Im arms, I dont want to CS

[Flaks]

Ah, I at first thought it was cata, but since the guy said it was a looooooonggggg time ago I figured I must be wrong and it was WotLK.

and lots of bad ideas came out of cata. TBC and WotLK models were much much better imo.

Cata arms was crap for pvp but incredible for pve.

[Valkaneer]

MOP had a CS reset mechanic too, and I loved MOP Arms personally at least in 5.4. WOD Arms wasn't fantastic but CS reset is not new to WOD.

I couldn't stand MoP Arms, the only and I mean only way you could do any decent damage was stacked slam damage. Only reason it did any good damage at all was there was no cap on the number of targets for slam, if your tanks were not good and adds not stacked it was shit damage.

Arms should be all about Single Target damage with a splash of AoE (SS & blade storm), It's the way the class was designed and they way it was always up through cata until MoP. 4.3 Cata had the most complex rotation ever, and was not fun imo. Stance dancing and gaming for back to back OP was ridiculous, IMO nothing but bloated overly complicated mechanics. If it was up to me SS would have gone back to having the CD it use to have, ST damage would have been raised, and Fury would be the AoE spec like it use to be. I'm just happy to see things somewhat fixed in Legion, meaning good ST can once again be a real thing with Arms.

WoD you rely on a 4 pc set bonus to do any decent damage, that 2 & 4pc set bonus is something like 35 or 40% increase in damage. It was sloppy, bad game design, that was hastily implemented, and was warned about in WoD beta.

[Bigbazz]

I couldn't stand MoP Arms, the only and I mean only way you could do any decent damage was stacked slam damage. Only reason it did any good damage at all was there was no cap on the number of targets for slam, if your tanks were not good and adds not stacked it was shit damage.

Arms should be all about Single Target damage with a splash of AoE (SS & blade storm), It's the way the class was designed and they way it was always up through cata until MoP. 4.3 Cata had the most complex rotation ever, and was not fun imo. Stance dancing and gaming for back to back OP was ridiculous, IMO nothing but bloated overly complicated mechanics. If it was up to me SS would have gone back to having the CD it use to have, ST damage would have been raised, and Fury would be the AoE spec like it use to be. I'm just happy to see things somewhat fixed in Legion, meaning good ST can once again be a real thing with Arms.

WoD you rely on a 4 pc set bonus to do any decent damage, that 2 & 4pc set bonus is something like 35 or 40% increase in damage. It was sloppy, bad game design, that was hastily implemented, and was warned about in WoD beta.

Arms has never had good single target damage other than in Dragon Soul, where it was even stronger on AOE. For sure there were short periods in WOD where Arms had good single target, both were followed by heavy nerfs. Actually in the early days Arms dps was generally just not that strong in general, Fury wasn't an AOE spec since it was a contender for No1 spot on single target/cleave pre Cataclysm while only averagely good on AOE (4 target limit).

If you were good at MOP Arms you would know that you could do more dps by focussing on OP + HS instead of Slam, so MOP Arms actually had 2 workable rotations on single target. The other point you make is silly, most classes do shit AOE dps if the tank doesn't stack mobs, that's not an Arms Warrior problem. Arms 5.4 cleave/AOE was really strong in a good group.

[Valkaneer]

Arms has never had good single target damage other than in Dragon Soul, where it was even stronger on AOE. For sure there were short periods in WOD where Arms had good single target, both were followed by heavy nerfs. Actually in the early days Arms dps was generally just not that strong in general, Fury wasn't an AOE spec since it was a contender for No1 spot on single target/cleave pre Cataclysm while only averagely good on AOE (4 target limit).

If you were good at MOP Arms you would know that you could do more dps by focussing on OP + HS instead of Slam, so MOP Arms actually had 2 workable rotations on single target. The other point you make is silly, most classes do shit AOE dps if the tank doesn't stack mobs, that's not an Arms Warrior problem. Arms 5.4 cleave/AOE was really strong in a good group.

I don't think you played early Arms or Fury. WW was never part of Arms rotation, it was always part of Furys. SS had a large CD and since WW was Berserker stance it was always meant for Fury. Cleave was the only thing Arms had, and it did 2 target damage. Cleave, and Sweeping Strikes was Arms "AoE" and SS had a sizable CD. Sorry but Arms was the ST spec and has always been the ST spec all the way through WotLK.

Everyone that played a Warrior in Vanilla and TBC for sure (and imo even WotLK) knows Arms = ST damage, but could do some AoE at times, Fury = AoE spec, AoE part of the rotation and only surpassed Arms in DPS because it was the AoE spec and only did so at high gear levels. Every now and then blizz would put some of the original skills in the other spec's tree, but WW was Berserker Stance, and Beserker Stance is what Fury was suppose to be played in while Arms was Battle Stance and Arms had almost no AoE at all.

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Arms rotation - mainly sat in Battle Stance - [Rend, MS, OP, HS, Battle Stance] Slam, hamstring spam (see no AoE present in that rotation, all ST damage).

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Fury - mainly sat in Beserkers Stance - [BT, WW, Beserker Stance] OP, Rend, HS etc... (AoE present in this rotation)

[Archimtiros]

Everyone that played a Warrior in Vanilla and TBC for sure (and imo even WotLK) knows Arms = ST damage, but could do some AoE at times, Fury = AoE spec, AoE part of the rotation and only surpassed Arms in DPS because it was the AoE spec and only did so at high gear levels. Every now and then blizz would put some of the original skills in the other spec's tree, but WW was Berserker Stance, and Beserker Stance is what Fury was suppose to be played in while Arms was Battle Stance and Arms had almost no AoE at all.

That's not really true either. (Pure) Fury was doodoo up until the second BWL patch that changed Bloodthirst into a direct attack and later itemization made the spec functional between AQ and Naxx. While Arms was still very much relevant for it's debuffs, Fury quickly overtook it in ST DPS throughout pretty much all of TBC due to much better itemization, returns on Hit, Haste and later ArP, and while Arms was strong early in Wrath due largely to Fury's lack of necessary stat amounts, Fury ended up dominating by the end for both ST and AoE.

Regardless, and I can't stress this enough, it really doesn't matter what Arms or Fury have been in the past. The game evolves, design direction changes, and classes play differently as a result. What they did in the past, especially 6+ years ago, has very little bearing on the present.

[Bigbazz]

I didn't play Arms in Vanilla but I did in TBC during Sunwell for Blood Frenzy and TBC Arms was not in Battle Stance, it was in Berserker Stance. TBC Arms was also not good single target, the only reason it was desired in the raid was because of Blood Frenzy, if not for Blood Frenzy you'd take a Fury Warrior as they did a lot more dps.

I'm sorry if you remember wrongly but that's just how it was, Arms has never really had good dps in the old days. In Vanilla by the time Warrior was valued outside of tanking in PVE was in Naxx when Fury was super strong due to scaling, and even while tanking you were playing Fury for most of Vanilla, so really Arms was just a PVP spec.

[RedGamer030]

Play Fury, or Protection.

[catablitz]

Real men in vanilla used to go two hand fury! But yes, arms dps was like ret paladin. After BWL it was all fury.

[Sal the Shieldhog]

Arms was good for tanking in Vanilla too - no Prot Warrior really worth their salt took more than 15 or so points in the Protection tree (and Fury was even better at it later on).

[Valkaneer]

That's not really true either. (Pure) Fury was doodoo up until the second BWL patch that changed Bloodthirst into a direct attack and later itemization made the spec functional between AQ and Naxx. While Arms was still very much relevant for it's debuffs, Fury quickly overtook it in ST DPS throughout pretty much all of TBC due to much better itemization, returns on Hit, Haste and later ArP, and while Arms was strong early in Wrath due largely to Fury's lack of necessary stat amounts, Fury ended up dominating by the end for both ST and AoE.

Regardless, and I can't stress this enough, it really doesn't matter what Arms or Fury have been in the past. The game evolves, design direction changes, and classes play differently as a result. What they did in the past, especially 6+ years ago, has very little bearing on the present.

Arms didn't go full blown AoE till WoD, yes there was some AoE before, but the % of damage from AoE compared to ST was nothing like it is in WoD. But even in MoP we started to see the AoE slam garbage which was really the first step really toward making Arms and AoE spec. Now in Legion that has been toned back down and you can at least chose now which you want to do. I know Fury did better ST and AoE at the highest gear levels but that normally took near 30% crit on Fury to obtain that. Even at that Arms always use to lead in the first and even mid part of and X pac due to fury's gear needs.

So 2 - 3 years out of 12 at best you could say Arms had AoE heavy damage. Because I do believe that the MoP AoE slam spec really only took off in SoO if I remember correctly. For the vast majority of Wow Rend was ST, OP ST, MS is ST, Slam was ST, HS St. You had to use SS to make any of them hit more than one, and still that's not really AoE. Bladestorm I'd say was Arms first real AoE ability and it has a large CD. You can go from vanilla through Cata and your top three most common damage skills are probably not AoE. While that is not going to be the same at all from Fury, WW will be on that list.

I guess we should all just forget the good X pacs like WotLK, BC, because the are old and just expect WoD type of X pacs because that is the present right? Lets not forget every class and spec has it's lore and fantasy, you just can't change that because a new team just wants to change 10 years of precedence.

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Arms was good for tanking in Vanilla too - no Prot Warrior really worth their salt took more than 15 or so points in the Protection tree (and Fury was even better at it later on).

MT always went full prot, OT did not. Shield Slam was the lvl 31 point talent and any half decent MT took it. 10/5/36 main tank spec was the norm.

[Archimtiros]

Arms didn't go full blown AoE till WoD, yes there was some AoE before, but the % of damage from AoE compared to ST was nothing like it is in WoD. But even in MoP we started to see the AoE slam garbage which was really the first step really toward making Arms and AoE spec.

None of that has anything to do with what I wrote, seeing as I didn't mention AoE.

I guess we should all just forget the good X pacs like WotLK, BC, because the are old and just expect WoD type of X pacs because that is the present right? Lets not forget every class and spec has it's lore and fantasy, you just can't change that because a new team just wants to change 10 years of precedence.

Not necessarily, but you should stop looking for precedent in things. The designers don't care and the game has evolved considerably, both mechanically and in it's design philosophy. A large portion of them aren't even the same designers.

[Deleted]

lol, what are you talking about? CS is pretty cool, it's super awesome to chain executes into it in WoD, just like it was awesome to chain slams into it in MoP