Does Bastion make you rage? I have some good news for you.

[xChurch]

You really think that? Because ranked is going to be just as bullshit as ranked is in HoTS. People are going to be stubborn, play what they want, not communicate, and just be overall trash thinking that they're absolutely amazing and that they feel they actually belong in ranked when all they're doing is wasting other peoples time.

Does that happen even as you reach higher ranks in Heroes? I would assume as you progress in the larger brackets you would encounter less and less of those types of players.

Yeah see I don't know. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, the only two heroes that ever consistently give me trouble are Zenyatta and Zarya. No one else. I don't think I'm super pro, but really like, I don't consistently die to any one hero like I do those 2.

No pain in the ass Tracers or Genji's? I find that even on a counter class, a good player with one of those heroes can make my life more annyoing for that game.

[Woobels]

Winston is the only tank I really feel kinda sucks in general.

http://i.imgur.com/6jkyNQg.gif

https://www.twitch.tv/esportsarena some hot quadra mccree action going right here.

[Chrysia]

You really think that? Because ranked is going to be just as bullshit as ranked is in HoTS. People are going to be stubborn, play what they want, not communicate, and just be overall trash thinking that they're absolutely amazing and that they feel they actually belong in ranked when all they're doing is wasting other peoples time.

I'm 100% convinced early competitive will be Reinhardt-Mercy-McCreeX2-whatever. There are counters to it, but if they're competent, they have a lot of methods to minimize those.

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http://i.imgur.com/6jkyNQg.gif

Again, it may be the players I'm playing against, but I've had more trouble with literally every other tank.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

I'm 100% convinced early competitive will be Reinhardt-Mercy-McCreeX2-whatever. There are counters to it, but if they're competent, they have a lot of methods to minimize those.

It won't be McCreex2 because Pharah, Genji, Reaper, any sniper, and even Tracer can counter him. Zarya can also be an issue or in general, a tanky team. Hell, even Soldier 76, if he minds his positioning, can deal with McCree.

... .-.;; I really don't get why people are bitching about probably one of the most underrated heroes in the game right now. I personally never have an issue with him unless I'm being complete dunce. Alternatively, I do so well with him, because I've learned to actually fucking aim and also control his hammer versus rely utterly on my stun.

[Woobels]

It won't be McCreex2 because Pharah, Genji, Reaper, any sniper, and even Tracer can counter him. Zarya can also be an issue or in general, a tanky team. Hell, even Soldier 76, if he minds his positioning, can deal with McCree.

... .-.;; I really don't get why people are bitching about probably one of the most underrated heroes in the game right now. I personally never have an issue with him unless I'm being complete dunce. Alternatively, I do so well with him, because I've learned to actually fucking aim and also control his hammer versus rely utterly on my stun.

https://www.twitch.tv/esportsarena Seriously, this is a decent sized tournament, 30k viewers, there's 4 McCree's in this game, I've linked this multiple times, yeah they sometimes switch but just watch the entire thing and count the McCree's, there objective stats which are hard to argue against that McCree's pick and winrates are super high.

I'll actually agree with you in that Zarya deals with McCree decently well.

I'm not trying to whine about losing to him, he's my MOST played hero, if they nerf they that'd actively hurt my play, I don't have some inane hatred against him just because I lose to him.

[Rabka Uhalla]

I'm 100% convinced early competitive will be Reinhardt-Mercy-McCreeX2-whatever. There are counters to it, but if they're competent, they have a lot of methods to minimize those.

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Again, it may be the players I'm playing against, but I've had more trouble with literally every other tank.

Every time I see a non tank and I'm playing my go-to, Widowmaker....

https://youtu.be/CgLu5H2vdZ8?t=115

[Chrysia]

It won't be McCreex2 because Pharah, Genji, Reaper, any sniper, and even Tracer can counter him. Zarya can also be an issue or in general, a tanky team. Hell, even Soldier 76, if he minds his positioning, can deal with McCree.

... .-.;; I really don't get why people are bitching about probably one of the most underrated heroes in the game right now. I personally never have an issue with him unless I'm being complete dunce. Alternatively, I do so well with him, because I've learned to actually fucking aim and also control his hammer versus rely utterly on my stun.

If the Reinhardt is doing his job, none of those people can reliably counter that trio/foursome, unless the team is coordinating really well. It's far easier to just run the same comp and see who plays it better.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

https://www.twitch.tv/esportsarena Seriously, this is a decent sized tournament, 30k viewers, there's 4 McCree's in this game.

It's still a week after the game out. I mean Jesus, during beta you'd think Bastion was going to be the end all and be all of the complaints now it's switched to McCree.

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If the Reinhardt is doing his job, none of those people can reliably counter that trio/foursome, unless the team is coordinating really well. It's far easier to just run the same comp and see who plays it better.

Then it's a mother fucking issue with Reinhardt, not McCree. Stop trying to get a hero that is by and large questionable beyond a given comp.

[Vurdah]

Not that I'm fond of agreeing with Woobels because he's really coming off as a whiny crybaby, but I agree, D.Va DOES suck, the only good thing about her is her ult, otherwise she's a cakewalk to kill.

If you don't know how to play her the same with every hero, sure they suck. And as far as easy to kill. Yeah if you focus fire any hero they are easy to kill. I don't get killed much on DVA because you not only have a shiels, high hp most of which is armor and takes half damage but you can also peace the fuck out buy flying away. Even if they do kill my mech, most of the time I get away and end up getting kills or assisting in kills which lowers the cd to get back in your mech. You can literally lose your mech multiple times before you ever actually die. And you're not there as DVA to get kills and be pro. You're there to disrupt the enemy team and grief them to create openings for your team to capitalize on.

Example: Using your shield on a bastion or Torb turret so a teammate can take them out. Hell even if you don't have your shield up you have enough hp/armor that you can just draw turret aggro by being in close proximity to it to allow a team member to kill it. If Torb doesn't buff it with his alt or set there and repair it, you can take it out rather fast solo and fly of and grab a med pack and get back into the fight.

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If you actually think DVA is that good then this discussion is over and has no point anymore.

I assume you're US or I'd gladly play your team with mine to see how well your DVA does.

In any case this is pointless, again I'll wait for Blizzard to balance instead of discussing this with people like you.

You'll be happy with the guaranteed DVA buffs though I imagine.

You've showed me your utter lack of understanding of the nuances of this game and how to actually play it. So I'm done trying to use logic and reason on you. You can have your opinion. It doesn't change fact. Have a good day.

[Woobels]

It's still a week after the game out. I mean Jesus, during beta you'd think Bastion was going to be the end all and be all of the complaints now it's switched to McCree.

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Then it's a mother fucking issue with Reinhardt, not McCree. Stop trying to get a hero that is by and large questionable beyond a given comp.

Sure, Reinhardt has an incredibly high pickrate too, there likely is an issue with him.

Lucio and Mercy being picked INSANELY probably means there's an issue with them too.

I just don't like the 'no hero is overpowered everyone is equal' argument, sorry if I come over as aggressive sometimes because it just bugs me.

You've showed me your utter lack of understanding of the nuances of this game and how to actually play it. So I'm done trying to use logic and reason on you. You can have your opinion. It doesn't change fact. Have a good day.

Once again, hubris.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

Sure, Reinhardt has an incredibly high pickrate too, there likely is an issue with him.

Lucio and Mercy being picked INSANELY probably means there's an issue with them too.

I just don't like the 'no hero is overpowered everyone is equal' argument, sorry if I come over as aggressive sometimes because it just bugs me.

Right now, it is far too early to tell who is OP and who isn't.

Also, in competitive matches, I would not be shocked to see doubles or greater no longer optional and especially in tournaments. I was actually surprised to even see it in Quickplay.

If tournaments are allowing it, then those are really shitty tournaments and I wouldn't partake.

[Woobels]

Right now, it is far too early to tell who is OP and who isn't.

Also, in competitive matches, I would not be shocked to see doubles or greater no longer optional and especially in tournaments. I was actually surprised to even see it in Quickplay.

If tournaments are allowing it, then those are really shitty tournaments and I wouldn't partake.

Hero stacking being disabled is a good point, I'm curious what Blizzard's approach to it is going to be like.

[Chrysia]

Sure, Reinhardt has an incredibly high pickrate too, there likely is an issue with him.

Lucio and Mercy being picked INSANELY probably means there's an issue with them too.

I just don't like the 'no hero is overpowered everyone is equal' argument, sorry if I come over as aggressive sometimes because it just bugs me.

Honestly, I think the main issue with Lucio and Mercy is how weak Zenyatta is. I honestly don't even consider Symmetra a support. She's a defense character. She's the only support that's garbage without another support.

[Woobels]

What do you mean "won't be"? It seriously already is. Every match in every professional/competitive tournament is stuffed full of McCree. Very, very often two on a team. Almost always at least one.

The winning team in what I think is winners finals (not sure?) just had three McCree's on their lineup.

[Woobels]

Interestingly enough there's only 1 McCree total on Dorado, maybe that map makes him less viable? I see lots of good players pick Roadhog on that map too, anyone wanna give some insight on why that is?

Edit: Nevermind there's 3 again.

[Keile]

McCree's only really strong if he can get up to you. It's all about the flashbang/right click combo that you can't avoid. Though I swear, sometimes while playing him I feel like the Flashbang doesn't always work. I've physically hit a player in the face with it, and they didn't get stunned.

As for tanks...I find Roadhog handles him fairly well. Unless he can finish you off in that flashbang, he is a dead McCree as now he is up close and that Scrap Gun is absolutely deadly as close range. The downside is you don't want to actually CHAIN a McCree unless you know his flashbang is on cooldown....he is one of the few who can get out of the hook/left click combo of the Roadhog.

I'm thinking the best bet is to actually nerf his Fan the Hammer (right click). Maybe make it deal reduced damage compared to a normal shot, but since you get (up to) 6 shots in rapid fire you would still do more damage in the amount of time it would take to fan the hammer as opposed to doing regular shots.

[Chrysia]

Interestingly enough there's only 1 McCree total on Dorado, maybe that map makes him less viable? I see lots of good players pick Roadhog on that map too, anyone wanna give some insight on why that is?

Higher than normal open sight lines, few real alternate paths, I think. I'm a bit confused about the Roadhog, there's not a lot of ways to really take advantage of his ult on that map, but you don't have to get close to McCree ever on Dorado.

[NoiseTank13]

Hold the god damn phone. I do not want McCree nerfed, he's like the only person who can reliably take out good Reapers.

[Chrysia]

McCree's only really strong if he can get up to you. It's all about the flashbang/right click combo that you can't avoid. Though I swear, sometimes while playing him I feel like the Flashbang doesn't always work. I've physically hit a player in the face with it, and they didn't get stunned.

As for tanks...I find Roadhog handles him fairly well. Unless he can finish you off in that flashbang, he is a dead McCree as now he is up close and that Scrap Gun is absolutely deadly as close range. The downside is you don't want to actually CHAIN a McCree unless you know his flashbang is on cooldown....he is one of the few who can get out of the hook/left click combo of the Roadhog.

I'm thinking the best bet is to actually nerf his Fan the Hammer (right click). Maybe make it deal reduced damage compared to a normal shot, but since you get (up to) 6 shots in rapid fire you would still do more damage in the amount of time it would take to fan the hammer as opposed to doing regular shots.

Perhaps each successive shot does reduced damage?

[Very Tired]

I do agree that Rightclick McCree is to powerful. But the thing about Blizzard that the people over on the official Overwatch forums have yet to realize is that Blizzard could give a damn about how many threads or posts people make, even if they reach a consensus about a hero being OP. All they use to balance their games is statistics. And seeing how McCree how an insanely high pick rate in competitive matches, sometimes who roll double, I would say we could expect another nerf to him soon.

Hopefully it's not laughable like a slightly longer reload time after a Fan, because that was completely missing the root of the problem.