Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Thimagryn]

But that is exactly what you ignorants and that Scraf tryhard 'IMADEVONTHEINTERNETMYOPINUIONISABSOLUTE' keep saying

1. I'm Pro Legacy, so why the fuck would I say that? Maybe you are the one being ignorant for assuming such things before you reply.
2. Rather than listing a bunch of statements, why not quote someone here (in current conversation, not at page 1) who has actually said that? I'm sure you'll find that no one here has actually said those exact words as you listed.

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Terrible philosiphy, imo. How does the idiot become not-an-idiot if no one ever attempts to help them?

[Kyanion]

Blizzard stated, in the earnings call prior to Cata's release, that around 7 in 10 accounts trail accounts fail to make it past level 10.

You have repeatedly called into question the numbers provided by Nost despite not having a shred of evidence to suggest that they are lying other than they hosted an illegal server which is bad therefore they must, by virtue of being bad, be liars.

Okay? Got a link to this source. Btw, 7 in 10 trial accounts failing to make it to 10 does NOT mean 70% of all accounts are trials. You do understand this right?

As far as Nost evidence, I'm sorry how can anyone prove it one way or another? Do you know for sure that Nost is telling the truth? Of course you fucking don't.

[Pann]

Okay? Got a link to this source. Btw, 7 in 10 trial accounts failing to make it to 10 does NOT mean 70% of all accounts are trials. You do understand this right?

As far as Nost evidence, I'm sorry how can anyone prove it one way or another? Do you know for sure that Nost is telling the truth? Of course you fucking don't.

It is interesting that you ask me for proof yet you are happy to throw around unsubstantiated numbers about the amount of WoW accounts created. Where's your proof that more than half the number of accounts created were paid for? Since you are too lazy to look for yourself even though I told when and where Blizzard said that 70% of trial accounts quit before level 10 here is a link or three;

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/bl...ast-level-10_1

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/world-of-wa...1068514p1.html

http://kotaku.com/5469238/most-new-w...-past-level-10

I didn't say that 70% of all accounts are trails.

If you cannot prove whether or not they are lying they why do you keep saying that they are? What reason do they have for lying?

[Kyanion]

It is interesting that you ask me for proof yet you are happy to throw around unsubstantiated numbers about the amount of WoW accounts created. Where's your proof that more than half the number of accounts created were paid for? Since you are too lazy to look for yourself even though I told when and where Blizzard said that 70% of trial accounts quit before level 10 here is a link or three;

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/bl...ast-level-10_1

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/world-of-wa...1068514p1.html

http://kotaku.com/5469238/most-new-w...-past-level-10

I didn't say that 70% of all accounts are trails.

If you cannot prove whether or not they are lying they why do you keep saying that they are? What reason do they have for lying?

But you DID say that "The majority of 100 million accounts created were also free." So that would imply that over 50% of the 100 million accounts were free ones. No where in the articles you linked does it mention how many trial accounts were created. Just that 70% of those accounts do not make it past 10.

It cracks me up that you make a statement that "The majority of 100 million accounts created were also free." and then provide links that talk about trial accounts not making it past level 10. Totally the same shit right there. I want you to back up your claim about the 100 million accounts having a majority as free ones. The difference between your statement and mine is that the statement I make about Nost is my opinion. You are trying to claim facts about the majority of WoW being trials. Not me. You. I acknowledge mine as opinion. So far you haven't done the same about this 'majority' of trial accounts.

What reason do they have to lie? Oh gee I don't know, more people to play it, more attention, who knows what future plans they may have had. They were more than happy to put out bulletins showing how large the playerbase was. It is my OPINION that they doctored up those numbers and I can't prove it one way or another because I don't get to see their data first hand. In the case of Blizzard I am more likely to believe them because they are reporting numbers to shareholders and we're talking about a lot of money at stake here. No I don't get to see those firsthand but I'm more inclined to believe them as they are a legit business than some people running a private server copyright infringing.

[Pann]

But you DID say that "The majority of 100 million accounts created were also free." So that would imply that over 50% of the 100 million accounts were free ones. No where in the articles you linked does it mention how many trial accounts were created. Just that 70% of those accounts do not make it past 10.

It cracks me up that you make a statement that "The majority of 100 million accounts created were also free." and then provide links that talk about trial accounts not making it past level 10. Totally the same shit right there. I want you to back up your claim about the 100 million accounts having a majority as free ones. The difference between your statement and mine about Nost is that mine is an opinion. You are trying to claim facts about the majority of WoW being trials. Not me. You.

What reason do they have to lie? Oh gee I don't know, more people to play it, more attention, who knows what future plans they may have had. They were more than happy to put out bulletins showing how large the playerbase was. It is my OPINION that they doctored up those numbers and I can't prove it one way or another because I don't get to see their data first hand. In the case of Blizzard I am more likely to believe them because they are reporting numbers to shareholders and we're talking about a lot of money at stake here. No I don't get to see those firsthand but I'm more inclined to believe them as they are a legit business than some people running a private server copyright infringing.

I know what I wrote and it does more than imply that more 50% of the accounts created were free. Why would the articles need to say how many trial accounts were created? Blizzard told us that 100 million accounts were created which included trials the majority of which never go on to pay for the game. Unless you are, rather laughably, suggesting that the majority accounts created were by people that bought game rather than by those that tried it for free then it stands to reason that majority of accounts were created for free. The estimated number of copies sold for WoW is around 14million so where are the other 36million+?

How would the numbers released by Nost encourage more people play it when they were in the process of shutting it down when they were released?

[Kyanion]

I know what I wrote and it does more than imply that more 50% of the accounts created were free. Why would the articles need to say how many trial accounts were created? Blizzard told us that 100 million accounts were created which included trials the majority of which never go on to pay for the game. Unless you are, rather laughably, suggesting that the majority accounts created were by people that bought game rather than by those that tried it for free then it stands to reason that majority of accounts were created for free. The estimated number of copies sold for WoW is around 14million so where are the other 36million+?

How would the numbers released by Nost encourage more people play it when they were in the process of shutting it down when they were released?

Bzzt. See that is just it, read what you said again. "Blizzard told us that 100 million accounts were created which included trials the majority of which never go on to pay for the game." Blizzard ALSO tells us that most of the trial accounts made do not get past level 10. 70% of those TRIAL accounts do not get past 10. They do NOT say that the majority of their accounts are trials.

What do you mean "Why would the articles need to say how many trial accounts were created?" Because it is fucking important. Because it makes people like you make great leaps of logic thinking that because 70% of trial accounts do not make level 10 that all of a sudden means the MAJORITY of WoW accounts are trial accounts. Until you can fix that massive disconnect you are having I don't know what else I can tell you.

And this 14 million copies sold wasn't that just for Vanilla? I don't even think Blizzard actually tells us how many copies they sold outside of an announcement here and there that they sold X copies prerelease style or in the first week they sold X boxes. I don't think we ever got totals from them just how much they were making in sub fees. Also keep in mind the copies sold metric is different for Asian countries so we really won't know how they tabulate the numbers.

[Vineri]

But you DID say that "The majority of 100 million accounts created were also free." So that would imply that over 50% of the 100 million accounts were free ones. No where in the articles you linked does it mention how many trial accounts were created. Just that 70% of those accounts do not make it past 10.

It cracks me up that you make a statement that "The majority of 100 million accounts created were also free." and then provide links that talk about trial accounts not making it past level 10. Totally the same shit right there. I want you to back up your claim about the 100 million accounts having a majority as free ones. The difference between your statement and mine is that the statement I make about Nost is my opinion. You are trying to claim facts about the majority of WoW being trials. Not me. You. I acknowledge mine as opinion. So far you haven't done the same about this 'majority' of trial accounts.

What reason do they have to lie? Oh gee I don't know, more people to play it, more attention, who knows what future plans they may have had. They were more than happy to put out bulletins showing how large the playerbase was. It is my OPINION that they doctored up those numbers and I can't prove it one way or another because I don't get to see their data first hand. In the case of Blizzard I am more likely to believe them because they are reporting numbers to shareholders and we're talking about a lot of money at stake here. No I don't get to see those firsthand but I'm more inclined to believe them as they are a legit business than some people running a private server copyright infringing.

That clears up your whole post.

It is your opinion, yes. Yet, no you can't prove it one way or another. You can only rely on the facts (none provided). Folks are watching this thread because there is interest. Nay-sayers may try to convince the opposite, but common sense dictates.

[Pann]

Bzzt. See that is just it, read what you said again. "Blizzard told us that 100 million accounts were created which included trials the majority of which never go on to pay for the game." Blizzard ALSO tells us that most of the trial accounts made do not get past level 10. 70% of those TRIAL accounts do not get past 10. They do NOT say that the majority of their accounts are trials.

What do you mean "Why would the articles need to say how many trial accounts were created?" Because it is fucking important. Because it makes people like you make great leaps of logic thinking that because 70% of trial accounts do not make level 10 that all of a sudden means the MAJORITY of WoW accounts are trial accounts. Until you can fix that massive disconnect you are having I don't know what else I can tell you.

And this 14 million copies sold wasn't that just for Vanilla? I don't even think Blizzard actually tells us how many copies they sold outside of an announcement here and there that they sold X copies prerelease style or in the first week they sold X boxes. I don't think we ever got totals from them just how much they were making in sub fees. Also keep in mind the copies sold metric is different for Asian countries so we really won't know how they tabulate the numbers.

Right? Ok? I get the impression you don't actually know what you're talking about.

Why is it important? It is standard behaviour that when people can try a product or service for free they do so before deciding to pay for it. Or are you suggesting that people have just ignored the free trial and bought the game?

Seeing as vanilla is, still to this day, needed to play the game it is reasonable to assume that its sales tally with the amount of paid for accounts created. Hence my use of the word estimated.

[Kyanion]

That clears up your whole post.

It is your opinion, yes. Yet, no you can't prove it one way or another. You can only rely on the facts (none provided). Folks are watching this thread because there is interest. Nay-sayers may try ton convince the opposite, but common sense dictates.

LOL you think ANYONE can provide ANY facts about most of the shit they say? You here to try and point out the fucking obvious? You have factual data on anything we've been talking about? Of course you don't. We have very little information on either side of this shit and you know it. So don't try and color highlight my posts because I'm willing to admit my shit is opinion and some of the others spout out shit as if they are facts. Common sense my ass, nothing you said was common sense.

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Right? Ok? I get the impression you don't actually know what you're talking about.

Why is it important? It is standard behaviour that when people can try a product or service for free they do so before deciding to pay for it. Or are you suggesting that people have just ignored the free trial and bought the game?

Seeing as vanilla is, still to this day, needed to play the game it is reasonable to assume that its sales tally with the amount of paid for accounts created. Hence my use of the word estimated.

So are you going to backtrack from your "The majority of 100 million accounts created were also free." statement yet? More likely you'll just ignore you said it now and pretend everything is fine and attack something else. It seems like this time you chose to attack me by claiming I don't know what I'm talking about. Look buddy I'm not the one saying "The majority of 100 million accounts created were also free.". YOU ARE. You are trying to make it a FACT. I am using my OPINION that I do not trust the numbers Nost has provided. OPINION. Got it?

And good lord you have no evidence to provide, just your guesses and estimates. It would be fine if you were just giving an opinion on the matter but no, you are trying to act like you have the absolute truth and we just have to accept it. Get over yourself.

[Vineri]

LOL you think ANYONE can provide ANY facts about most of the shit they say? You here to try and point out the fucking obvious? You have factual data on anything we've been talking about? Of course you don't. We have very little information on either side of this shit and you know it. So don't try and color highlight my posts because I'm willing to admit my shit is opinion and some of the others spout out shit as if they are facts. Common sense my ass, nothing you said was common sense.

I'm not sure, I'm really just jumping in to the fray this evening.

I will tell you though, that arguments involving the F-bomb, and with swear / cuss words will not help any argument you might have. It only makes you look weak.

It might make you feel assertive and powerful .. but, it really does not.

[Kyanion]

I'm not sure, I'm really just jumping in to the fray this evening.

I will tell you though, that arguments involving the F-bomb, and with swear / cuss words will not help any argument you might have. It only makes you look weak.

Sorry I will speak however I want within the guidelines of this site. Just because I drop an f-bomb it does not invalidate what I say. You think it looks weak and that is fine. But hey, thanks for the driveby highlight of my posts trying to point out the evil things I am doing and saying. Before jumping into this fray at least see what is going on before just lying down a line of fire. I have no problem admitting what are my personal feelings and opinions on the matter. The difference between me and Pann right now is I understand my things are opinions and he is trying to come out with what he views as facts.

[Pann]

So are you going to backtrack from your "The majority of 100 million accounts created were also free." statement yet? More likely you'll just ignore you said it now and pretend everything is fine and attack something else. It seems like this time you chose to attack me by claiming I don't know what I'm talking about. Look buddy I'm not the one saying "The majority of 100 million accounts created were also free.". YOU ARE. You are trying to make it a FACT. I am using my OPINION that I do not trust the numbers Nost has provided. OPINION. Got it?

And good lord you have no evidence to provide, just your guesses and estimates. It would be fine if you were just giving an opinion on the matter but no, you are trying to act like you have the absolute truth and we just have to accept it. Get over yourself.

No, why would I? Why would I ignore it. You've yet to prove, well, anything. I know you're not the one saying that - that was me. I KNOW! I've given you figures to back up my reasoning you've provided nothing but an, ill-informed, OPINION. What has trust in Nost's numbers got to do with the amount of WoW accounts created?

I've provided evidence from Blizzard, which at this point in 100% more than you have, to back up my estimates. As for the total number of sales for WoW they are not my estimates and they are only a quick google away.

[Kyanion]

No, why would I? Why would I ignore it. You've yet to prove, well, anything. I know you're not the one saying that - that was me. I KNOW! I've given you figures to back up my reasoning you've provided nothing but an, ill-informed, OPINION. What has trust in Nost's numbers got to do with the amount of WoW accounts created?

I've provided evidence from Blizzard, which at this point in 100% more than you have, to back up my estimates. As for the total number of sales for WoW they are not my estimates and they are only a quick google away.

LOL you have proven nothing. You linked some stuff that says "Trial accounts don't make it past level ten 70% of the time." Okay that is great but that does nothing for your factual statement of "The majority of 100 million accounts created were also free." I mean congrats on finding some random links to post up but it does NOTHING for you.

Uhh actually go and try googling the number of sales for WoW. I'll wait. Then come back and provide me some links that are not just estimates or 6-8 years old. Sure there is a lot of speculation and guessing on it but we don't have the hard data that says clearly "Blizz has sold X copies of WoW". Since we don't have that data we don't really know how many trial accounts make up the 100 million. So you can't say it is a majority until you provide evidence.

See I have nothing to prove, I provided my opinion that I believe Nost's numbers are BS. I cannot prove it becuase I can't go visit the people that made Nost and request to see the actual numbers. I might be wrong and I might not be. However that is all I can do. I can't magically make the numbers appear so I have to state that it is my opinion. And as far as this topic goes it is a very minor point. What you are trying to make is a massive statement and you aren't backing it up and refuse to acknowledge it as your opinion.

[Vineri]

Sorry I will speak however I want within the guidelines of this site. Just because I drop an f-bomb it does not invalidate what I say. You think it looks weak and that is fine. But hey, thanks for the driveby highlight of my posts trying to point out the evil things I am doing and saying. Before jumping into this fray at least see what is going on before just lying down a line of fire. I have no problem admitting what are my personal feelings and opinions on the matter. The difference between me and Pann right now is I understand my things are opinions and he is trying to come out with what he views as facts.

Well, the F-bomb is generally reserved for an extreme case. When I see a cuss riddled post, I am likely to think it's not about substance, but rather about bully'ing someone into believing them.

Which brings me back to your original post. Could you have said what you needed to say without the dirty words, or did you include those, only because you thought those words would further push your argument?

[Kyanion]

Well, the F-bomb is generally reserved for an extreme case. When I see a cuss riddled post, I am likely to think it's not about substance, but rather about bully'ing someone into believing them.

Which brings me back to your original post. Could you have said what you needed to say without the dirty words, or did you include those, only because you thought those words would further push your argument?

Vineri, you should go take a gander at some of the other forums on this site. Cursing is fairly common in many of the threads. I talk like this with my friends and they are the same, we use curse words for fun, ironically and just because we can. I like that I can use whatever words I want on these forums. Sometimes I make posts without any of them, but when I am highlighting something really inane I tend to use an f-bomb or something to point out what I think about it. Since it can be very difficult to get across sarcasm or focusing on a point through text mediums I go that route from time to time.

I don't think I included them to further push my argument, I just use them to point out things that are really stupid. I mean the argument in point right now is someone trying to make a factual statement and refusing to provide evidence on their claim. Sorry you seem offended about my language but I have no intention of changing how I am or how I post.

[Neteyes]

See I have nothing to prove, I provided my opinion that I believe Nost's numbers are BS. I cannot prove it becuase I can't go visit the people that made Nost and request to see the actual numbers. I might be wrong and I might not be. However that is all I can do. I can't magically make the numbers appear so I have to state that it is my opinion. And as far as this topic goes it is a very minor point. What you are trying to make is a massive statement and you aren't backing it up and refuse to acknowledge it as your opinion.

I believe you're wrong. Nostalrius would have no reason to fake those numbers at all. If they were fake, it would have been noticed by people playing the game first of all, you don't mistake 10k for 800k.

[Vineri]

Vineri, you should go take a gander at some of the other forums on this site. Cursing is fairly common in many of the threads. I talk like this with my friends and they are the same, we use curse words for fun, ironically and just because we can. I like that I can use whatever words I want on these forums. Sometimes I make posts without any of them, but when I am highlighting something really inane I tend to use an f-bomb or something to point out what I think about it. Since it can be very difficult to get across sarcasm or focusing on a point through text mediums I go that route from time to time.

I don't think I included them to further push my argument, I just use them to point out things that are really stupid. I mean the argument in point right now is someone trying to make a factual statement and refusing to provide evidence on their claim. Sorry you seem offended about my language but I have no intention of changing how I am or how I post.

Not everyone has had your experience. Let me explain?

Your generation is "different", amongst the wide internet crowd anyways.

You entered a Retro thread. The participants are likely older than yourself, and they first played WoW when you were a toddler. How can I guess you were a toddler? From the way you speak today. F-bombs away, aye? Actions show age.

Only your generation uses cuss words and F-bombs casually. I'm surprised MMO-C allows it, but I guess maybe they simply tolerate you.

[Pann]

LOL you have proven nothing. You linked some stuff that says "Trial accounts don't make it past level ten 70% of the time." Okay that is great but that does nothing for your factual statement of "The majority of 100 million accounts created were also free." I mean congrats on finding some random links to post up but it does NOTHING for you.

Uhh actually go and try googling the number of sales for WoW. I'll wait. Then come back and provide me some links that are not just estimates or 6-8 years old. Sure there is a lot of speculation and guessing on it but we don't have the hard data that says clearly "Blizz has sold X copies of WoW". Since we don't have that data we don't really know how many trial accounts make up the 100 million. So you can't say it is a majority until you provide evidence.

See I have nothing to prove, I provided my opinion that I believe Nost's numbers are BS. I cannot prove it becuase I can't go visit the people that made Nost and request to see the actual numbers. I might be wrong and I might not be. However that is all I can do. I can't magically make the numbers appear so I have to state that it is my opinion. And as far as this topic goes it is a very minor point. What you are trying to make is a massive statement and you aren't backing it up and refuse to acknowledge it as your opinion.

Have I not? In that case it should be easy for you to prove me wrong. You know with actual facts and figures not just OPINION.

Why wait? You can do it yourself, it would have been quicker than typing out your response. Even if the estimates are 6-8 years out of date, as you claim, it would require WoW to have sold more than double amount of copies sold in the first 6-8 years of its life (when its population was growing at fantastic rate) in that time period, despite the fact the game's population has been declining for 6 of those years, to make your statement that majority of accounts created were paid for correct.

I thought we were talking about Blizzard's numbers not Nost's? But you're still to provide any sort of reason as to why you think Nost's numbers are bullshit.

I've given you the numbers which I have used to reach my conclusion - you've given nothing.

[Kyanion]

I believe you're wrong. Nostalrius would have no reason to fake those numbers at all. If they were fake, it would have been noticed by people playing the game first of all, you don't mistake 10k for 800k.

I'm not saying it would be that drastic, but the could have doctored the numbers a little bit. But they would have reasons to fake numbers. All in all it really isn't important to the grand discussion taking place. It is just my opinion and I'm fine if no one else cares or thinks the same.

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Not everyone has had your experience. Let me explain?

Your generation is "different", amongst the wide internet crowd anyways.

You entered a Retro thread. The participants are likely older than yourself, and they first played WoW when you were a toddler. How can I guess you were a toddler? From the way you speak today. F-bombs away, aye? Actions show age.

Only your generation uses cuss words and F-bombs casually. I'm surprised MMO-C allows it, but I guess maybe they simply tolerate you.

Dude you don't know me at all and making assumptions about my age because I drop some f-bombs? Get real. Only 'my generation' uses cuss words and f-bombs casually? The hell are you talking about. Man you really need to get over yourself. I wasn't a toddler or even a kid when Vanilla was released. I was playing EQ for years before WoW came out and before that I was playing MUDs and then was playing L.O.R.D on BBS.

I'm done wasting my time with you, don't like my cursing? Get the fuck over it.

[Thimagryn]

I'm not sure, I'm really just jumping in to the fray this evening.

I will tell you though, that arguments involving the F-bomb, and with swear / cuss words will not help any argument you might have. It only makes you look weak.

It might make you feel assertive and powerful .. but, it really does not.

I'll jump in here too then. Everyone is talking about opinions so why are you trying to discredit someone for... well... sharing their opinion. You don't like the nay-saying? No one is forcing you to listen to it.