The Liberal Blind Spot

[Endus]

It is not just European gender roles, it are gender roles in basic. You will not send out a mother that is still breast feeding a child to hunt if you can manage it any other way.

And yet, plenty of cultures had women who hunted, or were warriors. You're overlooking that, for no justifiable reason. Hell, some of them (like the Celts) were European. There's a reason why Athena was the Goddess of the Hunt, in ancient Greece. Because women who hunted weren't by any means unknown.

Anyway, we're getting more than a little off-topic at this point.

[Deleted]

This is patently untrue. In both directions. There's IQ studies that show a racial disparity, and those are just as uncompelling as the gender studies for the same reasons; because they are strongly biased by cultural factors and social class and so forth.
Proves absolutely nothing, since you're talking about a cultural expression.

Yes western society treats chess as a 'male' activity.
Since when?

This doesn't really demonstrate anything, because again;
1> IQ is heavily affected by culture and privilege, and
2> IQ is a really piss-poor measure of "intelligence" in the first place

There are more male retards than female retards - Agree or disagree? Or was that misandry?
Meta studies of IQ testing consistently show males having a higher IQ (small +) - In fact, the vast majority of IQ testing then fudges the number here a bit to ensure the average is the same - If there are more male retards, and the male average is better or the same - The only mathematicall possibility left is that the male apex is large.
The male bell curve being broader is not a debatable fact Endus - Its consistent with reality, with the data, and evolutionary pressures.

[Deleted]

And yet, plenty of cultures had women who hunted, or were warriors. You're overlooking that, for no justifiable reason. Hell, some of them (like the Celts) were European. There's a reason why Athena was the Goddess of the Hunt, in ancient Greece. Because women who hunted weren't by any means unknown.

Anyway, we're getting more than a little off-topic at this point.

Of course it was done, but if it could be helped they would stay as safe as possible. And to explain every difference away as cultural is really oversimplifying something we can clearly see happening.

[Garnier Fructis]

Everyone can make the reasonable argument - It takes about 5 minutes to reject feminism, progressivism, and the BLM - The problem? - their believers wont listen to reason.

Oh, bullshit. The only way to to do this in 5 minutes is to make a one liner and then insult your way to 'victory.' Time scale aside, this is largely what Milo does, and why he's completely ineffective at actually convincing people. And he knows this: he only really cares about pissing people off, not about making the case for conservatism.

[Spectral]

I find it entertaining that the thread is about the "Liberal Blind Spot" and has turned to the IQ denialism, which is pretty much the ultimate liberal blind spot. The rejection of there being significant genetic and innate components to intellect is positively absurd, yet here we are.

[Deleted]

Yes western society treats chess as a 'male' activity.
Since when?

There are more male retards than female retards - Agree or disagree? Or was that misandry?
Meta studies of IQ testing consistently show males having a higher IQ (small +) - In fact, the vast majority of IQ testing then fudges the number here a bit to ensure the average is the same - If there are more male retards, and the male average is better or the same - The only mathematicall possibility left is that the male apex is large.
The male bell curve being broader is not a debatable fact Endus - Its consistent with reality, with the data, and evolutionary pressures.

No no, its clearly cultural pressure!? /s

[Draco-Onis]

The right has made it pretty clear that they do not like science, facts and ridicule education on the regular basis. So it's pretty obvious that getting a good education above junior high school level would contradict with their agenda. It's amusing that they try so hard to find discrimination against conservatives versus the actually discrimination that they openly displays against immigrants, people of colors, Muslims, LGBT etc.

[Spectral]

Meta studies of IQ testing consistently show males having a higher IQ (small +) - In fact, the vast majority of IQ testing then fudges the number here a bit to ensure the average is the same...

This female biased skewing of tests is also present on the SAT and GRE. Math, where males outperform females, is capped at a level that a significant percentage of the population achieves, which effectively strips away high-end granularity from those best at math. Verbal scores, on the other hand, don't suffer from this problem to any significant extent.

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The right has made it pretty clear that they do not like science, facts and ridicule education on the regular basis. So it's pretty obvious that getting a good education above junior high school level would contradict with their agenda. It's amusing that they try so hard to find discrimination against conservatives versus the actually discrimination that they openly displays against immigrants, people of colors, Muslims, LGBT etc.

Why do you figure that there's not really much of a Republican/Democrat split among college graduates if conservatives are all just idiots that hate education beyond junior high?

[Deleted]

Your only attempt to defend the idea that no women are as smart as smart men are studies that are deeply flawed, using a poor measurement in the first place (IQ), and one which has much-studied ethnic and gender biases.

I will overlook the strawman, and reiterate - Why if women are just as capable as men to be world class chess champions are there no female ones?
More importantly, last i checked, the ratio was about 1:9 - That means that assuming a standard distribution there should consistently be a top 10 female - Better actually as its more likely (in the universe where females are discouraged to play) that the good ones stay in a greater degree than the bad ones.
But that is not the case.

[Spectral]

And yet, plenty of cultures had women who... were warriors.

For some values of "plenty", I suppose. Humans are a big, varied species and it's generally possible to find oddball cultures that are exceptions to typical norms, but there really aren't all that many female warriors overall.

[Deleted]

Oh, bullshit. The only way to to do this in 5 minutes is to make a one liner and then insult your way to 'victory.' Time scale aside, this is largely what Milo does, and why he's completely ineffective at actually convincing people. And he knows this: he only really cares about pissing people off, not about making the case for conservatism.

I usually aproach things this way;
step one; can i convince this person ?
If yes, then try to, If not, step two; proceed to mock and try to make it clear to all onlookers that this person is deluded - Preferable by moving them into a position where they say something internally correct, but externally laughable.

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For some values of "plenty", I suppose. Humans are a big, varied species and it's generally possible to find oddball cultures that are exceptions to typical norms, but there really aren't all that many female warriors overall.

That's not entirely true, several culture had warrior women - Almost exclusively horse archers though.

[Garnier Fructis]

I usually aproach things this way;
step one; can i convince this person ?
If yes, then try to, If not, step two; proceed to mock and try to make it clear to all onlookers that this person is deluded - Preferable by moving them into a position where they say something internally correct, but externally laughable.

The real way to show someone is deluded is to refute their arguments with valid arguments, not to mock people and act like an arrogant douchebag. Doing the latter generally doesn't look very good to onlookers. Mocking is lazy.

[Spectral]

That's not entirely true, several culture had warrior women - Almost exclusively horse archers though.

Right, several. Out of thousands of cultures. The typical military throughout the majority of history consists primarily of young, disposable males with a small elite set of leaders. There are, of course, exceptions because of the massive diversity of cultures, but there's also a very obvious pattern.

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The real way to show someone is deluded is to refute their arguments with valid arguments, not to mock people and act like an arrogant douchebag. Doing the latter generally doesn't look very good to onlookers. Mocking is lazy.

This depends on whether one is trying to make an argument that's compelling to outsiders or whether one is just signaling for the ingroup. Mockery works as intended when all someone is really trying to do is appeal to their own ingroup. Doing this is a dumb monkey instinct, but I'm pretty sure there aren't many of us that are never guilty of it.

[Deleted]

Right, several. Out of thousands of cultures. The typical military throughout the majority of history consists primarily of young, disposable males with a small elite set of leaders. There are, of course, exceptions because of the massive diversity of cultures, but there's also a very obvious pattern.

Yes, but if we only look at horse nomads, female warriors is (relatively speaking) common.
But you are right, the vast majority of 'warriors' are and has always been your disposable males.

[Dezerte]

I find it entertaining that the thread is about the "Liberal Blind Spot" and has turned to the IQ denialism, which is pretty much the ultimate liberal blind spot. The rejection of there being significant genetic and innate components to intellect is positively absurd, yet here we are.

IQ is a questionable metric for intelligence, though.

[Deleted]

This depends on whether one is trying to make an argument that's compelling to outsiders or whether one is just signaling for the ingroup. Mockery works as intended when all someone is really trying to do is appeal to their own ingroup. Doing this is a dumb monkey instinct, but I'm pretty sure there aren't many of us that are never guilty of it.

I resent that - I'm a smart monkey.
I live in Sweden, so when i have to proceed to mockery, the out group, is already in agreement with them.

[Garnier Fructis]

This depends on whether one is trying to make an argument that's compelling to outsiders or whether one is just signaling for the ingroup. Mockery works as intended when all someone is really trying to do is appeal to their own ingroup. Doing this is a dumb monkey instinct, but I'm pretty sure there aren't many of us that are never guilty of it.

Well yeah, I've done it on this forum as well.

[Draco-Onis]

Why do you figure that there's not really much of a Republican/Democrat split among college graduates if conservatives are all just idiots that hate education beyond junior high?

That's not what I said the right wing has made it pretty clear that they have a disdain for education but that is coming from Harvard / Stanford / Yale graduates. The person who wrote this article is highly educated though the right does it's best to sabotage educations with creationism, pushing for history books that have a more cheerful view of slavery they know the value of a good education. This is similar as to how they tout they want smaller government while the biggest expansions of governments and attacks of personal liberties come under their control.

[Deleted]

IQ is a questionable metric for intelligence, though.

Its like democracy, it doesnt work very well, but it is the best we have.

[Spectral]

IQ is a questionable metric for intelligence, though.

It really isn't. Modern IQ tests are heavily g-loaded and highly predictive of academic success, such that there are effective minimum cut-lines for prestigious professions and success in these careers is well predicated by IQ. Here, read more about it. This isn't a perfect measure, but it's a lot better than all sorts of things that people readily accept as basically valid - in fact, it's one of the most practically validated and replicable sets of social psychology findings.

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That's not what I said the right wing has made it pretty clear that they have a disdain for education but that is coming from Harvard / Stanford / Yale graduates. The person who wrote this article is highly educated though the right does it's best to sabotage educations with creationism, pushing for history books that have a more cheerful view of slavery they know the value of a good education. This is similar as to how they tout they want smaller government while the biggest expansions of governments and attacks of personal liberties come under their control.

I honestly don't know what you're driving at here. This is kind of all over the place.