1. #6001
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt0193 View Post
    They admitted that no one in their office plays a Sub Rogue, so I wouldn't be surprised if no one plays a Ret as a main spec or with any competence.
    then hire some f ppl as dev that main ret and have some achievements on it from fucking wow and are known in a community fucking retarded blizz... are they that dense wtf
    Last edited by Ianus; 2016-05-28 at 05:51 PM.

  2. #6002
    Do we have any simcrafts available yet if anyone knows? @Solsacra since you are sim god whats the damage.

  3. #6003
    Warchief Teleros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulthane View Post
    Do we have any simcrafts available yet if anyone knows? @Solsacra since you are sim god whats the damage.
    No SimCraft for Ret yet, but the bleeding edge builds have a few other specs in.

    (Speaking of such stuff @Hekili check your PMs )

  4. #6004
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulthane View Post
    Do we have any simcrafts available yet if anyone knows? @Solsacra since you are sim god whats the damage.
    Yes, the Ret module is updated. Proto APL is also implemented too. I'm not sharing anything yet because A) i'm not 100% confident all the bugs are worked out, and B) i'm not confident the APL is near optimal yet. I don't want to share something that can be misconstrued elsewhere.

  5. #6005
    Quote Originally Posted by Solsacra View Post
    Yes, the Ret module is updated. Proto APL is also implemented too. I'm not sharing anything yet because A) i'm not 100% confident all the bugs are worked out, and B) i'm not confident the APL is near optimal yet. I don't want to share something that can be misconstrued elsewhere.
    Understandable 100%. Thank you though for an update on that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Well so far on the beta id like to point out ive tested both Fires vs Zeal and found there really is no difference between the two when it comes down to how many TV's or JV i will pump.

    Rotation regarding JV
    -Zeal, BoW, Zeal, Zeal, HoJ, Judge, JV

    Rotation regarding TV
    -Zeal, BoW, Zeal, Zeal, Judge, TV, BoW, TV

    it flows together nicely and i always seem to have something available nearly however the problems are as follows
    -Defensives
    -Mobility
    -Hard target swaps.

    If any of those occur to screw me the entire system is juked. But at least uptime on Patchwerk like is okay.

  6. #6006
    Quote Originally Posted by Solsacra View Post
    Yes, the Ret module is updated. Proto APL is also implemented too. I'm not sharing anything yet because A) i'm not 100% confident all the bugs are worked out, and B) i'm not confident the APL is near optimal yet. I don't want to share something that can be misconstrued elsewhere.
    Thanks a bunch for your work, Solsacra. We all really appreciate your dedication to teh maths; at least I know I do =)

  7. #6007
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Solsacra View Post
    Yes, the Ret module is updated. Proto APL is also implemented too. I'm not sharing anything yet because A) i'm not 100% confident all the bugs are worked out, and B) i'm not confident the APL is near optimal yet. I don't want to share something that can be misconstrued elsewhere.
    Good to hear that you aren't going to rush things out , this could otherwise throw even more fuel to the fire than there is already.
    Is there a ETA when we could exept a first version going out?

    And thanks for your work there mate.

  8. #6008
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianus View Post
    then hire some f ppl as dev that main ret and have some achievements on it from fucking wow and are known in a community fucking retarded blizz... are they that dense wtf
    Blizzard hires in a broad sense not for specific classes and such. Also from what I've heard Sub for Rogues is actually pretty good now.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance #TeamNoBlueHorde

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  9. #6009
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt0193 View Post
    They admitted that no one in their office plays a Sub Rogue, so I wouldn't be surprised if no one plays a Ret as a main spec or with any competence.
    Metzen does, IIRC. But he's basically on Overwatch now, and wasn't on class development even when he was on WoW.
    OMG 13:37 - Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Cleave unto me, and I shall grant to thee the blessing of eternal salvation."

    And His disciples said unto Him, "Can we get Kings instead?"

  10. #6010
    Quote Originally Posted by Lumineus View Post
    Metzen does, IIRC. But he's basically on Overwatch now, and wasn't on class development even when he was on WoW.
    Which is a shame truly :<

  11. #6011
    So, I just recently got to try ret on the beta, what is everyone thinking for a talent build? Right now I'm using Final Verdict, Zeal, Blade of Wrath, and Divine Purpose. I'm not sure if that's even close to optimal, but I don't think those are the straight up worst choices. I mean, Crusade feels really bad. At least while leveling, it seems like it's a damage loss over no talent, because Avenging Wrath is just so good. And Equality doesn't seem like it even holds a candle to DP. I tried out Greater Judgment and that seemed pretty weak, but I could see it being good on some kind of 3 target cleave fight like Iron Maidens. Put the Judgment debuff on everything then Divine Storm the fuck out of them. I haven't really tried out a lot of other combinations yet. The value of some talents will clearly change how you value certain stats though, like crit having an inflated value if you take the 3x crit damage talent for Blade of Justice. Divine Purpose would also gain value as you get more major traits for your artifact weapon.

    Honestly it seems there's a shit ton of options, and if I know wow, all but one or two of them will be just plain wrong.

  12. #6012
    Warchief Teleros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulthane View Post
    Which is a shame truly :<
    Depends - I don't think he's ever done stuff beyond art and narrative design. Maybe in the WC1/WC2 days?

    = + =

    Quote Originally Posted by Laurcus View Post
    Honestly it seems there's a shit ton of options, and if I know wow, all but one or two of them will be just plain wrong.
    This.

  13. #6013
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulthane View Post
    Rotation regarding JV
    -Zeal, BoW, Zeal, Zeal, HoJ, Judge, JV

    Rotat
    Don't do this unless the mob is stunned. It's more DPS per holy power spent to use TV. JV is really good to use on a stunned mob (so use stuns offensively on mobs that are not immune) and on DP procs.

  14. #6014
    Quote Originally Posted by Thete View Post
    Don't do this unless the mob is stunned. It's more DPS per holy power spent to use TV. JV is really good to use on a stunned mob (so use stuns offensively on mobs that are not immune) and on DP procs.
    If you see HoJ is in there before Judgment. Im only doing it if i can stun them.

  15. #6015
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulthane View Post
    If you see HoJ is in there before Judgment. Im only doing it if i can stun them.
    Just have to be clear that it isn't a rotation. In fact, using JV technically reduces the number of stuns you'd have available.

  16. #6016
    Quote Originally Posted by Thete View Post
    Just have to be clear that it isn't a rotation. In fact, using JV technically reduces the number of stuns you'd have available.
    And to be fair it won't happen on bosses simply because of target immune. Its more or less random burst numbers that come in on trash, leveling mobs etc. Otherwise its TV all the way. Leveling and random mobs: Where it doesn't matter.

    - - - Updated - - -

    JV, reduces the stuns you will have but only use while the target is stunned but bad because reduces stuns you will have. Logic

  17. #6017
    Warchief Teleros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solsacra View Post
    Yes, the Ret module is updated. Proto APL is also implemented too. I'm not sharing anything yet because A) i'm not 100% confident all the bugs are worked out, and B) i'm not confident the APL is near optimal yet. I don't want to share something that can be misconstrued elsewhere.
    Excellent stuff .

    Only thing I might suggest @Solsacra is talking to @Hekili, as it would be good to make sure his addon is up to date. Copying the APL into it should be no problem, but if there are any new things it might be good to make sure his addon can handle them.

  18. #6018
    Quote Originally Posted by Thyr View Post
    I've just realized that even a fucking enh shaman got a gap closer and still has access to ghost wolf... idk but it seems that blizzard does a massive crusade against ret paladins.
    And enh got range stun

  19. #6019
    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    Excellent stuff .

    Only thing I might suggest @Solsacra is talking to @Hekili, as it would be good to make sure his addon is up to date. Copying the APL into it should be no problem, but if there are any new things it might be good to make sure his addon can handle them.
    I still have to actually rewrite all the Paladin spells and convert to the new module system I'll be using for Legion.
    Hekili of <Turbo Cyborg Ninjas>
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  20. #6020
    Quote Originally Posted by Snegovik View Post
    And enh got range stun
    Reasons i dont feel bad suggesting op stuff

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