The Void

[huth]

Space is another dimension.

As in x,y axis: As in 2 dimensional. You move from point A to point B... through space.

Wrong kind of dimension. We're not talking about the axes of a graph here.

You just described space. That what space is. Space is the absence of all things physical. Physical bodies resting in space but are not a part of space.

No, that's not what space is. Space is what those physical things exist in. If you were to describe existence as a collection of furniture, space would be the room.

[Radaney]

So, Void is less orderly than Disorder? =O

No it is equally less Order and Disorder, it's entirely devoid of both.

[steelballfc]

Right, but they're still part of reality.

I guess a layer is not the perfect comparison, nor can I properly articulate how I view it in my head.

let's call it Level of reality

[huth]

So, Void is less orderly than Disorder? =O

The concept doesn't apply to it. Asking how orderly the Void is is like asking how wet a radio wave is.

[Melsiren]

Equal Void lords

The Void Lords are probably my favorite part of the chronicles, and not because it proved my near decade long endeavour of believing there was something out there worse than Sarg.

Because their existence made so many things within the game lore make sense. I mean I'm 100% confident at some point the concept of the Void Lords was just the Old Gods. Since if you take the.... (Oh shit) Old Krasus quote and apply it to the Void lords, rather than the Old Gods suddenly we have a true statement, since we all know Sarg is scared shitless of the power of The Void Lords.

Pretty sure the cut Cho-gal content that was data mined during the Beta for WoD also was him communing with The Void Lords directly, though I could be horrifically wrong on that one.


The real question is, are all the Twilight Cult references also to The Void Lords? Does anyone other than Sarg and the Naaru even know The Void Lords exist?

let's call it Level of reality

Yeah that works.

[steelballfc]

The real question is, are all the Twilight Cult references also to The Void Lords? Does anyone other than Sarg and the Naaru even know The Void Lords exist?

at least Illidan knows

[Talgriv]

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Great_Dark_Beyond

The Great Dark Beyond is the place that's analogous to what we know as space. The giant black nothingness that exists between planets and stars.

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Twisting_Nether

The Twisting Nether, on the other hand, is an entirely separate dimension. It exists between worlds as well, however in the Astral Plane. Chronicles stated that it was formed when Light and Void mixed -- it's not on the physical plane, no, but physical objects can and do exist within it. Demons are known to travel through it, and the Outland is the part of Draenor that was pulled to there during the planet's destruction at the hands of the Legion.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

The real question is, are all the Twilight Cult references also to The Void Lords? Does anyone other than Sarg and the Naaru even know The Void Lords exist?

I doubt it. The Hammer seem to exclusively worship the old gods. I don't think the Void Lords are known of at all in present day Azeroth, that's why we've never heard of them. Even the Nathrezim worshippd the Old Gods, not the Void Lords.

[Ersula]

Wrong kind of dimension. We're not talking about the axes of a graph here.

No, that's not what space is. Space is what those physical things exist in. If you were to describe existence as a collection of furniture, space would be the room.

Do you have a better argument besides, "No"? Dimensions are dimensions: There's only one "kind". That's what people mean when people say "another dimension." Just more than the 4 we experience. In this case I'm saying the TN is one we can already perceive, because we do.

Even the Wowpedia page explaining the difference between the Great Dark Beyond & The Twisting Nether is a long, shitty fantheory with no citations.

[huth]

Do you have a better argument besides, "No"? Dimensions are dimensions: There's only one "kind". That's what people mean when people say "another dimension." Just more than the 4 we experience. In this case I'm saying the TN is one we can already perceive, because we do.

No, it isn't. Especially when we're talking about Science Fiction and Fantasy. In fact, for those, it's not even the primary definition, with "dimension" usually being taken to mean some sort sort of alternate or parallel world.

[Aquamonkey]

Even the Wowpedia page explaining the difference between the Great Dark Beyond & The Twisting Nether is a long, shitty fantheory with no citations.

The Great Dark Beyond
The Great Dark Beyond represents the physical universe. It is an infinite living realm composed of innumerable stars, worlds, and mortal civilizations.
Azeroth—the world of Warcraft—is merely one of the countless worlds drifting through the vast reaches of the Great Dark Beyond.

The Twisting Nether
The Twisting Nether is an astral dimension that lies in parallel with the Great Dark Beyond. The forces of Light and Void bleed together at the boundaries of the Twisting Nether, engulfing this realm in perpetual strife. At times, the volatile magics that pervade the Twisting Nether intrude upon the physical universe, warping reality beyond measure.

[...]

The energies released by the clash of Light and Void raged across the nascent cosmos, raw matter merging and spinning into primordial worlds without number. For long epochs, this ever-expanding universe—the Great Dark Beyond—broiled in a maelstrom of fire and magic.
The most unstable energies coalesced into an astral dimension known as the Twisting Nether. Light and Void collided and bled together at the edges of this realm, throwing it into turmoil. Although tangentially linked to the Great Dark Beyond, the Twisting Nether existed outside the borders of the physical universe. Even so, the Twisting Nether's volatile energies would occasionally tear through the veil of the Great Dark, flooding into reality and warping creation.
--Chronicle

The Great Dark Beyond is space. The Twisting Nether is another dimension that sometimes breaches into the Great Dark Beyond. Just because you don't understand the difference doesn't mean they're the same thing.

[SirBeef]

The elemental plane of shadow is called the Shadowlands, and it is where bad souls congregate. Deep inside the Shadowlands is a whole 'nother plane called "the void" which is essentially a place the WoW writers can reach in and pull out a new villain once this "Age of demons" is put to and end. So around expansion 9.

And the Twisting Nether is a flowery way of describing space. It's always space. A immaterial realm where terrifying invading creatures come from? Sounds like space to me. Azerothians have no word for outer space, but it's what they describe considering most have no concept of space travel, especially when most of their interplanetary travel involves portals.

The great dark beyond is the Warcraft universe's version of space or the universe. The TN is a parallel dimension of the GDB. Yes Azerothians do have a name for space. They call it the Great Dark Beyond. This is of course all official according to Chronicle Vol. 1.

[AbalDarkwind]

As for "The Great Dark Beyond." That is a very recent term, and likely due to the many different writers working on these terms.

My name is Aegwynn, and for over a thousand years I have wondered the realm of this world and endeavored to safeguard the people of its lands against the ethereal powers of the Great Dark Beyond. - Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness manual, p. 38

That term is, literally, 20 years old.

[GerdaroThePandaren]

So, from what i understood:

The Great Dark Beyond = Space
TN = Another reality, not physical.
Shadowlands, Emerald Dream, elemental planes = Layers of our physical reality
Void = Another reality, corresponding to absolute zero

And where the Old gods come from ? They are just "normal" beings from our reality ?

[Qualia]

And where the Old gods come from ? They are just "normal" beings from our reality ?

That's unclear at the moment, if I'm not wrong. They (the OGs) were described as creations of the Void Lords, "physical manifestation of the Void" given flesh, and being hurled around randomly in our physical universe by the Void Lords when they manifested. It wasn't stated (unless I missed it) whether the Old Gods were created in the Void, then the Void Lords brought them to our universe and tossed them around or the Old Gods were created in our universe by the manifested Void Lords before getting tossed around.

Personally, I think they were created in the Void, then brought to our universe by the Void Lords, but I'm not 100% sure either.

[TyrannicalPuppy]

And the Twisting Nether is a flowery way of describing space. It's always space. A immaterial realm where terrifying invading creatures come from? Sounds like space to me. Azerothians have no word for outer space, but it's what they describe considering most have no concept of space travel, especially when most of their interplanetary travel involves portals.

Space is called the Great Dark Beyond, what are you on about?

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Great_Dark_Beyond

The Twisting Nether exists outside of our physical plane as a sort of parallel reality.

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Yeah, just like people. That's why you need a space suit. Because the Nether is Spaaaaace.

Did you read Chronicle at all? Something tells me you're just pretending you read it while also not looking anything up on WoWPedia.

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Portal. He didn't travel through the "twisting nether" he took a portal from one planet, to another.

Portals are wormholes.

No. He took the portal directly to the Twisting Nether where Sargeras and all his demon hoards were waiting to be pulled into Azeroth.

I mean holy hell dude, do some research.

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Space is another dimension.

As in x,y axis: As in 2 dimensional. You move from point A to point B... through space.

You're just using fantasy's misnomer trope of equating alternate realities with dimensions. And like I said, the alternative is having 3 pointless different "incorporeal evil alternate realities" in the Void, Shadowlands & Twisting Nether. That would be stupid.

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You just described space. That what space is. Space is the absence of all things physical. Physical bodies resting in space but are not a part of space.

No for Christssake. The Twisting Nether is CONNECTED to the Great Dark Beyond. But it is NOT the Great Dark Beyond.

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Twisting_Nether

[Gaidax]

Twisting Nether and Great Dark Beyond is not the same thing, you can see this literally in the first pages of Chronicles stated clearly.

[steelballfc]

is the Twisting Nether the "shadowland" for the Nether in the reality ?!

[Qualia]

is the Twisting Nether the "shadowland" for the Nether in the reality ?!

Not sure I get your question. Twisting Nether is the Nether, they are just different names for the same thing. Shadowland doesn't seem to be Twisting Nether.

[steelballfc]

Not sure I get your question. Twisting Nether is the Nether, they are just different names for the same thing. Shadowland doesn't seem to be Twisting Nether.

what I mean that there is planet's after being corrupted by Demons magic it become part of the nether, which mean planet X is the Physical incarnation of the Twisting Nether in the Reality, so if we killed demon in non-nether planet the demon go back to the Twisting Nether "shadowland" and when it's time for the demon to go back to reality, the demon resurrect in one of the nether in the reality.