makes you slightly less pathetic than the guy living in his mom's basement.



I'm not appealing to tradition. I'm appealing to my personal beliefs. I also never said you shouldn't be allowed for you to live your life the way you see fit. I just made a value judgement in saying that the way you've chosen to live your life is sad and rather useless. It's my opinion. You're in no way required to agree with it. As to whether or not my arguments convince others, you don't speak for anyone but yourself. Neither do I. So let's just agree to avoid attempting to do so in the future.

I do sincerely hope you find someone who changes your beliefs on this subject. That is ultimately between you and them though. God bless.

- - - Updated - - -



I agree with you that government has no meaningful role to play in marriage, but I disagree that voicing commitment publicly serves no function. We use ceremony and public oaths in our lives as a means of solidifying a social contract. This is not limited to marriage. When I joined the military, the legal document I signed was the binding portion with regards to the law. For me and those who serve with me though, the oath we spoke carries far more significance than the line we signed. It is similar with marriage. You can shack up with your girlfriend if you want (You really shouldn't but I digress). It does not constitute living with your wife though. You have professed commitment to a wife for better or worse. You're just putting up with your girlfriend until she annoys you sufficiently to get rid of her.

Ahh well , no harm done, 10th. We're just different. Thank God we live in a country where people are free to choose the details of their personal life as they wish.

I'm just a loner, mostly. I take care of my self and I don't ask anyone for help. I stay out of trouble and I go scratch that " itch" whenever I feel it. I don't leave messes or problems wherever I go ( vsec was good for that) and no one will have to clean up after me when I check out of this mudball (will and longterm care insurance ftw) . I'll admit it kind of pissed my parents off; I'd say they are very much more like you. Dad was a Marine and mom a preacher's daughter.

They made a bad mistake: constantly and without ceasing trying to push off the church and family thing on me. I tell you, the surest way to get a kid to hate what you believe is to never stop trying to shove it down their throat.

You do seem to be a pretty chill dude; the kind of guy who actually practices what he preaches and doesn't foam at the mouth trying to push it on others. Best of luck to you and your lady on the new kid. I would be a nervous dmn wreck.

[Poopymonster]

I think the problem is too many stupid kids don't understand what marriage is. If they fully grasped the concept we might not have so many divorces.

And too many parents pressure their kids into getting married, like it's the only way to Be A Person. And other people, complete strangers give you shit seemingly based on the logic that "You can't be happy unless you are married, 2.5 kids, drive a minivan, white picket fence,mow the lawn on saturdays waving hi to a neighbor named Fred". Females seem to get it worse then males, but both sides get shit on.

I never wanted to get married, my GF is divorced, doesn't want to get married again. Minute her and I became really serious, friends asked when the wedding was, her mother started asking if "i was right for her" to marry. My parents haven't said a thing to me about it, but they also know how I feel about it.

Yeah, kids don't know shit about shit, people peddling this marriage bullshit doesn't help either.