The Liberal Blind Spot

[Eviscero]

There are characteristics of evangelicalism, for example absolutism, which are quite simply incongruent with intellectual discourse. If one proclaims to know, beyond all doubt, the deepest truths of the universe, one becomes incapable of engaging in meaningful discussion because all forms of communication are necessarily reduced to proselytization.

Asking for room to 'discuss' evangelical ideologies is really just asking for space to shout into.

[Pangean]

Sorry the Neutral Chaotic Nihilists are the group to join. Not your politically compromised wishy-washiness.

[matt4pack]

Many liberal's at least the regressive ones don't even really care about the views unless the person with those views is white. All they care about is race. If they cared about views they wouldn't be defending islam at every turn which is in complete contradiction to their views.

[alexw]

This kind of reasoning could lead one to justifying all kinds of bigotry itself. I mean after all, Muslims have been... "quite the force" in terrorism. I wouldn't want to hire one after seeing all the things they've done!

Err no. You are doing what others have done and conflated different things. Evangelical = Islamist. Muslim = Christian. Evangelical ≠ Muslim. Islamist ≠ Christian.

It is the intolerant extremes that are the issue in that they try to force their beliefs on everyone else. Both extreme Christians (evangelicals) and extreme Muslims (Islamists) do this.

[SirBeef]

So does gender. As we all know in the current year, gender is a social construct that is performed, not something that's hardcoded. If someone thinks they're a woman and acts out gender as a woman, well damn it, she's a woman.

Thats gender identy not gender. Gender IS hard coded. you are born male or female, mostly, your brain may think otherwise. That is where the gender identity issues arise.

[unbound]

While Kristof is a very intelligent person, when he misses the mark, he tends to miss it by miles.

As some examples:
- Kristof was one of the big pushers that Steven Hatfill was a likely culprit for the 2001 anthrax attacks. He later apologized in 2008 for what he wrote, but the damage was done.
- He is against the anti-sweatshop movement excusing bad behavior of the sweatshop owners as being better than things that could be worse.
- He actually argued that unions encourage members to accept low wages (one of the two most bizarre and easily disproven claims he's written to date).
- He argued that flame retardants are part of a chemical industry conspiracy (the other most bizarre and easily disproven claim).


In this case, he is missing the mark by miles by not acknowledging that what passes for conservative in the US is actually extremist conservatism. What many people claim to be US liberal or leftist is actually still quite a bit right of center. Bernie Sanders is actually much closer to being pure center than Hillary Clinton...much less the extremists that pass themselves off as mainstream conservatives in the US. Here is an image of reality.



Listen to the vast majority of conservatives in this country, and you'd think Obama is some extremist liberal. Here is another image of reality from the 2012 election.



It isn't that universities are pushing against conservatism in general...they are pushing against the massively extremist conservatism that passes as mainstream in the US. Kristof doesn't seem to understand that the conservatives of his childhood are quite a ways to the left of the mainstream Democrats of today.

Seriously. Go back and read all the things the Reagan actually said. Learn about the things that he actually did. Don't accept the BS rhetoric from the GOP...go and find out for yourself. He wouldn't qualify to be a Democrat today.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

If I use the term conservative or liberal, it's usually as a neutral descriptive term. In the past year I've said "Some liberals are crazy" and yet I still consider myself liberal.

[Kraenen]

It is the intolerant extremes that are the issue in that they try to force their beliefs on everyone else. Both extreme Christians (evangelicals) and extreme Muslims (Islamists) do this.

That's all besides the point. He wanted to justify bigotry against an Evangelical because other Evangelicals have done bad things.

[Eviscero]

Thats gender identy not gender. Gender IS hard coded. you are born male or female, mostly, your brain may think otherwise. That is where the gender identity issues arise.

Sure, ignoring all the subtleties of 'non wildtype' individuals with chromosomal abnormalities. I guess they aren't really people at that point, right so they don't count?

[Osmeric]

I think the US needs a massive deemphasis of college education. It's wasteful and pointless for most who go there.

[Deleted]

I think the US needs a massive deemphasis of college education. It's wasteful and pointless for most who go there.

Not really everyone who takes a trade does well.

People who join the cult suffer but really if they were dumb enough to do that it was their lot in life to suffer.

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Sure, ignoring all the subtleties of 'non wildtype' individuals with chromosomal abnormalities. I guess they aren't really people at that point, right so they don't count?

Well if we are being 100% honest they suffer from mental disorders and/or are claiming so for attention. The former should be treated not enabled the latter should be mocked.

[alexw]

They tend to be engineers or go straight into stem. Most don't share your interpretive dance course.

Err the vast majority of STEM which I met quite a few of during my hard science PhD, are liberal. They tend to use evidence based analysis to arrive at their beliefs which tends to rule out the trickle down economics believing, global warming denying, immigrant hating side of the political spectrum.

I mean us highly educated folks know from the evidence that trickle down economics is a load of utter garbage so why would be align ourselves with it?
We also know from the mountains of evidence available that mankind is causing the earth to warm (2016 on track to be the warmest year on record by a large margin), so why should we align ourselves with the reality denialists?
We also know the history of the united states, that it was built on immigration, and given how we routinely interact with individuals who come from diverse backgrounds why should be hate them for having a different skin color?

FYI In a 2009 survey 9% of scientists describe themselves as conservative while 66% described themselves as liberal or very liberal.

[Auxora]

Each partisan side has their own areas of strength in propaganda as it were. Liberals historically have been more of the majority in colleges and universities, and especially in the last 10-15 years in tv and radio media far right conservatives are way more of a majority. It's pretty tough for conservatives to complain about universities when you look at tv/radio media. Rush Limbaugh, all of Fox News, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilley, Glenn Beck, etc. etc. etc. And all of them are very far right. It's actually difficult to find progressive radio hosts and the few that are out there are not household names like any of the above. Our largest local longtime radio personality is very far right too, and he's wacky far right, Friday he was referring to the Japanese as "Japs" and Muslims as something so derogatory I won't even repeat it. Printed media might be more left, but that's a dying area and even it's definitely not exclusively left as the OP quoted article is an example of.

And as for the comment that liberals call anyone conservative that doesn't agree with them, that's a pretty silly generalization. I've seen far more conservatives label anyone as liberal that isn't far right than the other way around. At a minimum that goes both ways. It's like anyone that labels someone as a SJW (or here, a fanboy) if they disagree with their opinion, whether they are one or not.

[Themius]

This kind of reasoning could lead one to justifying all kinds of bigotry itself. I mean after all, Muslims have been... "quite the force" in terrorism. I wouldn't want to hire one after seeing all the things they've done!

Not really going by our own government the two biggest threats are home grown terrorist and via militias and patriot types, and they are right.

Muslims haven't been "quite the force" as a whole because there are over a billion of them and the issues mostly lie within a few countries and their corrupt leaders, very little to do with the religion.

In America however we have had constant stalls in progress largely due to evangelicals.

[Deleted]

It isn't that universities are pushing against conservatism in general...they are pushing against the massively extremist conservatism that passes as mainstream in the US. Kristof doesn't seem to understand that the conservatives of his childhood are quite a ways to the left of the mainstream Democrats of today.

Is saying that a countries borders should be secured so as to remove the issue of illegal immigrants coming in extreme conservatism? Is criticizing a religion for what it stands for extreme conservatism? What about people coming in to do some talks that address topics like BLM and how the riots are actually harming their credibility as a group?

Also on an unrelated note - some people seem to encourage discrimination on some criteria but not others. Do you not see how that is an issue? There's a big difference between someone not getting hired because they have some nice opinions somewhere on the internet about how all black people should be sent to farm some good ol' cotton and someone not agreeing with having borders pretty much open to places like Mexico which is the #1 place for cool drug cartels to hang out as well as a nice source of immigrants which then come to a country an "achieve" a higher than average unemployment rate as well as a higher rate of committing crimes.

There's also the left notion that everyone regardless of sex and race is completely equal with everyone else. Saying that there is a difference in IQ based on race and gender is enough to ensure that you're not going to get hired because it's "racist" or "sexist" even if there is clear data showing that the distribution is different on average as well as on average when income is taken into consideration. There's also the nice fact that blacks have a better physical endurance and ability when compared to whites.

When it gets to a point where voicing opinions based on facts can lend you in a position where you will no longer be hired you know you have a problem with the way things are ran. Ignoring conclusions based by facts in favor of feelings is not something that should to be thought to people as in the end it always creates more issues i.e. lowering the performance of the workforce by enforcing quotas based on gender and race rather than relying on actual performance. #MoreWhiteMenInTheNBA

[Eviscero]

Well if we are being 100% honest they suffer from mental disorders and/or are claiming so for attention. The former should be treated not enabled the latter should be mocked.

I'm not talking about gender identity, I'm talking about people that do not have one of the two common chromosomal arrangements that defines a person's biological gender. I was responding to the claim that 'you are born either man or woman' which is simply ignorant.

[Spectral]

Err no. You are conflating different things. Muslim = Christian. Islamist = Evangelical I'm sure they would discriminate against Islamists just as much as they would against evangelicals. I.e. they discriminate against extremes as they feel those individuals would try to pass on some of their extreme beliefs in their teaching which is something universities don't want.

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Its not discriminating based on religion, but on their teaching. They don't care about what religion they hold but rather how that will influence their teaching. If someone says they believe gays are an abomination, that the earth is only 6000 years old and scientists saying otherwise are frauds, then they don't want to take the risk that that individual will try to impart to those beliefs to his or her students. That their belief system is so strong that they cannot hold it in check when it comes to student interaction. Now if that individual had said I am a Christian and regularly attend mass then the academic body would not give a damn.

This all hinges on the notion that Evangelicals are all radical Christian supremacists. That just ain't so.

[Deleted]

Err the vast majority of STEM which I met quite a few of during my hard science PhD, are liberal. They tend to use evidence based analysis to arrive at their beliefs which tends to rule out the trickle down economics believing, global warming denying, immigrant hating side of the political spectrum.

I mean us highly educated folks know from the evidence that trickle down economics is a load of utter garbage so why would be align ourselves with it?
We also know from the mountains of evidence available that mankind is causing the earth to warm (2016 on track to be the warmest year on record by a large margin), so why should we align ourselves with the reality denialists?
We also know the history of the united states, that it was built on immigration, and given how we routinely interact with individuals who come from diverse backgrounds why should be hate them for having a different skin color?

FYI In a 2009 survey 9% of scientists describe themselves as conservative while 66% described themselves as liberal or very liberal.

This is going to be an analogy that doesn't hit home exactly but is similar enough to warrant making it.

"We just did an experiment that showed that 99% of mice that ate our special diet of uber food TM in 2 generations all had black fur. Oh, on a side-note - we also removed all mice with different coloured fur from the experiment but that totally wouldn't invalidate the conclusion or make it questionable."

When currently exposing any kind of conservative or right views is grounds for you being fired or not hired appealing to authority in order to invalidate the same ideas that remove one from that position isn't the best argument to be making.

[Spectral]

I mean how "wrong" are they truly.... right leaning evangelicals have been... quite the force in legalized bigotry.

If your argument is literally that those people really are terrible so it's cool to discriminate against them, you should really think about the implications of this position.

[Themius]

If your argument is literally that those people really are terrible so it's cool to discriminate against them, you should really think about the implications of this position.

listen, I don't want to hear shit about how evangelicals are so so discriminated against while they were busy actively passing laws and blocking progress and actively discriminating.