Why do people ignore normal raid difficulty?

[Taeldorian]

Why are you trying to say "I can find groups with LFG"? It's a flawed argument by inception. All they are saying is that LFR is easier to find a group with and that's by definition true even if you are a mythic raider that killed archimonde last summer.

That's not even close to being true.There's many things that can contribute to having an easier time than the 1-2 hour LFR ques. 1. Having a guild. Want to have an easier time finding a group? Organized raiding. Makes it easier than LFR. 2. Premade group finder. This is going to vary and may or may not be easier to find a group than LFR. As a healer even with my lowish Ilvl I get accepted plenty and with that happening the group I join can usually clear the first 2 bosses before my LFR que would have even popped.

Are you trying to say LFR is easier to find a group because all you have to do is que for it? That's not even close to being true. Join a group that's already almost full (usually 2/3/9 or 1/2/8 or unless it's a larger group) and bam. One takes 1-2 hours, the other takes 5-10 minutes/10-20.

This is the important part though: This also depends on what you're really trying to do. If you're trying to kill that one boss you missed during the last pug or the last raid day in your guild for that one piece of loot, obviously LFR would be quicker because you can select which area you want to start in. If you just want a fresh run for whatever reason (collecting tomes, getting gear, etc) than pugging through premade would ultimately be faster and even easier.

[Sencha]

Because they are lazy to create a group.

By the way, LFR difficulty should be the current normal difficulty.

[Deleted]

I would like LFR was removed and normal raiding was the way to go.
Nothing good comes from LFR. its 1 big facepalm. But the bosses/mechanics and the ppl in the raid. Its almost like LFR forces ppl to be shit, afk or childish behavior in the chat. Im not doing LFR simply because of that. And ofc because normal raiding is faceroll aswell. Even HC is

[Pull My Finger]

I think it's obvious. Normal is in a pretty weird spot and in a way highlights the lack of proper content in the game.

People who don't do normal aren't interested because there's no matchmaking tool for it. Simple as that. It's totally understandable. Manually forming groups is a boring and at times tedious exercise, and often potentially even annoying due to the bullshit "social aspect" (meaning: players with stupid demands, dumb ideas, silly attitudes, lacking skill/gear, whatever). Is it that surprising that a lot of people just don't really want to put up with that, instead of logging on and doing what they're actually here for - playing the game?

Many people do LFR not because they're so interested in raids or whatever, but because it's the content that's being offered to them. I'm sure that if Blizzard had more interesting options for moderate players and generally those who aren't interested in participating in organized raiding, a lot of people would be happily doing that instead of LFR. The problem is that LFR, while being arguably the most mundane and boring form of content, is at the same time the most accessible one and measured by input, obscenely rewarding.

[TheDeeGee]

I personally can't be bothered advertising myself to join a Normal Raid.

I like to Queue up do other stuff in the meantime.

- - - Updated - - -

I would like LFR was removed and normal raiding was the way to go.
Nothing good comes from LFR. its 1 big facepalm. But the bosses/mechanics and the ppl in the raid. Its almost like LFR forces ppl to be shit, afk or childish behavior in the chat. Im not doing LFR simply because of that. And ofc because normal raiding is faceroll aswell. Even HC is

Then why does LFR need to be removed if you don't even do it.

/doublefacepalm

[Sanct]

My experience with normal pugs this late in the expansion hasn't been great for toons with appropriate item level. It's much easier to hit the sweet spot through pvp/mythic dungeons and pug into lower heroic, then move on to upper heroic.

Also not having tier bonuses/trinkets/legendary ring severely gimps dps classes in terms of performance.

[Deleted]

That's not even close to being true.There's many things that can contribute to having an easier time than the 1-2 hour LFR ques. 1. Having a guild.

That looks at a tree and doesn't see the forest. To have an organized guild is not just a matter of thinking of it. It is enormous work to make right so LFR will be easier on the big picture for everyone because they have to do nothing, not even apply to it (same goes for organizing a custom raid or looking for a custom raid).

[Deleted]

If you are good enough to do normal, you can do heroic.

So that's what people do.

Normal was supposed to be the F+F mode, but it launched overtuned for that purpose, and required larger groups to do it effectively. Most of the F+F guilds died and quit back in highmaul because of this, so now normal is just sat there like a fart in a car.

[Taeldorian]

That looks at a tree and doesn't see the forest. To have an organized guild is not just a matter of thinking of it. It is enormous work to make right so LFR will be easier on the big picture for everyone because they have to do nothing, not even apply to it (same goes for organizing a custom raid or looking for a custom raid).

I do see what you're saying. I feel like it depends on a lot of things though. Saying LFR is easier or premade Group finder is easier is somewhat stupid (I did this as well) because it all depends on the situation.

[Deleted]

I personally can't be bothered advertising myself to join a Normal Raid.

I like to Queue up do other stuff in the meantime.

- - - Updated - - -



Then why does LFR need to be removed if you don't even do it.

/doublefacepalm

Because it Will force the plebz to know Their class to avoid being kicked from every single pug they Join.
The better the average is the more smooth will pugs be. I know its a dream that Will never come true.

And Btw, you can still do other stuff While searching for a grp, and do some stuff that doesnt Incl. Questing while grp is forming.

/facepalm back

[Pull My Finger]

->Either you are a jerk (socially inept), or so bad at the game that you dont want to join a guild or cannot join and stay in a guild.

Or perhaps people have better plans for their free time than enduring the company of charming, likeable socially apt types like yourself.

[Deleted]

The most interesting aspect is, that the environment of a normal raid and LFR is vastly different. This alone makes the gap too big for many people to even try normal.

Normal was included to the game to help existing organized groups who suffered a lot on t14 and t15 entry-bosses, blocking them with 0 or 1 boss killed and no progression in weeks. They wished nerfing LFR and having normal would be enough to get WoD nonraiders into raiding but they completely misunderstood what I wrote above - the atmosphere and environment is still vastly different, it would need far less mechanics and far less coordination requirements to make it work.

[psyquest]

Or perhaps people have better plans for their free time than enduring the company of charming, likeable socially apt types like yourself.

If they feel they have a better time than being part of a cohesive group to have some fun gaming sessions, then like you, they should take care of whatever activity will suit them better, outside of wow.

no offense meant.

[Pull My Finger]

If they feel they have a better time than being part of a cohesive group to have some fun gaming sessions, then like you, they should take care of whatever activity will suit them better, outside of wow.

no offense meant.

Oh I'm fine, and other people, obviously, are as well. All it takes is cutting you out of the picture. Totally no offense meant.

[Advent]

The problem is, in the game, people often suck. And I don't mean their performance. Personally, I got my fill of having to be on for a block of time every week, so I don't join guilds anymore. I also get bored very easily, and when I do, I swap games. If I'm in the middle of a raid and I get bored, which happened quite often during the tail end of my raiding career, I want to be able to drop group without feeling this social weight bearing down on me; making me feel like an ass for simply losing interest.

[Frolk]

they are to lazy to find/make an group, to lazy to put in effort to learn their class/get gear to get into said groups

BUT, not to lazy that they wont bitch about not getting into groups on the forums

[psyquest]

The problem is, in the game, people often suck. And I don't mean their performance. Personally, I got my fill of having to be on for a block of time every week, so I don't join guilds anymore. I also get bored very easily, and when I do, I swap games. If I'm in the middle of a raid and I get bored, which happened quite often during the tail end of my raiding career, I want to be able to drop group without feeling this social weight bearing down on me; making me feel like an ass for simply losing interest.

I totally understand that. I went through a phase like that and stop pve and focused on pvp, playing rerolls and doing things when I wanted. try it, you get to do things that are fun when you want and you can stop when you want. Also with 2 mates to do pvp you can easily schedule pvp sessions and cancel when you want.

- - - Updated - - -

they are to lazy to find/make an group, to lazy to put in effort to learn their class/get gear to get into said groups

BUT, not to lazy that they wont bitch about not getting into groups on the forums

Some people do not want to "learn" their class, but I found that most noobs are willing to learn if you approach them the correct way.

I played with a mage that was honestly horrible. I whispered him to enquire if he was new and wanted to help advice with his class or quests. At the begining the guy was defensive but once he understood that I was really offering help, he mellowed down and we had a long discussion on mage specs, gearing, rotations and addons.

This guy that could barely play in an instance is now close to clearing heroic with a group. He felt confident enough to go for it and found a cool group that raid 1 or 2 nights with no required presence.

There is a massive difference between this guy and the horrible players in lfr that pretend not to have time and are ok wasting it in queues. Nevermind those that are socially inept and borderline sociopaths...

[DarthMonk79]

You're at literally the same Ilvl I am. I'm not sure what you main but the difference might be that I'm a holy paladin. I forgot to mention in the post you quoted that it also comes down to what you play. For example at Ilvl 705 on my warrior I get denied constantly, same with my hunter and on my hpaladin I get accepted almost instantly. If you play well you also get to stay if they need to reform later down the line as well.

If you apply to groups that are practically full (I usually only do this) you'll more than likely get declined if you're 1. a dps and/or 2. a really common dps (hunter/mage). All of that is neglected if you have a 725-730+ Ilvl though.

Yeah my main for raiding this xpac was my mage. Though I have 9 other characters at 700 ilvl. I just usually dps, haven't healed or tanked in forever. I really should get back into it.

[Deleted]

I personally would love to ignore normal and go straight into heroics but unfortunately, the player base and recruitment pool just have not got the skill anymore and Im not interested in going hardcore

[Deleted]

love to ignore normal and go straight into heroics

We are confusing the current state of the game with the start of tiers here. Normal mode is a decent difficulty and challenging for the average mythic guild when they enter with entry gear. e.g. killing Imperator Mar'gok the first week of opened raids in WoD was decent challenge and to do the same in heroic mode it took only the best ~200 guilds in the world to do it relatively reliably (forgive me if the ranking is not perfectly accurate but it wasn't easy for the average guild in any case).