[TV] The Flash!

[pateuvasiliu]

The timeline he created should be Flashpoint Paradox, it's literally how it went in the comics/film.

[Seegtease]

The timeline he created should be Flashpoint Paradox, it's literally how it went in the comics/film.

All of my knowledge of the Flash comes from the current series, for real. Never was a comic buff, so I still get to enjoy being surprised or theorizing

[Feredir]

Alright, I'm late to the game, but theory time:

I think we're going to learn why Eobard really hates Barry Allen.

Here's the thing - the timeline in which Eobard learned to hate Barry was a timeline where Barry's mom was still alive. This is fact because otherwise he never would have been able to (nor wanted to) kill her (or attempt to kill Barry). He chose to cause her death, meaning there's a timeline (probably his original timeline) where she is alive, AND the flash still exists as Barry Allen.

Barry just created that timeline. That is, the timeline where his mother is still alive. So we're going to find the reason he hates Barry so much now that that timeline exists (from our perspective). Then he will go back and kill Barry's mother, closing the time loop.

Interesting side point: we also know Barry is still the Flash, because his past self, who watched his mother die, vanished, but the Barry who saved her did not vanish. Whatever happens in this timeline still allows Barry to become the Flash (which is also evidenced by Eobard hating him while he was the flash and his mother is alive).

That was a confusing mouthful, but it makes sense in my head.

Reverse Flash (Zoom/Prf. Zoom)hated Barry because he was a fanboy that had surgery to look like Barry. He even went back in time to meet Barry after stealing an antique cosmic treadmill, but since it wasn't calibrated properly he instead arrived after Barry was dead and found Wally West was The Flash. He later visited The Flash museum where he found out his destiny was to be Barry's arch-enemy, which drove him nuts, he was delusional and starting thinking he was Barry. After fighting Wally and Jay Garrick, he took the yellow costume and put it on. Wally then tricked Zoom into getting on the cosmic treadmill which took him back to the future. Thawne had no memories of the incident, but he was left with a gnawing anger and hatred for The Flash that he couldn't explain.

[Khime]

The timeline he created should be Flashpoint Paradox, it's literally how it went in the comics/film.

Thing is, Barry Allen from the comics generally can't change history. That's what made Reverse Flash's ability to do so such a nightmare: It was a new power that Flash's enemy had (as of Flash:Rebirth) that he himself didn't. But in Flashpoint, Barry managed to change history. How? By pulling the entire Speed Force into himself in order to stop Reverse Flash. That is what caused history to shatter like a bullet through a windshield. Barry Allen's mother living isn't what caused the Flashpoint Paradox; it was the manner in which Flash changed history that caused it.

Meanwhile, Barry on the TV show has changed history several times, and has only ever had minor consequences. He's never retroactively changed something that happened before the event he changed, nor altered events that have no connection to the event he's changed. His changes always make sense from a cause-and-effect perspective. And we also know there was an original timeline where Barry became the Flash while still having a living mother, so him having a living mother is not all it takes to cause Flashpoint.

So if the writers want, they can just portray a world where Barry's mother lived, and then show us the consequences of that. They don't have to do the whole "history shattered in both directions because you happen to have changed it wrong this time, even though that never happened when you changed history before" thing that Flashpoint did. They can just show us what events would be changed. It wouldn't be 100% like the world that existed before Eobard Thawne ever tried to kill Nora, because now Barry is being raised by parents who survived a home invasion by time-traveling speedsters, so he might end up raised a bit differently. Time will tell.

[Seegtease]

By the way, can someone explain time remnants? Why does killing Eddie cause Eobard to vanish, but killing your past self does not cause your future self to vanish?

[Deleted]

By the way, can someone explain time remnants? Why does killing Eddie cause Eobard to vanish, but killing your past self does not cause your future self to vanish?

the easy version is because you need to exist to create the remnant in the first place pretty much

[Immitis]

because now Barry is being raised by parents who survived a home invasion by time-traveling speedsters, so he might end up raised a bit differently. Time will tell.

i think i just figured it out.

after being attacked, barry and his parent move away to be safer.

particle accelerator goes off but barry is in a different city, so barry never becomes the flash.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Thing is, Barry Allen from the comics generally can't change history. That's what made Reverse Flash's ability to do so such a nightmare: It was a new power that Flash's enemy had (as of Flash:Rebirth) that he himself didn't. But in Flashpoint, Barry managed to change history. How? By pulling the entire Speed Force into himself in order to stop Reverse Flash. That is what caused history to shatter like a bullet through a windshield. Barry Allen's mother living isn't what caused the Flashpoint Paradox; it was the manner in which Flash changed history that caused it.

Meanwhile, Barry on the TV show has changed history several times, and has only ever had minor consequences. He's never retroactively changed something that happened before the event he changed, nor altered events that have no connection to the event he's changed. His changes always make sense from a cause-and-effect perspective. And we also know there was an original timeline where Barry became the Flash while still having a living mother, so him having a living mother is not all it takes to cause Flashpoint.

So if the writers want, they can just portray a world where Barry's mother lived, and then show us the consequences of that. They don't have to do the whole "history shattered in both directions because you happen to have changed it wrong this time, even though that never happened when you changed history before" thing that Flashpoint did. They can just show us what events would be changed. It wouldn't be 100% like the world that existed before Eobard Thawne ever tried to kill Nora, because now Barry is being raised by parents who survived a home invasion by time-traveling speedsters, so he might end up raised a bit differently. Time will tell.

I wouldn't expect S3 to start off super crazy like Central City in a big war or mostly destroyed or anything like that. There will probably be a simpler explanation. Still fun to speculate though.

[Serpha]

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[Kalcheus]

I've been trying to think what could be going on that would make the future so horrible that Barry would willingly change it back.

At first I was thinking along the lines of Atlanteans vs Amazons (as in the original Flashpoint) but on a smaller scale, so I was thinking maybe Slade Wilson vs Malcolm Merlyn or similar but thought that was too Arrow-ish. Then it occurred to me: when history was changed the first time, it caused the tears with Earth-2. Perhaps this change in history did something similar, but on a larger scale: tears everywhere leading to Earth-2 and -3 and -4 etc and since Earth-1 doesn't have a Flash to protect it, it's become a world where bad guys from other Earths come to get their jollies.

[Svifnymr]

I've been trying to think what could be going on that would make the future so horrible that Barry would willingly change it back.

At first I was thinking along the lines of Atlanteans vs Amazons (as in the original Flashpoint) but on a smaller scale, so I was thinking maybe Slade Wilson vs Malcolm Merlyn or similar but thought that was too Arrow-ish. Then it occurred to me: when history was changed the first time, it caused the tears with Earth-2. Perhaps this change in history did something similar, but on a larger scale: tears everywhere leading to Earth-2 and -3 and -4 etc and since Earth-1 doesn't have a Flash to protect it, it's become a world where bad guys from other Earths come to get their jollies.

The time travel rules are a bit flexible so far. He opened the portal to return to his time, and came back, without a problem. Then Eddie did his thing, Unmaking Eobard, and then the wormhole opened up. So was it Barry's time travel that caused it, or Eddies paradox? It's possible that Speedsters have some deal with Time, thus involving Time Wraiths, while Time Masters have their own deal, and Eddie just broke the universe since he's not covered by either deal.

[Svifnymr]

For the S1 wormhole I say a combination. The time travel weakened spacetime and Eddie's act tore open a hole in reality.

The issue really is that they sort of set up this monumental thing, then S2E1 basically ditched it in a flashback and it became a simple Earth2 setup.

[Sierra85]

He ran in circles and it closed. No big deal. Better things to spend their 42 minutes on.

well you dont want to blow your entire VFX budget in the first ep!

[Immitis]

I've been trying to think what could be going on that would make the future so horrible that Barry would willingly change it back.

At first I was thinking along the lines of Atlanteans vs Amazons (as in the original Flashpoint) but on a smaller scale, so I was thinking maybe Slade Wilson vs Malcolm Merlyn or similar but thought that was too Arrow-ish. Then it occurred to me: when history was changed the first time, it caused the tears with Earth-2. Perhaps this change in history did something similar, but on a larger scale: tears everywhere leading to Earth-2 and -3 and -4 etc and since Earth-1 doesn't have a Flash to protect it, it's become a world where bad guys from other Earths come to get their jollies.

OR a world where multiple flashes, jay, bart, wally, ect all have to come from other worlds to defend it.

- - - Updated - - -

you know what would be awesome?

if at some point the show goes full on meta and we get things like the comic book version of barry, original ginger wally, ect ect.

i would love it so much, if grant gustin played wally west with dyed hair/wig.

"im barry allen fastest man alive"

"u wot?"

[Sierra85]

Does the events of the finale actually change everything, essentially reseting the series? or is it going to be a limited time thing, then barry will go back again and restore it to how it was.

seems like there would be FAR too many repurcussions that would affect the other DCTV series? no?

[Svifnymr]

Does the events of the finale actually change everything, essentially reseting the series? or is it going to be a limited time thing, then barry will go back again and restore it to how it was.

seems like there would be FAR too many repurcussions that would affect the other DCTV series? no?

We'll all find out next season. :-p
But I mostly expect a reset within the first few episodes. It WOULD be sort of neat if Flash got a 2-3 week lead on the other series so it would be resolved before the others started so it wouldn't need to justify why nothing is different on them. It would also be nice if this was how they linked Supergirl into things without too much trouble.

But yeah, who the hell knows.

[4KhazModan]

We'll all find out next season. :-p
But I mostly expect a reset within the first few episodes. It WOULD be sort of neat if Flash got a 2-3 week lead on the other series so it would be resolved before the others started so it wouldn't need to justify why nothing is different on them. It would also be nice if this was how they linked Supergirl into things without too much trouble.

But yeah, who the hell knows.

I mean, I'd be down for a whole Flashpoint season, I don't know about you guys.

[Svifnymr]

I mean, I'd be down for a whole Flashpoint season, I don't know about you guys.

I can't see the other shows going with it though. Maybe they could toss out a comment about it being localized or something, I don't know, but changing the entire Arrow-scape to reverse it at the end? Seems unlikely. There's also of course the idea from Flashpoint that only Barry remembered the original timeline, so it'd be interesting to see if that carries through in Season3 and Barry returns to a Central City where everyone is much worse off.

The easiest way to "fix" things is since time wants things a certain way, it just means Barry's mom died soon after. It'd be interesting if in this new reality, Henry actually does murder her and Barry is an evil Flash, but eh.

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It'd also be interesting if the end of Legends was a warning not to leave the time because they needed to be there to unfuck Barry's mess.

[Immitis]

id be cool with a half season of alt reality arrowverse shenanigans, but yeah. no way all of arrowverse is flashpoint.

either flashpoint will only affect flash or it will be short term thing

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although, i could see arrow doing it by having flashpoint take the place of the flashbacks.

regular show is current timeline, flashbacks are flashpoint timeline until resolved in flash. that be cool.

[Feredir]

id be cool with a half season of alt reality arrowverse shenanigans, but yeah. no way all of arrowverse is flashpoint.

either flashpoint will only affect flash or it will be short term thing

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although, i could see arrow doing it by having flashpoint take the place of the flashbacks.

regular show is current timeline, flashbacks are flashpoint timeline until resolved in flash. that be cool.

Maybe this is why Colton Hayes is back for a few episodes next season. Perhaps its just as simple as Roy being Speedy, and Thea never have actually existed, for that matter neither do Diggle or Felicity, at least not in the way we know them.

or Roy is Green Arrow and Oliver is Ra's al Ghul, because there was no Barry to save them at Nanda Parbat.