Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Kyanion]

Nortaltius did nothing wrong. They weren't selling their game. They preserved the code. I've heard that many of the Nostraltiums people were charity workers in their local communities. Helping poor kids with their daily chores while running a couple of servers. Then Blizzard came and sued them for nothing and now they're going to jail.

I played in Nortsalsimus for three months and had a lvl 60 orc warrior. Back then warriors and orcs were so cool. We had Durotar and Barrens and even Ashvenvale was Horde territory. I used to roleplay a monk warrior Horde who likes to pray to God.

Anyway. Norteraliums should be allowed to run again. I'm gonna sue Blizzard for destroying my lvl 60 orc warrior on that server.

...You went a bit over the top with your attempt at being trolly/jokey?

[Gadzooks]

inc ad hominem accusations, thereby completely discrediting the entire basis of your (imo) rather well-constructed counter-argument.

If he's true to form, he'll dismiss it all as "mumbo jumbo" and call Surfd a troll.

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Sure some of that makes perfect sense and I can agree with that despite being Anti-Legacy. I also don't believe there is much in actual code they can use because it was done on an emulator and most of it wouldn't carry over. That is the disconnect on a lot of the discussion. Most of us know better to think the coding on an emulator is of major use to Blizz.

As far as the flagship lagging in popularity it remains to be seen what will happen in Legion, it might be just the boost WoW needs...then again I'm sure Overwatch is making them fat stacks of cash right now so it probably does not bother them too much if WoW is not bringing in as much money as it used to.

True - Overwatch and Hearthstone pay the bills now - but I'm sure the WoW team would like to see their game do as well as possible. They can't be all happy with losing subs like how WOD did - and losing sales to illegal servers. Legion I think is a small step back to what players want...we'll see, you're right.

[Kyanion]

If he's true to form, he'll dismiss it all as "mumbo jumbo" and call Surfd a troll.

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True - Overwatch and Hearthstone pay the bills now - but I'm sure the WoW team would like to see their game do as well as possible. They can't be all happy with losing subs like how WOD did - and losing sales to illegal servers. Legion I think is a small step back to what players want...we'll see, you're right.

I think personally, at least from what I've seen in beta myself and watched as far as MMO-champ info, that Legion should be in a good spot. I think the focus back on dungeon content being relevant is nothing but a positive. Alts will be worthwhile again because there will be plenty of artifact power to grind while doing dungeons/raids and the 110 content. PvP is the one I know the least about but I'm actually willing to try and pvp with my friends where I've not really been into PvP since TBC. That is mainly because of the PvP talent tree for my class will be a different playstyle for me than PvE rotations and the like.

I mean I don't see any reason for them to announce Legacy until Legion has been out quite a while, but if we are talking Blizzcon...

So let us assume Legion comes out and does well. Might not hit 10mil again like the launch of WoD, but if it does well why would Blizz then turn around and announce Legacy? If Legion does not do well then they announce Legacy people will assume they are abandoning expansions beyond Legion. They are in such a no win position it feels like.

When would be a good time to announce Legacy if they ever decided to do it? Blizzcon? Well not this year because they'd likely be revealing new content coming out later in Legion. Blizzcon 2017? Might be the announce time for the expansion after Legion. I dunno, just seems like best time would be like a year from now where Legion has been out over 6 months and there is time before Blizzcon.

[Surfd]

Well glad you finally understand what has been said and can finally stop saying that Blizzard cant use anything from Nost. Are you done trolling?

/facepalm with both hands for 10 didgits.

[Deleted]

So let us assume Legion comes out and does well. Might not hit 10mil again like the launch of WoD, but if it does well why would Blizz then turn around and announce Legacy? If Legion does not do well then they announce Legacy people will assume they are abandoning expansions beyond Legion. They are in such a no win position it feels like.

I don't really get why people find it so hard to believe the modern version of wow and the old one can co-exist, and are not mutually exclusive.

They are simply not designed for the same people, and people who like both versions will play both. I'm sure looking forward playing LEgion and the upcoming expansions, but I'm also looking forward playing wow vanilla. It's not as if the scarce amount of content in wow's modern expansions doesn't allow to play several games at the same time.

[Deleted]

Stop moving the goalposts to think we're saying Blizzard can't adapt the code or Blizzard can't do anything. No one is saying Blizzard can't do anything.

But that is exactly what you ignorants and that Scraf tryhard 'IMADEVONTHEINTERNETMYOPINUIONISABSOLUTE' keep saying while ironically placing strawman absolutes into everyone else mouth so you actually have something of substance to refute, in contrast to the mountains of clueless, baseless and ignorant speculation and various objectively false claims or as you like to refer to it 'arguments' that where made by the anti legacy crowd for 1000 pages.

No they absolutely can't use any of that...
No they absolutely can't learn anything of that...
No they absolutely wont do that...
If you don't believe my baseless opinion is absolute truth you are mental, dumb and stupid, because im a developer for the US navy seals and have 20 combat kills and I know my shit !
Wow great argument there fellow ignorant, this proves everyone wrong now lets imply everyone who doesnt take this fallacious and baseless bullshit serious is just an ignorant!
B-but we arent using absolutes, its you with your statements 'they could' and 'lets see' 'it could be' ! Don't mind all our posts doing exactly that just one page earlier. Leave mealone with your silly quotes exposing my hypocrisy! I wont answer to that!

[Kyanion]

I don't really get why people find it so hard to believe the modern version of wow and the old one can co-exist, and are not mutually exclusive.

They are simply not designed for the same people, and people who like both versions will play both. I'm sure looking forward playing LEgion and the upcoming expansions, but I'm also looking forward playing wow vanilla. It's not as if the scarce amount of content in wow's modern expansions doesn't allow to play several games at the same time.

You may think they can co-exist I am skeptical. I don't want to see current WoW harmed by Legacy realms if they flop. I am also skeptical that many people would play both versions but that really depends on how the sub fees would break down.

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But that is exactly what you ignorants and that Scraf tryhard "IMADEVONTHEINTERNETMYOPINUIONISABSOLUTE" keep saying while ironically placing strawman absolutes into everyone else mouth to spin the situation that you ignorant deniers keep making clueless and many objectively false speculations for 1000 pages.

Lol nice, call people ignorant, use some terms from logic class and then my favorite one: "objectively false speculations". You DO know that an objective claim is a statement about a factual matter-one that can be proved true or false. So are you going to prove these objective speculations false? With what exactly? See, what is ACTUALLY happening is that the claims are 'subjective claims' which means: "subjective claims are statements that are based on one's personal standards. The statements made cannot be proven to be true or false. They are simply beliefs and/or opinions of oneself." Which is EXACTLY what people are using in these threads.

Go hit the logic books and critical thinking books a bit harder before you whirl into this thread and try to blast people with your knowledge.

[Deleted]

"objectively false speculations".

I made a typo leaving out the "claims and" and fixed that the that already.
Objectively false claims are stuff like mathematically impossible cost of running a WoW server or loss of all code.
Ignorant speculation is bullshit like 'Blizzard won't/can't do this and that because I believe so'.

Thanks for explaining the obvious superhero.

[Deleted]

You may think they can co-exist I am skeptical. I don't want to see current WoW harmed by Legacy realms if they flop. I am also skeptical that many people would play both versions but that really depends on how the sub fees would break down.

Of course they can coexist. Old wow was designed with RPG players in mind (think dice, pen and paper), where the modern wow is designed with video games players in mind.

Also blizzard could start a kickstarter campaign for the legacy servers (even though I really don't think much investment is needed, we re talking about a game running on 10 years old server hardware).

[Kyanion]

I made a typo leaving out the "claims and" and fixed that the that already so it makes sense. Thanks for explaining the obivous superhero.

K still does not matter as you are using the wrong term for what people are using in these statements. They are subjective claims not objective. You are welcome for having the obvious explained.

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Of course they can coexist. Old wow was designed with RPG players in mind (think dice, pen and paper), where the modern wow is designed with video games players in mind.

Also blizzard could start a kickstarter campaign for the legacy servers (even though I really don't think much investment is needed, we re talking about a game running on 10 years old server hardware).

In your view you believe that can coexist and that is fine. I just happen to disagree. I know what old WoW was designed around considering I was playing EQ when WoW was in beta and I know what the appeal was. It was an easier/more polished version of EQ with many tweaks and QoL improvements. I think Vanilla was great for its time but would have limited long lasting appeal outside of a hardcore group of people. Is that enough to make it worthwhile as an investment? Hell if I know.

And do you really think Blizzard would start a Kickstarter campaign for creating legacy servers? They are not hurting on money. If they felt it was a financially viable long term money maker for them they would likely do it. Do they want to compromise past statements about wanting to keep the game moving forward and the story/lore moving forward? Maybe. Maybe not.

[Atherius]

You may think they can co-exist I am skeptical. I don't want to see current WoW harmed by Legacy realms if they flop. I am also skeptical that many people would play both versions but that really depends on how the sub fees would break down.

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Lol nice, call people ignorant, use some terms from logic class and then my favorite one: "objectively false speculations". You DO know that an objective claim is a statement about a factual matter-one that can be proved true or false. So are you going to prove these objective speculations false? With what exactly? See, what is ACTUALLY happening is that the claims are 'subjective claims' which means: "subjective claims are statements that are based on one's personal standards. The statements made cannot be proven to be true or false. They are simply beliefs and/or opinions of oneself." Which is EXACTLY what people are using in these threads.

Go hit the logic books and critical thinking books a bit harder before you whirl into this thread and try to blast people with your knowledge.

Valid concern. It's really hard to predict the outcome since the release of a legacy server will without a doubt attract a lot of retail players given it is released at a point where most people have done the existing content in retail. Let's say it was released today. Most people are having a break untill Legion, or are casually playing. If the legacy version would require a subscription (99% sure it will), the current playerbase combined would skyrocket for a few months, and then drop down once nostalgia wears off. I'm basing this off this graph: http://www.misplaceditems.com/rs_tools/graph/
It shows the playercount when Old School Runescape was released. Notice the decline of players as the time goes. This will without a doubt happen to legacy servers as well. The question is if the the players who chose legacy over retail will return to retail when the next expansion/patch is released.

Edit: Just mentioning why the current numbers show OSRS and EOC with the same ammount of players:
The old school version is being updated by a dedicated team, and is a totally different game from EOC. I don't think this is comparable to legacy and retail wow. I'm just using the first part of the graph

[Icoblablubb]

But that is exactly what you ignorants and that Scraf tryhard 'IMADEVONTHEINTERNETMYOPINUIONISABSOLUTE' keep saying while ironically placing strawman absolutes into everyone else mouth so you actually have something of substance to refute, in contrast to the mountains of clueless, baseless and ignorant speculation and various objectively false claims or as you like to refer to it 'arguments' that where made by the anti legacy crowd for 1000 pages.

No they absolutely can't use any of that...
No they absolutely can't learn anything of that...
No they absolutely wont do that...
If you don't believe my baseless opinion is absolute truth you are mental, dumb and stupid, because im a developer for the US navy seals and have 20 combat kills and I know my shit !
Wow great argument there fellow ignorant, this proves everyone wrong now lets imply everyone who doesnt take this fallacious and baseless bullshit serious is just an ignorant!
B-but we arent using absolutes, its you with your statements 'they could' and 'lets see' 'it could be' ! Don't mind all our posts doing exactly that just one page earlier. Leave mealone with your silly quotes exposing my hypocrisy! I wont answer to that!

the same goes for pro legacy guys .. but whatever *we* anti legacy alrdy know u pro legacy like to bash everyone who actually likes blizz and is still playing WoW even with that content drought we are such bad people how dare we support something that enjoyed us for 10+ years

[Deleted]

And do you really think Blizzard would start a Kickstarter campaign for creating legacy servers? They are not hurting on money.

I don't know, I m only suggesting the idea given a lot of people are concerned about the financial viability of the project. I sure know I would support such a campaign.

It shows the playercount when Old School Runescape was released. Notice the decline of players as the time goes. This will without a doubt happen to legacy servers as well. The question is if the the players who chose legacy over retail will return to retail when the next expansion/patch is released.

I don't really think the fact a wow vanilla server exists would impact on the subscription number of wow retail. If the new content is amazing people would play it, if it is bad, people won't play it. The fact there is a vanilla server has no impact on the quality of the content released.

The population number of nostalrius has been steadily increasing over one year though.

[Deleted]

K still does not matter as you are using the wrong term for what people are using in these statements. They are subjective claims not objective. You are welcome for having the obvious explained.

No the use of obectively wrong here is correct. It doesn't matter that they also made subjective statements. The context was explicitely extended to the past 1000 pages at the end of my post, not the immediate argument form the quoted post. Thanks, but as can be seen I already and immediately fixed the typos that fucked up the sentence I made while you where answering my post and your further 'corrections' are just wrong or make no sense.

[Kyanion]

Valid concern. It's really hard to predict the outcome since the release of a legacy server will without a doubt attract a lot of retail players given it is released at a point where most people have done the existing content in retail. Let's say it was released today. Most people are having a break untill Legion, or are casually playing. If the legacy version would require a subscription (99% sure it will), the current playerbase combined would skyrocket for a few months, and then drop down once nostalgia wears off. I'm basing this off this graph: http://www.misplaceditems.com/rs_tools/graph/
It shows the playercount when Old School Runescape was released. Notice the decline of players as the time goes. This will without a doubt happen to legacy servers as well. The question is if the the players who chose legacy over retail will return to retail when the next expansion/patch is released.

Yeah but I try to avoid Runescape as a comparison because it shares some other things that you wouldn't like if trying to compare it to WoW. For example that petition that people love to point to. 250k-300k or wherever it is at now. Runescape had a similiar petition that hit like 500k people saying they'd want those realms and I don't even think they hit 100k on release.

And is it a good thing if they release and then lose players in just a few months? We don't know how much money it needs to pull in per month to be worth the bother of starting up in the first place. See the problem with Nostalgia and even released games is so many of them now have struggles making it out of the first month. That is something I consider when thinking about a nostalgia factor in WoW. I mean hell, I don't even WANT Vanilla if we were going to get some form of Legacy realms. I'd much rather have TBC or WotLK. Why start with Vanilla? It wasn't even the most popular of the first few years of the game.

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Edit: Just mentioning why the current numbers show OSRS and EOC with the same ammount of players:
The old school version is being updated by a dedicated team, and is a totally different game from EOC. I don't think this is comparable to legacy and retail wow. I'm just using the first part of the graph

No worries, I made the point on the numbers I was trying to make and not evening comparing the size of people playing on either version.

[Deleted]

the same goes for pro legacy guys .. but whatever *we* anti legacy alrdy know u pro legacy like to bash everyone who actually likes blizz and is still playing WoW even with that content drought we are such bad people how dare we support something that enjoyed us for 10+ years

You are right on the first part.

Oh noes he agreed.

Except pro legacy speculate in their interest and even if you make errors in your path thats completly justified (as long its not dishonestly made errors). Thats just part of bargaining. While many of the the few but very vocal anti legacy people are well known fanboys who likely don't even really care about pro or anti legacy, that always speculate in interest of Blizzard and Blizzard never being wrong and imperfect about anything unless they aleady admitted it on their own (and somehow managed to blame player for it along with it) and same people keep repeating even debunked objectively wrong 'information' like the fabricated costs to run WoW servers in the +$30.000/server/day ranges (or candidly implicitely refering to it knowing that they can be countered if they just say it straight ) even over various threads because their goal is not to come to a conclusion anyone can agree with, but to detract from a threat of a conclusion that somehow 'wrongs' Blizzard earlier position.

These people will hail the legacy server as a success the second Blizzard changes their mind and adds some and they turn out successful. Just like some of them hailed Blizzard decission to add flying and argue against people complaining about the consqueuences and then the same poster hail the decission to remove it and then some of them even hail the decission to add it again.

[Kyanion]

the same goes for pro legacy guys .. but whatever *we* anti legacy alrdy know u pro legacy like to bash everyone who actually likes blizz and is still playing WoW even with that content drought we are such bad people how dare we support something that enjoyed us for 10+ years

See I wouldn't mind having a fair discussion about things but people love to whip out that comment really quickly. You like Blizz? You like them so much you are willing to play on private servers witholding revenue from Blizz. While I am a loyal customer and have been since Vanilla am a villian here? Yes the content drought sucks ass, but I'm willing to give Blizz a pass or two (and this would be the 2nd after the long drought in MoP) and hope that Legion will fix a lot of the problems I see in the game.

Some of us have been playing the game just as long or even longer than some of the Pro-Legacy people. Some of the pro-Legacy people never played Vanilla when it was retail and only have PS to go on. Many of us wouldn't enjoy playing the old version of the game a second time and I feel that many players might share that sentiment and try it out only to drop it a month or two later. If that was to happen I am worried that money would be pulled from retail to other projects because WoW just might have shot itself in the foot with Legacy.

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I don't really think the fact a wow vanilla server exists would impact on the subscription number of wow retail. If the new content is amazing people would play it, if it is bad, people won't play it. The fact there is a vanilla server has no impact on the quality of the content released.

The population number of nostalrius has been steadily increasing over one year though.

Yeah but we only got to see a year into Nost with a what 83% drop rate on a free realm that is supposedly WoW's golden era? That was not encouraging to me. I have no idea how the addition of Legacy would impact retail, I'm just worried that it would harm retail in the long run if Legacy was to fail.

[Deleted]

If that was to happen I am worried that money would be pulled from retail to other projects because WoW just might have shot itself in the foot with Legacy.

Please, money is already pulled from retail to fund other projects. We only had 2 patches in WoD compared to the other expansions and the worst content drought in wow history. There never was an expansion with as little content as WoD.

The expansion is filled with half finished stuff (like shattrah).

Yeah but we only got to see a year into Nost with a what 83% drop rate on a free realm that is supposedly WoW's golden era? That was not encouraging to me. I have no idea how the addition of Legacy would impact retail, I'm just worried that it would harm retail in the long run if Legacy was to fail.

1 year is still very long and I didn't play on nostalrius because it wasn't an official server. Also, I think you overestimate the cost involved with running legacy servers. Blizzard has merely to scale the legacy servers to the amount of people interested. I mean, nobody is asking for premium customer support and content patchs on legacy servers, so a PTR like experience would be enough.

On a side note, on nostalrius, there were a lot of guilds running 40 man raids.

[Kyanion]

Please, money is already pulled from retail to fund other projects. We only had 2 patches in WoD compared to the other expansions and the worst content drought in wow history. There never was an expansion with as little content as WoD.

Yes but those other projects weren't in direct competition with Legacy WoW itself as they were other genres of games. This would be basically a 2nd MMO to compete with the already existing MMO.

[Leithz]

Yes but those other projects weren't in direct competition with Legacy WoW itself as they were other genres of games. This would be basically a 2nd MMO to compete with the already existing MMO.

WoW Vanilla has pretty much nothing in common with our current WoW. It would definitely interest a different crowd.