Justin Trudeau selectively liberal? Canadian Government continues arming saudis

[Deleted]

The deal was already signed and in the works when he took office. That gave him precisely two options;

1> Go through with the deal as laid out, while setting the stage for adjusting future policy (what he's doing), or
2> Cancel the deal that's already been agreed to, creating an international incident, and making it clear that he'd be willing to ignore international treaties and agreements because of his personal outlook (what you folks are suggesting he should do).

Yeah, no. He's doing the right thing. The deal should never have been signed, but the blame for that's on Harper's government.

Sure, respect the agreement. I mean it will only result in the death of thousands of innocent Yemeni civilians.
NO BIG DEAL.

You're more concerned about international perception than civilian lives. Fucking lol.

[Deleted]

It's pretty damn telling that the only time you folks brought this deal up is now, when Trudeau's the PM, and not when Harper's government was negotiating it.

We get it. You hate anyone that isn't pushing as far right on the political scale as possible. That doesn't mean you're making any sense.

To be fair to the guy Harper wasn't pretending to be anything other than pragmatic. There is a question of hypocrisy.

[Deleted]

Hello from one of your brothers down south of the border. I have nothing to add to this conversation. I'm just thrilled to see what Canadians argue about. Proceed.

Male feminist Trudeau is supplying arms to a theocracy that oppresses women.

I always find the excuses people make for people like him amusing.

We get it. You hate anyone that isn't pushing as far right on the political scale as possible.

I am merely highlighting hypocrisy.

Are you fucking serious? Do you really think Trump is going to fuck up all that oil money?

Holding everyone to ransom will end. Trump can't be bought. He's already managed to anger the Saudis.

But that's ok.

[Kraenen]

It's pretty damn telling that the only time you folks brought this deal up is now, when Trudeau's the PM, and not when Harper's government was negotiating it.

We get it. You hate anyone that isn't pushing as far right on the political scale as possible. That doesn't mean you're making any sense.

What a half-brained response. To think you can never bring up an issue because before would've been the "right" time is ridiculous.

To what extent is it far right to disengage from the Saudis? It would be disempowering their regime and influence...

- - - Updated - - -

Sure, respect the agreement. I mean it will only result in the death of thousands of innocent Yemeni civilians.
NO BIG DEAL.

You're more concerned about international perception than civilian lives. Fucking lol.

Endus' statement really shows the title of the thread to be true. Trudeau selects nice times to be liberal - causing an "international incident" is just too risky! Better play it safe, and be conservative.

[Rennadrel]

Saudi Arabia funds madrassas and terrorist cells all over the world.

Supporting it is the Wests' dumbest foreign policy decision. Especially now when oil is less important.

You mean when Canadians are still getting charged over $1 a litre for gas.

[Deleted]

Endus' statement really shows the title of the thread to be true. Trudeau selects nice times to be liberal - causing an "international incident" is just too risky! Better play it safe, and be conservative.

The fact that he is more bothered about upsetting the Saudi dictatorship than saving lives is worrying. Waiting until the "right time" before implementing feminist foreign policy is partly the reason why the world is so fucked up today.

Why doesn't Endus go and explain to the women and children being killed at weddings and schools in Yemen that their deaths are OK because we are avoiding "international incident"?

Such a ridiculous argument I can't even.

[Endus]

What a half-brained response. To think you can never bring up an issue because before would've been the "right" time is ridiculous.

To what extent is it far right to disengage from the Saudis? It would be disempowering their regime and influence...

This was a done deal when Trudeau took power. That's the point. Politics isn't about enforcing your ideological view onto all policy that had preceded your administration. If you want to make changes, there are processes that should be followed.

[badzerath]

There's that good old Endus partisan zealotry I missed.

- - - Updated - - -

For all future reference Endus has officially supported a mindset that puts political convenience ahead of saving lives.

Wow, this Canadian PM is a fucking leader!

[Ahovv]

The deal was already signed and in the works when he took office. That gave him precisely two options;

1> Go through with the deal as laid out, while setting the stage for adjusting future policy (what he's doing), or
2> Cancel the deal that's already been agreed to, creating an international incident, and making it clear that he'd be willing to ignore international treaties and agreements because of his personal outlook (what you folks are suggesting he should do).

Yeah, no. He's doing the right thing. The deal should never have been signed, but the blame for that's on Harper's government.

That's the same bogus argument neocons offered against withdrawing troops from Iraq. "We're already in, can't leave or bad things will happen!"

Poor policies should be gutted as soon as possible, regardless of the "feelings" of Saudi Arabia. If he gets heat for it from people who don't understand what's going on, so be it. It would be the right thing to do. His political career is ultimately irrelevant.

[Endus]

That's the same bogus argument neocons offered against withdrawing troops from Iraq. "We're already in, can't leave or bad things will happen!"

Poor policies should be gutted as soon as possible, regardless of the "feelings" of Saudi Arabia. If he gets heat for it from people who don't understand what's going on, so be it. It would be the right thing to do. His political career is ultimately irrelevant.

If this was an ongoing trade arrangement, you might have had a point. When Obama took office, plans were already in place to get out of Iraq, and he stuck by them. No different.

[Ahovv]

If this was an ongoing trade arrangement, you might have had a point. When Obama took office, plans were already in place to get out of Iraq, and he stuck by them. No different.

Exactly. He could have left sooner; instead he stayed on the Bush timetable. An antiwar president would have withdrawn immediately.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Exactly. He could have left sooner; instead he stayed on the Bush timetable. An antiwar president would have withdrawn immediately.

Bush's Iraq plan was of war not of trade. There's a bit of difference and while I have no big love for Saudi Arabia I can see why Trudeau played it safe.

[Tradewind]

This was a done deal when Trudeau took power. That's the point. Politics isn't about enforcing your ideological view onto all policy that had preceded your administration. If you want to make changes, there are processes that should be followed.

Bullshit. The Liberals have made it a point to "undo" a lot of the previously instituted PC policies: F-35's, long form census, Operation Impact, IFHP, income splitting, door to door mail, union financing disclosures etc. Reversals that are costing an equal if not higher cost than not selling the LAV's would. How much? It's hard to say since that information has not been disclosed at all.

Stephan Dion quietly signed the export permits, the Liberals have lied to us all about who did what. Making him the one chiefly responsible for the export of these LAV's now. Until January all that was exchanged was technical data.

In the end this is a "donations reward" and about jobs in Ontario. God forbid the Liberals do anything to upset their base.

While the Canadian government funnels billions of dollars from its citizens into the bank accounts of military contractors, many of these businesses return the favour by stuffing the war chest of Canada’s ruling political party. Although there are various loopholes that legally allow corporations to give secret donations to political parties, we do know that between 1993 and 2002, Canadian military contractors gave at least $7.93 million to Canada’s three main corporate political parties. Of these disclosed donations, the Liberal Party received $4.93 million (62%), while $1.81 million (23%) went to the Progressive Conservatives, and $1.19 (15%) was given to the Alliance and Reform parties. (The Bloc Quebecois and the NDP received little or no such donations from military corporations.)

[xChurch]

Funny how people seem to think there would have be a major difference in the loss of lives in the Middle East if this deal hadn't gone through. It's not exactly as if the Saudi's are currently hard up for weapons of war, this was just an upgrade purchase for them. And if I remember correctly the Saudi's have very few ground forces commited to any war where LAVs would be useful.

[Deleted]

There's that good old Endus partisan zealotry I missed.
For all future reference Endus has officially supported a mindset that puts political convenience ahead of saving lives.

This thread is pretty good. As long as it can all be blamed on Harper, I guess Trudeau should abandon his principles and honour shitty deals anyway.

[Frontenac]

This was a done deal when Trudeau took power. That's the point. Politics isn't about enforcing your ideological view onto all policy that had preceded your administration. If you want to make changes, there are processes that should be followed.

Come on, it has been done before. Chrétien cancelled the purchase of nuclear submarines by Mulroney and Harper cancelled the purchase of helicopters by Chrétien. You also have France that cancelled the sale of warships to Russia following the war in Ukraine. The real reason why they don't want to cancel it this time is because of the jobs in Ontario. Period.

This suicidal alliance with Saudi Arabia is not Harper's deed alone. We know since 2001, if not before, that this archaic, fanatic and criminal monarchy of the Al Sauds are financing islamist schools and mosques as well as international terrorism. Yet, we, I mean the western countries, persist to consider them "allies" and trade partners. Good way to give them the rope to hang us. Or maybe the knife to behead us... That seems to be their way nowadays...

And it is not bound to change. Trudeau's advisors in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs advised him to strengthen our relations with Saudi Arabia. Not long ago, Saudi Cultural Days were held in Ottawa, with a delegation from the Saudi government. Meanwhile, Raïf Badawi still rot in jail, waiting to be whipped because he wrote bad things about Islam in his blog, while his wife hopes for his liberation in Sherbrooke, Québec, where she has found refuge. She will be waiting for a long time, it seems.