Does Bastion make you rage? I have some good news for you.

[TITAN308]

Yeah mcree having and instant stun and insane burst is pretty broken and counters pretty much every tank and short ranged char in the game with it and takes barely any skill to use since the stun has an AOE and then they are not moving so you don't need to aim his M2.

If you get caught 1 on 1 in close range you are suppose to die to McCree.

This is where the disconnect appears to be. I'm not sure how to break it down any further.

[Sky High]

well. knowing how powerful McCree is I just make a note to keep a close eye on them. most cases when I run into a McCree as a tank I at least manage to get away. better yet I shut him down or get him to fuck off for a while. Zarya's barrier blocks it if you time it well, if you get that and he fans you can walk right through him.

[Deleted]

I honestly don't mind McCree or Bastion, Mei and Roadhog are the two that piss me off the most, they perfectly counter each of my favorite heroes.

[Raetary]

bastion is easy.
i know how to deal with him.
but mccrees fcking stun -> right click
just makes me burn in nerd rage.

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I don't understand. I hardly even SEE McCrees on the enemy team. I don't think I've ever died to one, ever. I don't get how people can say he's OP. And he's squishy too, he has what, 200, 250 health? Something like that? You can take that down in like 3 seconds.

because flashbang -> right click burst you down in a second.
even tanks.

[Vurdah]

There is no OP hero, all can be countered one way or another.

Not OP but Tracer and Genji are fucking cancer.

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This is both incredibly stupid and naive.

McCree IS actually overpowered, so is Widowmaker, Mercy and Lucio are not really OP (Lucio probably is actually) but are basically mandatory on every map.

I honestly do not grasp how you could think McCree is balanced, even extremely high end players on twitch like Seagull agree.

Complaining about McCree is not the same thing as complaining about Bastion.

McCree is not really OP. He's good but not that damn good.

[HumbleDuck]

his E>M2 does need nerfing, but how without making him suck? they could make the E a bit harder to hit, so it has to do more than just hit near the enemy, and reduce accuracy of M2, that might keep him viable while not making him suck

How about changing the stun to a flash bang ( target can move, but not shoot), but give him better long range damage?

I would love to "snipe" stuff as him.

[Vurdah]

He also mauls almost any tank, has very little counterplay, he invalidates Reaper as a hero, destroys Mei, gets 50% of his ultimate charge back for no reason whatsoever, beats Genji and Tracer most of the time unless they have ults, he gets incredible benefit from Mercy's damage buff, Reinhardt synergizes with him incredibly well because you beat Rein by flanking which in turn is beat by McCree.

There's a reason he's picked TWICE per team in almost every competitive game.

I guarantee you they'll nerf E>M2.

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https://www.twitch.tv/esportsarena Watch this and give me a warning when you see a team not pick him.

I just needed to vent but the 'every hero is balanced and has counterplay!!' argument is dumb and going to hurt this game in the long run.

He destroys bad tanks.

OMG the anti flanker hero can beat flanker heroes.

Junkrat, Soldier, Dva, Roadhog and Phara murder McCree.

The reason he's picked is the same reason Genji is picked, cool factor.

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Pretty much. Someone has to be the top of the food chain in 1 on 1 encounters and that is him.

If you find yourself without a team against mccree you are suppose to die. That is his entire purpose.

All you have to do is move and stay out of range of his flashbang and you can destroy McCree pretty easily.

[Tarrlogar]

People saying McCree is overpowered need to play him and see that if he is in the open at all, he'll be killed very quickly. He's stuck hiding in hallway much of the time until high noon. It's not an instant win if you play him, you can't move very well and is only really dangerous at short range. He's best covering flanks or assisting a big Reinhardt push.

And yeah, the official forums did go quiet over Bashion and focus on McCree now and Widowmaker. Someone said during the open beta that Tracer will be a complaint down the road. I just learned to use her really well last night by dashing behind the enemy, flanking them, and then lulling a few of them away, which makes my team push more easily. Even if the opposing team has a McCree, I just avoid him and they usually never catch me. I also found that by taking Tracer to the back lines, I often find Widowmakers just standing there as a free kill or I will find a Bashion facing the wrong way that is just asking to be taken out and I even find Junkrats trying to launch their wheel.

From what I understand, at the competitive level, the best 7 characters are Lucio, Winston, Mercy, Tracer, Widowmaker, Reinhardt, and McCree; while used less often and more situationally are Pharah, Soldier 76, Symmetra, and Zarya. Zenyatta is used in conjunction with another support, usually Lucio, to push with their ultimates. Most of the defensive characters, outside of Widowmaker and a small amount of Junkrat, are not used. I think this falls to the RTS logic seen in Starcraft, where you can build a lot of defense, but if you use much of your offense as your defense, you are more flexible.

I kind of like the idea of main characters and situational characters. I don't think we need everyone to be equally represented, we just need them all to be useful and to have situations for them. It's like how in Vanilla WoW, warriors, mages, priests, and perhaps rogues, were favored in five mans, while hunters and ret pallies were not and other classes shined more in raids. Being that you can switch characters on the fly and don't have a committed main, they don't have to do what WoW did in Wrath and make all the roles equal and thus ceasing to a complex interesting game.

I like the idea of a Zenyatta that is a secondary support used in conjunction with Lucio or Mercy or using a Zarya, Roadhog, or D.Va in conjunction with your main tank. And over time, people will invent new strategies. In Starcraft, which hadn't had any balance changes in decades, didn't originally include defilers and arbiters in standard match ups but over time, the defiler became essential for the Zerg in ZvT and ZvP while the Arbiter use in PvT complete changed how the Protoss handles a tank push and forces the Terran to use more Goliaths and Turrets. Not to mention that ZvP was considered slightly unbalanced in 2003 because the Protoss had no counter to Zerg/Ling, but years later, I have never heard it mentioned again, as it seems players found a way to counter it. People in this game will evolve new strategies.

So I personally, don't think this game needs balance changes at all really, though they might have to tweek a few things. I'd like to see how the game evolves over the years and I hope they don't add too many new characters.

[Beazy]

I wonder who the bonzies will deem OP next week, will it be Roadhog or Phara?

I got $20 on Roadhog, any takers?

[Woobels]

Not OP but Tracer and Genji are fucking cancer.

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McCree is not really OP. He's good but not that damn good.

So tell me what the counterplay to a good Rein/McCree/Mercy core is.

Why is he picked this much while heroes like Reaper and Soldier 76 are almost never picked in competitive?

I'm genuinely curious.

Also him 1v1 a Roadhog with a single combo is absurd, and it can be done.

[MrTharne]

The reason he's picked is the same reason Genji is picked, cool factor.

All you have to do is move and stay out of range of his flashbang and you can destroy McCree pretty easily.

I guess top teams in tournaments only take him for cool factor too.

[Vurdah]

Bastion doesn't make me mad, being paired with retards makes me mad. Having a Mercy that only heals the tank no matter what and ignores everyone else. Having a Tracer just blinking around doing no damage. Having a Reaper use his teleport over and over in an open spot and getting sniped instantly and never learning. Having a Roadhog that misses every single hook. Having 3 snipers on a team. Having someone think that Symetra is a great solo support. Having a Zenyatta run into the front of the group and then wondering why he died. These are just a few things that make me mad at this game.

Couldn't agree more.

[Xyonai]

I wonder who the bonzies will deem OP next week, will it be Roadhog or Phara?

I got $20 on on Roadhog, any takers?

I don't know, I've heard the whispers of people upset with how much damage Widowmaker's Assault Rifle can do. Though you might be right on Roadhog.

[Deleted]

I wonder who the bonzies will deem OP next week, will it be Roadhog or Phara?

I got $20 on on Roadhog, any takers?

my bets on Reinhardt, someone will complain his charge is too strong and should 1 hit you

[Vurdah]

I guess top teams in tournaments only take him for cool factor too.

The game just came out. What fucking tournaments are you referring to?

Oh and the game JUST CAME OUT. So people are still learning how to counter other heroes.

[TITAN308]

I guess top teams in tournaments only take him for cool factor too.

And people like you will complain when they pick ANYTHING.

[Coronius]

I still think Bastion is worse to deal with than McCree. Both of them are probably the easiest characters to play, yes, but the biggest problem with McCree is his ulti which isn't available all the time.

[MrTharne]

And people like you will complain when they pick ANYTHING.

Not at all. D.Va, Zenyatta, Hanzo, RoadHog, Torbjorn and a lot more.

[Woobels]

I'm serious:

I'm willing to bet McCree will see significant nerfs with the first balancing pass, I'll throw down 20 bucks or something.

If you do not understand why him and Widow are busted I honestly don't know what to tell you.

Bet ya'll think Reaper is a good hero too, based on the amount of complaining on Mei who's actually bottom tier at best.

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I still think Bastion is worse to deal with than McCree. Both of them are probably the easiest characters to play, yes, but the biggest problem with McCree is his ulti which isn't available all the time.

His ulti isn't that big of a deal, it giving 50% charge back when you cancel it is because it demands the enemy team retreats after which you just cancel, get 50% of your charge back and you just created a bunch of space for half an ultimate charge.

[Deleted]

Remember everyone annoying != Strong or even remotely viable in high skill/competitively.
Bastion, Torbjörn, Widowmaker and Mei were some of the least used characters, because they can be played around. Do I get completely owned by these heroes at times? Of course, but simply finding something annoying shouldn't be the biggest deciding factor for nerfs.

Eventually we'll learn to live with them, and to counter them. Just like any game. I do, however, understand that some Heroes overperform and needs tuning, but don't be so quick to judge.