[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[eschatological]

Martin might be playing on words "No it's not Benjen" might mean it's not Benjen at all, his body is just a vessel for another spirit. I suppose we'll know before the end..

The source where Martin claims it's not Benjen is actually an original manuscript of ADwD being displayed at a university, where the editor in the margins questions, "Is this Benjen? If so, why doesn't Bran recognize him?" to which Martin responds "NO." As in, not only is it not Benjen, but his body is not recognized by Bran either, who spends quite a bit of time with him in the books. Not to mention the other contextual clues that Coldhands is much, much older than Benjen's disappearance.

[Deleted]

Maybe Sam's dad will chase him north and learn for himself that the WW are real.

Sam isn't going North, he's going to Oldtown to spend the next however many years learning to become a Maester, to one day return to the Wall that will probably be over run with White Walkers and zombies at that point.

[dwightyo39]

Sam isn't going North, he's going to Oldtown to spend the next however many years learning to become a Maester, to one day return to the Wall that will probably be over run with White Walkers and zombies at that point.

I know he is supposed to go to oldtown. It just wouldn't make sense for Sam to take the sword and go there now that his dad knows that is the plan.

[Deleted]

I know he is supposed to go to oldtown. It just wouldn't make sense for Sam to take the sword and go there now that his dad knows that is the plan.

It doesn't make sense for Sam to take the sword full stop, he knows Randyll will come for him where ever he goes.

[TickTickTick]

@Mellisandre turning old - once i had a thought, that maybe it wasn't that she is so old. Remember that it happened between Jon's death and Jon's ressurection. With him dead, Davos and Mellisandre were in danger, cause they were his guests. And we all know what angry men do to beautiful women in westeros. Maybe she intentionaly made herself look like that cause she knew the end was near and she wanted to avoid rape? Then she woke up and nothing happened, to she returned to her normal look. Just a thought.
@burn them all - i can already see that: because of some strange connection between bran's visions and benjen being half WW, the mad king had a vision of the others and yelled at his soldiers to burn them all, resulting in the madness. remember it's all bran's fault, right?
@Benjen - anyone else felt weird about this part? like, the last time we saw him he was the first ranger of night's watch, now all of a sudden he appears and talks about 3ER, children of the forest, bran being 3ER now, night king etc. It seems so off...
@TomMen and Sam - felt really angry at those two, like really... such weak characters with no balls. when tommen talked with jamie, he looked like he was going to cry. when sam's father was insulting him, he was just tilting saying absolutely nothing. just those two scenes made me hate the characters, they dont belong to got world.
@Arya - why did she remain in the house of black and white? does she really believe the faceless men have no idea what she's done? although i must say, her preventing the actress from drinking the poison was kinda badass, and the warning "look for her. she wants you dead' was really cool
@Dany - boring and irrelevant, nothing more to say cause nothing more we learned today. she wants to sail to westeros - cheer! been hearing that since season 2

overall pretty calm episode, not boring, not interesting, just so so...

[Gallahadd]

Heh it's funny how brave Sam is... As long as no one is there to challenge him.

Good episode overall, although I feel like the Benjen reveal was a bit underplayed... Dudes been missing since season one and only gets one 30 second scene for his come back? Lame.

The last scene with Dany? Blerg, god she sucks. I REALLY hope she ends up being the baddie and the Westerosi bad boys fuck her up. Maybe steal her dragons.

[Jotaux]

I liked that Sam took that sword. That sword is his by right.

[lakisa]

That's one Valyrian steel sword that will be used for fighting the Others (instead of being unused as it was until then)

he can't reach wall with sword unless plot armor, you really thing fat guy with baby and girl can outrun trained hunters/soldiers?

[Gallahadd]

I believe they were trying to subtlety show that Benjen is now Coldhands.

They can subtly show that he's Coldhands, while still making the reveal not be balls.

That said, his first scene, with him murdering fools with his firemace and wildly inappropriate Kusurigama was freakin badass.

[Deleted]

Yeah but the sword isn't Sams by right at all, he gave up his claims when he joined the Nights Watch. He's still a man of the Nights Watch, he hasn't renounced his vows like Jon.

[Jotaux]

Yeah but the sword isn't Sams by right at all, he gave up his claims when he joined the Nights Watch. He's still a man of the Nights Watch, he hasn't renounced his vows like Jon.

He was forced to join under the threat of death. Usually taking an oath or signing a contract under duress is not binding. And no where in the Night's Watch oath does it say he would not be entitled to the sword as his birthright. He is restricted from wife, children, lands, crowns, and glory.

[Gallahadd]

What makes me laugh is someone coming up to Jon Snow again to tell him that they found his Uncle Benjen.

Hahaha, hadn't even thought of that ������ Going to be an awkward task.

[Sooba]

I believe they were trying to subtlety show that Benjen is now Coldhands.

That was subtle? It was underplayed, but there was nothing subtle about it. It was showing his face and "Uncle Benjen?" - that's about as subtle as a baseball bat.

To be clear though, I liked the fact that it was underplayed. I don't think everything needs fanfare. And there has been so much fascination around Benjen already. The guy was never about the fanfare or intrigue.

[Deleted]

That was subtle? It was underplayed, but there was nothing subtle about it. It was showing his face and "Uncle Benjen?" - that's about as subtle as a baseball bat.

To be clear though, I liked the fact that it was underplayed. I don't think everything needs fanfare. And there has been so much fascination around Benjen already. The guy was never about the fanfare or intrigue.

And then they explained exactly what happened to him.

Its the same as the Walder Frey, its was nothing but Riverlands exposition that wouldn't have been needed if they hadn't tried to cut so many storylines out in there race to the finish line, and now attempt to shoehorn them back in when they need to pad it out for another season.

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He was forced to join under the threat of death. Usually taking an oath or signing a contract under duress is not binding. And no where in the Night's Watch oath does it say he would not be entitled to the sword as his birthright. He is restricted from wife, children, lands, crowns, and glory.

Crowns = lordships/titles, the sword is wielded by the head of the house, the guy with the title, ergo it isn't Sams at all.

But really were getting into the nitty gritty here, when the real fact is that Sams father will come and track him down to get that sword back, or more than likely send some men after him to kill him and take it back.

[Wilian]

They keep ruining Sam's character more and more. I am sad.

[Sooba]

It doesn't make sense for Sam to take the sword full stop, he knows Randyll will come for him where ever he goes.

If Sam was headed straight back to the wall. (I know he's not). And if he felt he could get his father to see a white walker before his father offed him, he might feel it was actually a very good course of action. I'm not sure what the plan is with him going to the citadel though.

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They keep ruining Sam's character more and more. I am sad.

? I... what?

[Wilian]

They took away his most important moment of everything, made him look like fumbling fool while he wasn't and now make him do stupid ass shit he wouldn't.

[Sooba]

One thought of mine was that Jon might marry Dany (incest was common amoungst Targ's, anyway), and either accidentally or on purpose (with Dany's consent), would kill her, and she would be the sacrifice needed for Lightbringer, similar to what Azor Ahai did with his wife -

"This time, he called for his wife, Nissa Nissa, and asked her to bare her breast. He drove his sword into her breast, her soul combining with the steel of the sword, creating Lightbringer, while her cry of anguish and ecstasy left a crack across the face of the moon."

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... or maybe she doesn't even need to be his wife. Maybe she just needs to die to his sword in a similar fashion.

Or in reverse if Lightbringer actually turns out to be symbolic of dragons.

Nissa Nissa is a tough character to pin down. A wide variety of characters could be "her".

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They took away his most important moment of everything, made him look like fumbling fool while he wasn't and now make him do stupid ass shit he wouldn't.

I'm not so sure it's as stupid as you are making it out to be, (assuming you're speaking of the sword). Sam is a rather intelligent guy and might well have a plan. What moment are you referring to exactly? As for the fumbling part, he returned to the man who abused him all his life. I'm not surprised he wilted. That's a typical response and is representative of human nature.

[Wilian]

Or in reverse if Lightbringer actually turns out to be symbolic of dragons.

Nissa Nissa is a tough character to pin down. A wide variety of characters could be "her".

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I'm not so sure it's as stupid as you are making it out to be, (assuming you're speaking of the sword). Sam is a rather intelligent guy and might well have a plan. What moment are you referring to exactly? As for the fumbling part, he returned to the man who abused him all his life. I'm not surprised he wilted. That's a typical response and is representative of human nature.

He is meant to be intelligent yes, but the show keeps making him a stupid fuck over and over again.

[Sooba]

I've been trying to find timeline's for births and Robert's Rebellion, just to see how valid the Meera/Jon theory could be. What I have found is as follows.

The source of the "Meera and Jon are related" is from show watchers who thought that the two actors looked alike. It really doesn't have any evidence in the books or show.