The Liberal Blind Spot

[Venaliter]

Does this not contradict your previous statement that both parties have been shifting to the right? If the 1940's Republican platform looks more like the Democratic one today isn't that them both shifting to the right?

No. Republicans have moved right, true. But American democrats have moved even more left. That's why American politicians can accomplish nothing. The ideological divide has only gotten wider and wider. The Country was in it's greatness when common sense could prevail. That is no longer true.

[Deleted]

He literally claimed that women had less aptitude than men did. That is explicitly misogynistic, and it is not backed up by any "facts" whatsoever.

Because they do - At the top end, men dominate - This is as sure as the sky is blue, the sun is yellow.
The smartest person alive, is to 100% accuracy a man - Has statistically always been a man, and will always be an man.
This is not debatable - Its fact.

Also was taking flak for shielding a fellow Harvard economist from a lawsuit, which your own source makes clear, so don't pretend that he was facing pressure just over the misogyny.

Why should I care? - You clearly made pointing out reality an offence under feminist law - Read the post replied to, you conceded the point.

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That's my issue with the study that's claiming to show an ideological shift among professors over time. Both parties in the USA have been shifting to the right; I could pull out a dozen different statements or positions held by Ronald Reagan during his Presidency that would get the man labelled a RINO today. It's hardly surprising that a professor whose ideological views haven't really changed might have changed how they self-identify in the past 30 years, as what used to be a moderately conservative Republican position has now become a centrist Democratic one.

You do get, that since this is relative, Them not moving in sync, is essentially the same as them moving?

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The real issue here is that people are inviting Milo to make the conservative case instead of someone who can actually make a reasoned argument. He's speaking at a university near me sometime in the future as part of his 'Dangerous Faggot Tour,' and I'd go watch this trainwreck happen if they weren't charging for admission.

Everyone can make the reasonable argument - It takes about 5 minutes to reject feminism, progressivism, and the BLM - The problem? - their believers wont listen to reason.

[Deleted]

No. Republicans have moved right, true. But American democrats have moved even more left. That's why American politicians can accomplish nothing. The ideological divide has only gotten wider and wider. The Country was in it's greatness when common sense could prevail. That is no longer true.

Even more left?? America doesn't have a left party, when you look at all the current candidates there is only one guy on the left, and that is berny sanders. All the others are right, not even right center, but plain right wing. Just because something is left to something else in the political spectrum doesn't make it left by definition. As i've said before, its like calling Germany an eastern country because it is situated east of Great Britten. The democrats might have become more totalitarian but that isn't the same as "moving to the left" by any means.

[Deleted]

No. Republicans have moved right, true. But American democrats have moved even more left. That's why American politicians can accomplish nothing. The ideological divide has only gotten wider and wider. The Country was in it's greatness when common sense could prevail. That is no longer true.

The reality of it is that the left right divide is a series of axises, not just the one - Some have moved sharply to the left (what was a 'good' position on gay marriage 10 years ago, is now the height of homophobia) Others have moved to the right, such as relative size of the state.

[Venaliter]

You do get, that since this is relative, Them not moving in sync, is essentially the same as them moving?

Endus' point is flatly, provably wrong. Democrats are moving "left", and Republicans are moving "right". That said, your point would be a good one if that example wasn't wrong. We could debate it anew, but that study is already done. Why bother?

As to how fast each side is moving, I don't know and can't say. I would hazard a guess that the "left" side is moving faster, but that is just a guess and honestly not much more then an opinion. Mpemba effect?

The reality of it is that the left right divide is a series of axises, not just the one - Some have moved sharply to the left (what was a 'good' position on gay marriage 10 years ago, is now the height of homophobia) Others have moved to the right, such as relative size of the state.

Yes. There are four axis, just like you would see on a graph. Right, left, anarchy and fascism.

slightly OT humorous note: I am almost dead center of said graph, but my rabidly liberal sister still likes to call me a women hater and a conservatard. I like to call her a Lieberal and remind her extreme liberalism is a disease when I want to get a rise out of her. C'est la vie.

[Deleted]

The reality of it is that the left right divide is a series of axises, not just the one - Some have moved sharply to the left (what was a 'good' position on gay marriage 10 years ago, is now the height of homophobia) Others have moved to the right, such as relative size of the state.

I really do not see how accepting that gay is a thing is somehow "left", you might be able to call it "progressive" but thats not really it either. I would say its more science and acceptance if anything.

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Endus' point is flatly, provably wrong. Democrats are moving left, and Republicans are moving right. That said, your point would be a good one if that example wasn't wrong. We could debate it anew, but that study is already done. Why bother?

As to how fast each side is moving, I don't know and can't say. I would hazard a guess that the left side is moving faster, but that is just a guess and honestly not much more then an opinion, based on Obama, Clinton, and Bernie Sanders.

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Yes. There are four axis, just like you would see on a quadratic graph. Right, left, anarchy and fascism.

Do you realize that only one in that list is actually at the left side of the spectrum?

[Muadiib]

Yes this is a real issue, I really worry about the kinds of people universities are producing nowadays. Especially as many western universities (and schools) were created by Christian's to teach about Christianity and the Bible and for producing missionaries to send the gospel all throughout the world. Look it up if you don't believe me. These institutions have been usurped by people with a close mindedness that these places were meant to discourage through education and enlightenment. Thankfully God hasn't given up on us just yet, many will be restored to their original and correct purpose.

[Vargulf the Happy Husky]

maybe we should just do away with colleges. you idiots never really learn anything there anyways.

[Venaliter]

maybe we should just do away with colleges. you idiots never really learn anything there anyways.

While colleges are a joke, and companies like Google have gone on record lamenting the state of higher learning, certain (very narrow) programs like Nursing, Medicine are still worth something. The broader you go, the generally more worthless your diploma is. Ahem. Anyway.

Do you realize that only one in that list is actually at the left side of the spectrum?

If you are referring to the three examples of Clinton, Obama and Sanders, I would agree I should have used relatively "left" and "right".

...okay, not Sanders.

[Wildtree]

Illiberal liberals are a damn plague on higher education at the moment. I'm a firm believer that 'stupid' ideas should be allowed the same platforms as good ones, at worst they should be shot down in open discussion and all we lose is some time and at best there could be grains of truth in stupid ideas that let us refine the good ones.

In a capitalistic society time translates into money.
Means, you don't just lose time, you lose revenue too, or you pay for something that isn't worth a dime.
All depends from which angle you look at it.

[Deleted]

In a capitalistic society time translates into money.
Means, you don't just lose time, you lose revenue too, or you pay for something that isn't worth a dime.
All depends from which angle you look at it.

yes and picking the 'ideas' on arbitrary considerations, wont translate into bad action?
Even from a market perspective, you are wrong.

[Bollocks]

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/...d-further-left

Survey finds notable increase in proportion of professors who identify as "far left" or liberal, and declines for all other groups.

The data come from the University of California at Los Angeles Higher Education Research Institute, which surveys faculty members nationwide every three years on a range of attitudes.

Well, when conservatives associate with denial of man made climate change, take anti gay stances and creationism it's hard not to so why .

[Bodakane]

That's my issue with the study that's claiming to show an ideological shift among professors over time. Both parties in the USA have been shifting to the right; I could pull out a dozen different statements or positions held by Ronald Reagan during his Presidency that would get the man labelled a RINO today. It's hardly surprising that a professor whose ideological views haven't really changed might have changed how they self-identify in the past 30 years, as what used to be a moderately conservative Republican position has now become a centrist Democratic one.

Amen.

IMO, it has to do with how the Repub's took over the racial bigotry and xenophobia of the old Dems. Basically, what the Repubs have done is quite the trick as they appeal to the billionaire business owners AND the lower middle class to poor whites who feel like brown people took their jobs when it was really the billionaires they side with.

[Cthulhu 2020]

The liberal college crowd regressive left is like the southern racist conservative right. They're the blind spots for both parties.

In the case of college liberals, they grow up and realize the world doesn't work they want it to work and they stop their little regressivist ways. Either that or they become Hikkikomoris that whine on reddit all day. Meanwhile the real liberals, the true leaders and members of the left are doing grown up things and rooting for small businesses and rights for everyone.

In the case of racist southern conservatives... well I don't know what they "become", they just kind of stay the way they are their entire life, and the non racist conservatives like to pretend they don't exist.

So in both cases, each party has a nasty, extremist dark side, and one faction likes to try and paint these "blind spots" as the real "face" of liberal/conservative ideology, when both are far from the actual truth of the moderate majority.

So TL;DR, the extremists are the vocal minority.

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Absolutely false. Well, mostly false. It is true BOTH parties are becoming less centralist and more...polar, however. It is interesting to look back at 1940s Republican platform. You would think you were looking at a Democratic one.

That's because back then, the Democrats held onto the racist faction as part of their base. Once Democrats became more progressive, the southern racists were kind of this outcast bunch that really had no party affiliation, because both parties were for more rights for blacks. In comes the southern strategy and the Republican party picked up basically the southern racists and the religious nuts in one swoop.

Also



I cannot verify the validity of this graph, but it's been floating around the internet. But we know that both parties have been polarizing. Overall on an objective, worldly political scale, the middle has been moving further right. Reagan would look like a Democrat today

[Flatspriest]

Secondly, liberal always was considered a "right wing" ideology in my country. Based on Friedman's philosophies of maximum liberty for the people and as little as possible government interference and regulation. So to see it being used as a synonym for 'hippies' in the US just is absurd to me.

The thing is, the conservatives in the US are actually the ones who want smaller government with less oversight of the people. Every time the Democrats are in office, new departments are opened up in the government mainly for more oversight on the population and spending goes up drastically. The democrats are also the ones who try and raise taxes rather than freezing them or even lowering them as the republicans try to do when congress doesn't block them. Lower taxes means more money in your pocket rather than the governments. It also means that what you earn is more yours to do with as you will rather than all the "social" policies that want to take your money and give it to those to lazy to work for it themselves.

[Osmeric]

The thing is, the conservatives in the US are actually the ones who want smaller government with less oversight of the people.

Their actions demonstrate the falseness of your claim.

[Cthulhu 2020]

The thing is, the conservatives in the US are actually the ones who want smaller government with less oversight of the people. Every time the Democrats are in office, new departments are opened up in the government mainly for more oversight on the population and spending goes up drastically. The democrats are also the ones who try and raise taxes rather than freezing them or even lowering them as the republicans try to do when congress doesn't block them. Lower taxes means more money in your pocket rather than the governments. It also means that what you earn is more yours to do with as you will rather than all the "social" policies that want to take your money and give it to those to lazy to work for it themselves.

Bush gave us the biggest expansion of government powers since... ever.

People cry about Obama, but his biggest sin was just letting Bush policies continue. Although some of the Patriot Act (lol that name to get the citizenry behind it) was repealed under Obama, the critical parts were not. And to repeat, Obama's biggest sin there was letting Bush era HUGE government continue... and Obamacare. Which is like a grain of sand on the beach that is Bush era policy big government.

[Endus]

Because they do - At the top end, men dominate - This is as sure as the sky is blue, the sun is yellow.
The smartest person alive, is to 100% accuracy a man - Has statistically always been a man, and will always be an man.
This is not debatable - Its fact.

This is just flat-out untrue. You're just expressing misogyny. Go ahead; talk about how the smartest person alive has always been a white person, because white folks are smarter than everyone else. Same difference, applied to race rather than gender. Don't pretend that this isn't explicitly discriminatory.

Your entire argument boils down to confusing cultural advantages and societal pressures and privilege with biology.

Endus' point is flatly, provably wrong. Democrats are moving "left", and Republicans are moving "right". That said, your point would be a good one if that example wasn't wrong. We could debate it anew, but that study is already done. Why bother?

I get the impression that the only axis in politics you give any consideration to is civil rights, which is about the only area in which the Democrats are moving leftwards, and even there, they're moving fairly slowly. In terms of fiscal policy and such, the Democrats are more than a little right-wing.

[Deleted]

This is just flat-out untrue. You're just expressing misogyny. Go ahead; talk about how the smartest person alive has always been a white person, because white folks are smarter than everyone else. Same difference, applied to race rather than gender. Don't pretend that this isn't explicitly discriminatory.

Your entire argument boils down to confusing cultural advantages and societal pressures and privilege with biology.



I get the impression that the only axis in politics you give any consideration to is civil rights, which is about the only area in which the Democrats are moving leftwards, and even there, they're moving fairly slowly. In terms of fiscal policy and such, the Democrats are more than a little right-wing.

I really do not believe that facts are misogynistic, they just are. Just have a look at the nobel prize winners, most of them are men. This is largely because of gender roles over the ages, but that doesnt make it less true nor misogynistic. And that brings us to the white person thing you felt you needed to drag into this. When you look at the whole of history then it is a really stupid thing to say, there have been cultures blooming all over the world at different times. Most of the time they will have the smartest person alive. But, in recent history it have been white males that have hold this position, again, not because others are stupid but because of a better education systems. But in very recent history this has luckily changed a lot. Brilliant people are starting to come from all over the world, simply because they get a chance to bloom.

This is not racist, this is not sexist, this simply is how we have evolved/came out off the industrial revolution. This isn't to say that everything that evolved like it did is a good or a bad thing, it just is. So, the root problem here isn't racism or sexism but rather a lack of education or a lack of interest in certain fields.

[Osmeric]

This is just flat-out untrue. You're just expressing misogyny. Go ahead; talk about how the smartest person alive has always been a white person, because white folks are smarter than everyone else. Same difference, applied to race rather than gender. Don't pretend that this isn't explicitly discriminatory.

I suspect the smartest person alive has more often been Asian than European (or of European descent).