[Legion] Shadow Priest Discussion

[Ilir]

We (Shadow Priests) arent't aoe focused. That is quite evident. We do have tools but nothing thst makes us go nuts at aoe. With that being said, we are multi target focused big time. While the fury warrior is spamming his aoe on adds, the Shadow Priest is pumping out equal damage to the 3 or 4 targets with high health. Our damage scales up faster and higher with every target introduced with substantial health. The catch is we do not have the tools for true aoe. This is what the spec is now in legion and it DOES work. Its drastically different than wod's but you can overcome the concerns many people bring up.

Yeah, except the thing is, while we have to basically be gcd locked/keep tab targetting/using 100000 addons/macro to do this, some others classes juste have to do their basic ST rotation/or have a spell that cleaves passively/spread the dots.
There won't be as many "multidot/council" type of fight. So like I said earlier : it's a shitty niche to have.

And we don't ask to be compared to DH/War in aoe. We just want to be ABOVE the tanks in aoe, how hard is it to understand ? It just feels AWEFUL to be below TANKS as a DPS class. DPS should always be higher than tanks in dps in ALL scenarios. Healers should always be above tanks and dps in ALL scenarios.

To get to another point. I am aware that some here now are viewing things from other people's perspective. You see someone who has access to the game, have a complaint and ride that boat. I can guarantee to those without access that the moment you touch a level 110 shadow priest with full artifact access your perspective on the spec will change drastically.

Please stop with that. Stop implying that you know how people will react if they get to play or saying that those (aka me for example) who got the beta but disagree with you are wrong. You're dismissing everything we say.

Things arent as black or white as they appear on these forums. There is a crowd, for example, who feel/think that we lack survivabilty in pve. Yet you have many tools for keeping yourself topped out. You have the VT heal and its artifact trait that gives you an absorption at full health and the talent San'layn. You have dispersion and its 1.5 min cd heal. You have a shield. You have Vampiric Embrace and for last resort you have shadowmend. If you do keep dying it really isn't about the lack of survivabilty. Either the healers are doing something wrong, the tank not doing what they are supposed to, dps arent following mechanics or simply the shadowpriest is standing in fire.

On this I agree, our survability isn't bad in dungeon/raid content, far from it.

In pvp our survivability toolkit is even more impressive. You have to know and predict exactly when you will need to use those abilities but thats the catch. You cant spam shield and think that is whats going to keep you alive but you do shirld when youre about to shell damage to gain the leech healing, which is op when done right. Like 10 - 100% health type shit. The only way to stop this absurd healing is to stun you because you have access to it every ~6s.

Again, you're basically saying that Theed doesn't know how to play his priest in pvp and that he needs to l2p.... you're absolutely wrong. What's the point in having all of our survability tied to some "op" pvp talents (meaning we have 2 talents in each row that are completely outclassed/uselees) that require us to DAMAGE in order to SURVIVE. All of our survability is tied to our damage. In group pve content, it's fine. It's even a little strong since you're not tanking/you get passively healed by the healers + your dps.

But in PVP : you can't attack, you can't heal. They reduce your damage/nerf your damage => nerf our survability. Melee have instant heal, instant dash, instant stun/silence/interrupt/freaking anti magic/anti cc everywhere. We have no mobility, we're forced to facetanks while not being able to retaliate. We're overly dependant on our teammate, I'd rather take a melee class and do my thing.

The spec isnt unplayble, no matter how some would like to portray it. The spec however drastically changed and has gained incredible new strengths and incredible new weaknesses.

True.

What the class does lack and it has improved since the start is lack of interesting or competitive talent choices that make sense.

Hope everyone gets beta access soon.

Agreed.

[Sxq]

Stuff

I mean, as someone who doesn't care about pvp the concept of melee vs range doesn't really interest me at all. Any changes that went towards this aim but made the class worse in raid scenarios would be a negative to me.

I'm not saying any feedback matters or doesn't matter, just that there's a shit ton of conflicting feedback. And most of it is just shit where if they did listen the game would end up worse.

Obviously there are some glaring issues that they are turning a blind to in the form of conflicting talents, weaknesses, etc.

[RsinRC]

Yeah, except the thing is, while we have to basically be gcd locked/keep tab targetting/using 100000 addons/macro to do this, some others classes juste have to do their basic ST rotation/or have a spell that cleaves passively/spread the dots.
There won't be as many "multidot/council" type of fight. So like I said earlier : it's a shitty niche to have.

No not really. Let me ask you, did you need a ton of macros/ addons for WoD? I have yet to even see this on the beta or heard of anyone actually doing this yet you say it like its the normal. The only thing that changed is having VB and it refreshing dots. We are gcd locked with a limit right now but that limit will increase with gear and set bonuses and that gcd lock is because I already mentioned, the more targets we can dps our damage rises exponentially because of how our spec works. You apply your dots and VB those targets. If one target's dots fall off before you get to VB them that is part of the rotation. Don't assume you can keep up dots infinitely on multiple targets. That would be broken.

And we don't ask to be compared to DH/War in aoe. We just want to be ABOVE the tanks in aoe, how hard is it to understand ? It just feels AWEFUL to be below TANKS as a DPS class. DPS should always be higher than tanks in dps in ALL scenarios. Healers should always be above tanks and dps in ALL scenarios.

And I'm sorry but that is COMPLETE and UTTER hyperbole (B u l l s h i t) to say that we are under tanks and you said that many times before. It doesn't help not 1 bit. The base spec on its own does not behave like a aoe class. Even then we have a few abilities and gear bonuses that will drastically help but the base spec of shadow isn't for aoe. Sucks to hear, see or play out if you ARE a fan of aoe but that is where they're heading with it. I'm not saying it's a good thing but that it is what it is and that it does/is working.

Please stop with that. Stop implying that you know how people will react if they get to play or saying that those (aka me for example) who got the beta but disagree with you are wrong. You're dismissing everything we say.

I'm not going to stop because when I didn't have access, and I even noticed when DJriff and a few others got their access and commented on the spec they gained a whole new outlook on it. People were saying things that in actual gameplay really wasn't being that huge of a problem. The thought of something vs the actual experience on something are vastly different and that is what I'm trying to point out.

Again, you're basically saying that Theed doesn't know how to play his priest in pvp and that he needs to l2p.... you're absolutely wrong. What's the point in having all of our survability tied to some "op" pvp talents (meaning we have 2 talents in each row that are completely outclassed/uselees) that require us to DAMAGE in order to SURVIVE. All of our survability is tied to our damage. In group pve content, it's fine. It's even a little strong since you're not tanking/you get passively healed by the healers + your dps.

But its what we have and we have to make best use out of them. Void Shield is accessible every 6-7 seconds. You can have 50% of your damage be converted into healing - every 6-7 seconds. A stun is every 30s+. Theed complains mostly about lack of talent choices. But I know he knows that he isn't at 100% legion shadow priest potential and neither am I but what I do know is that I can play the next game a bit better and in 2's there will always be those comps that are a massive wall for us Shadow Priests to overcome. That is the nature of this spec and game. It is an active chess game. When it comes to 3s or more our class becomes something that is very intimidating. It is where we shine. Sucky in 1 department while great in another does not mean that the whole spec sucks.

But in PVP : you can't attack, you can't heal. They reduce your damage/nerf your damage => nerf our survability. Melee have instant heal, instant dash, instant stun/silence/interrupt/freaking anti magic/anti cc everywhere. We have no mobility, we're forced to facetanks while not being able to retaliate. We're overly dependant on our teammate, I'd rather take a melee class and do my thing.

It does feel that way. Because it is for the most part. When alone or cornered. I mean we do need a weakness. Does it mean that we will ALWAYS die? No thats insane to think that, you do have to play your part to survive. If you lack cd's then like every other spec you're fucked. If you have all your cd's make sure you use them right.

What really bothers me in pvp is that we've become this damage to selfheal type of tanky class yet we have to be always on the run. They took out our kiting toolkit in and replaced it with self heals yet it plays more like I still need/want to run a shit ton and try and kite with no kiting tools. That lack of escapes compared to wod is huge. I wish they let us keep spectral guise or psychic horror. That 1 extra untility makes a huge difference to the spec. I guess they feel that our self healing is enough. And if it is then I need to adjust my game play so that I take advantage of what we are given and excel with it.

^ Providing feedback of what I experience. What I don't like on it and my opinion on how they can remedy it. This is how I do it. Others (not you) just basically say the class sucks hardbody without actually saying why they feel that or where they experienced it but follow the train. I can't take them seriously when they just say we suck at this and thats it because I'm experiencing something different.

[Theed]

In pvp our survivability toolkit is even more impressive. You have to know and predict exactly when you will need to use those abilities but thats the catch. You cant spam shield and think that is whats going to keep you alive but you do shirld when youre about to shell damage to gain the leech healing, which is op when done right. Like 10 - 100% health type shit. The only way to stop this absurd healing is to stun you because you have access to it every ~6s.

You are thinking too theoretical. In reality many melee will use their fire and forget stuns and interrupts on cd. I love arena so most of my feedback is competetive high rated arena related. You forget that our survivability/self heal can be dispelled, can be reduced or stopped (any cc/interrupt) or negated (AMS, Bubble, Spell reflect). Just wait for skirmish to be available again and see how "good" we are after the damage nerfs.

As you say the spec isnt unplayable. Nobody says it is unplayable. But it is too frustrating because we lack either escape utility or damage mitigation and in my opinion this should be fixed.

[RsinRC]

You are thinking too theoretical. In reality many melee will use their fire and forget stuns and interrupts on cd. I love arena so most of my feedback is competetive high rated arena related. You forget that our survivability/self heal can be dispelled, can be reduced or stopped (any cc/interrupt) or negated (AMS, Bubble, Spell reflect). Just wait for skirmish to be available again and see how "good" we are after the damage nerfs.

As you say the spec isnt unplayable. Nobody says it is unplayable. But it is too frustrating because we lack either escape utility or damage mitigation and in my opinion this should be fixed.

More than a handful are trying to say the spec is unplayable. Especially when it comes to aoe when it isnt what we're made for.

When has our abilities ever been undispellable though? In reality that's how it's always been but in top rated it really isn't fire or forget, its to push cd's from your opponent or cross cc chains. I usually eat through AMS if I have no other choice. But just like they can do stuff like that to us we can do to them and pretty good at it.

I already mentioned about escape utility as it is much stronger for legion's shadow than mitigation because of our self sustainability. I agree that it would make the class feel up to par with say mages and their escapes. I guess each class have their thing. It sucks a lot that we became this tanky self healing type of class rather than being an escape artist and have always said it. And it hasn't changed and has become much more of a wish.

In 2's we are gonna be shit and that's unfortunate.

[Mechonics]

What ? "why do we need an on demand mobility ?" Are you serious ? I don't even.

Tho I agree that it'd be nice for the mobility part not being tied to one of our "defensive" spell

That's my entire point.

I asked for a shield that we use half as much that shields for twice as much, and the ONLY complaint people have is "NO! Our Mobiilty!"

So the fact that our mobility spell is tied to our defensive is incorrect and that in general people are okay having to shield themselves every time PW:Shield is off CD is also mind boggling, my shield is 7s CD on my fresh 110 - that's a LOT of shielding out in the world.

Fire mage gameplay is literally spam Fireball, when it crits, use Inferno and Pyroblast.

The gameplay is: 1111123111112311111231111123.

To make things worse, things like survivability, mobility, CC and utility are next to no-existent or just very straigthfoward.

Fire mages have, respectively, Ice Barrier/Ice Block, Blink, Polymorph/Frost Nova/Counterspell, (and 0 utility).

The gameplay (DPS and non-DPS wise) is very scripted. The idea to play for 2 years spamming Fireballs and pressing Ice Barrier and Blink when necessary is scareful.

Both skill floor and ceiling are very low.

If I had to choose now, I would choose to play a shadowpriest rather than a fire mage without thinking about it more than half a second. Fire mages seems "fun" for a few hours/days, definetly not months/years.

Do you play shadow on live?

Mind Blast, Mind Flay, Mind Flay(clip), Mind Blast, Mind Spike, Mind Spike, Mind Spike, Mind Blast, Mind Spike, Mind Spike, Mind Spike, Mind Blast, Devouring Plague, Insanity, Mind Blast, Insanity, Mind Spike, Mind Spike.......

1223331333245153331333

Soooo, yeah - spriest must be super complicated on Beta. Hold on- Okay yeah it's basically the same rotation except you don't use Mind Spike, You DoT things every 15s and go into Void form instead of casting Devouring Plague. I'm failing to see how Shadow is more complicated than...any other class.

Don't get me wrong I love shadow priest, I mained it for this entire expansion up until the end of HFC when I COULDNT stomach spamming Mind Spike anymore. So yea I love shadow but I'm not blind to what they've become and will become if things don't change.

Additionally, as a fire mage you're all about combo'ing off and then doing a normal rotation. Every class is like that, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with your 11111223211111231 bullshit. Every class is like that, and when you're properly geared it's not spam 1 button for 10s waiting to crit. Also, fire can actually handle 3-20 mobs in the world whereas shadow...you have to run and shield every CD because you can't AoE, your DoT's do dick all for damage, your shield sucks, self healing is nerfed, you can't control mobs..

[Kilee25]

The current live gameplay is some of the most stressful gameplay I've experienced in WoW. If it seems easy at this point it's only because I've been doing it for almost a year. It's not the same at all as something like fire mage or marks hunter...

[Seneca]

That's my entire point.

I asked for a shield that we use half as much that shields for twice as much, and the ONLY complaint people have is "NO! Our Mobiilty!"

So the fact that our mobility spell is tied to our defensive is incorrect and that in general people are okay having to shield themselves every time PW:Shield is off CD is also mind boggling, my shield is 7s CD on my fresh 110 - that's a LOT of shielding out in the world.



Do you play shadow on live?

Mind Blast, Mind Flay, Mind Flay(clip), Mind Blast, Mind Spike, Mind Spike, Mind Spike, Mind Blast, Mind Spike, Mind Spike, Mind Spike, Mind Blast, Devouring Plague, Insanity, Mind Blast, Insanity, Mind Spike, Mind Spike.......

1223331333245153331333

Soooo, yeah - spriest must be super complicated on Beta. Hold on- Okay yeah it's basically the same rotation except you don't use Mind Spike, You DoT things every 15s and go into Void form instead of casting Devouring Plague. I'm failing to see how Shadow is more complicated than...any other class.

Uhm, most highly experienced spriests here say that shadow has to put 3x the efforts compared the other specs, so it seems you are alone here.

- First of all, let's pretend that what you say is right, you listed 5 spells, fire has 3. You know, almost 2x? 66% more? Choose the point of view.

- Secondly, fire has 3 but they are basically 2. It is Fireball spam and then Inferno Blast+Pyroblast when fireball crits. Pyroblast is always followed by Inferno Blast. They could as well as be the same spell, in a way.

- Thirdly, it's not necessarily about the numbers, but about the decision making required (skill floor/skill ceiling related).

By playing fire, no matter what happens, you do the same exact things. Even in AoE situations, the specs become 111124 rather than 111123 (instant Flamestrike rather than instant Pyroblast). Trinket procs? Nothing change. CDs are up? Nothing change. The target is going to die? Nothing change. There are 3 targets rather than 8? Nothing changes.

By playing shadow, you have to adapt to the situation. Should I refresh the Dots or is the target too low for it to be worth? Should I go in Voidform now or wait a few secs? (considering talents too) Is this a good moment to active Surrender to Madness? Etc.

Dunno but it feels so to me. Anyone more experienced can surely shed light about all of this.

Soooo, yeah - spriest must be super complicated on Beta.

Did I say it?

Hold on- Okay yeah it's basically the same rotation except you don't use Mind Spike, You DoT things every 15s and go into Void form instead of casting Devouring Plague. I'm failing to see how Shadow is more complicated than...any other class.

I mean compare this to Fireball spam...My little nephew could play it. he has to keep pressing 1 and when it sees bigger numbers/things enlightening he has to press 2-3.

I don't think he can play shadow though, he needs a few more years.

Don't get me wrong I love shadow priest, I mained it for this entire expansion up until the end of HFC when I COULDNT stomach spamming Mind Spike anymore. So yea I love shadow but I'm not blind to what they've become and will become if things don't change.

Mate if you think Legion shadow is easy don't dare to play Legion fire or you are going to get traumatized.

Additionally, as a fire mage you're all about combo'ing off and then doing a normal rotation.

Uhm, what? You have Fireball, Inferno Blast and Pyroblast. Inferno Blast is an auto crit. Instant Pyroblast procs when you crit 2 times in a row. So you spam Fireball, if it crits, you press Inferno Blast followed by Pyroblast.

Please enlight me, I must miss something crucial here.

Every class is like that, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with your 11111223211111231 bullshit.

Many specs have horrible rotations but some more than others.

Bullshit? Please enlight us about your secret fire gameplay, there's always something new to learn they say.

Every class is like that, and when you're properly geared it's not spam 1 button for 10s waiting to crit.

The point is not that casting 10 fireballs in a row is boring while casting 4 fireballs in a row is boring.

The point is that spamming 1 x times in a row followed by 2 and 3 is braindead level.

Also, fire can actually handle 3-20 mobs in the world whereas shadow...

What about this jump in logic? Weren't we talking about rotations?

Like, Mark is an asshole but he likes ice creams so he is fine? No idea what kind of counter argument yours is.

Anyway, let's all of a sudden talk about fire and shadow soloing capabilities when tanking a huge number of mobs:

Fire is good because numbers are unbalanced. The reason why fire can do what you say is Cauterizing Blink, an artifact trait which heals you for 50%+ of your health after 6 seconds.

The tooltip says a thing, the buff another, the effect another one. So it is all pretty messy. All we get fixed in future builds.

you have to run and shield every CD because you can't AoE, your DoT's do dick all for damage, your shield sucks, self healing is nerfed, you can't control mobs..

Funny how u say that spriest soloing capabilities suck, because the class which sucks more at soloing stuff is the mage one, by a huge margin. All 3 specs, arcane in particular, and the same was (probably will be) in Legion, atleast before Cauterizing Blink was messed up.

Try to solo stuff, in beta, with a shadow priest and then try with an arcane mage. Feel free to report your feedback here, but I guess I already know the answer.

[Mechonics]

Uhm, most highly experienced spriests here say that shadow has to put 3x the efforts compared the other specs, so it seems you are alone here.

Yeah, we do. That doesn't make it fun, it makes it a chore.

I'm too lazy to multi-quote you so here's the highlights:

1. Fire has just as many spells as Shadow, the thing about fire is that most of the time I kill things before they get to me. It has nothing to do with tuning - fire actually isn't overtuned right now. If they do get to me, I root them with nova, or I dragon's breath them. Get distance and kill them. I can do this with 1 mob, 5 mobs or 20. My artifact ability does AoE damage, my ignite jumps to nearby targets and playing with conflag only makes this easier. Pull 20 mobs, root them, combo on one of them and AoE them down without them touching you. It's quite a different experience and the challenge isn't "Should I reapply DoT's or go into void form", it's "How do I sequence my spells so I don't get touched, stay alive if I do, and kill everything while running". It's different, but much more satisfying killing 5 mobs at once in comparison to killing 1-3 and struggling.

2. You didn't specifically say that that spriest is "super complicated" but you implied multiple times in your posts that fire is like drinking water compared to fine wine. That's fine, and people have their own opinions, but I'm guessing you don't play this game at a high level on both of those classes.

3. This being better at solo'ing things is the best part because I've been doing world quests for the past few days and I dread going on my priest compared to my mage. Pop void form on one mob and it's dead before you can stack up to 15 lingering insanity. The 110 mobs jump in difficulty as well, they have 2x the HP as 109 mobs, they hit almost 2x as harder so basically you've doubled the difficulty and as it was spriest was struggling to face 3 mobs at the same time. Running around the world quest zones like the one near Shackle's Den in Aszuna where you aggro 2-3 Mobs at a time, you're basically f*cked. Whereas on my mage I don't even get touched.

And just so you know, I don't even use blink to heal in combat because I never have to - it's just there as an "Oh I just killed 5 mobs and I'm at 70%, might as well blink and mount just so I don't have to bother eating." ability.


At this point, considering your reply I'm assuming you're a troll or you don't have both Spriest/Mage at 110 and therefore I don't think discussing the comparison of Fire vs. Shadow with you. You're clearly inexperienced with both of them at max level in the beta content. As an aside, I ran into an arcane mage yesterday in Suramar and he was killing things faster than I was...like twice as fast. So I have no idea what you're actually talking about.

[snaxattax]

More than a handful are trying to say the spec is unplayable. Especially when it comes to aoe when it isnt what we're made for.

shadow's aoe has always been somewhat weak, but it's never been as bad as it was in WoD release, and right now in legion it is substantially worse. shadow's aoe and their damage return per gcd has actually never been this insane. all the mediocre/bads who are having a hard time right now with rowcop are going to be completely steamrolled by a sub 1 second gcd, and dot refreshes that are tied to voidbolt missilespeed.

you saying shadow's aoe is 'somewhat weak' is like saying rogue's ranged combat is 'somewhat weak' because they can still spec into shuriken toss.

[Isentropy]

And I'm sorry but that is COMPLETE and UTTER hyperbole (B u l l s h i t) to say that we are under tanks and you said that many times before. It doesn't help not 1 bit. The base spec on its own does not behave like a aoe class. Even then we have a few abilities and gear bonuses that will drastically help but the base spec of shadow isn't for aoe. Sucks to hear, see or play out if you ARE a fan of aoe but that is where they're heading with it. I'm not saying it's a good thing but that it is what it is and that it does/is working.

This is not hyperbole, all tanks are grossly overtuned in all aspects of the game at the moment, and they absolutely smash shadow in AoE while doing very respectable single target too. In dungeons they're about equal if not better than shadow (depending on the tank) in single target, assuming equal gear and skill. It's hard to say how this translates to raids, but obviously shadow benefits from significantly longer combat times - regardless, tank damage is way too high right now. That's just a fact. Balance is all over the place.

[RsinRC]

shadow's aoe has always been somewhat weak, but it's never been as bad as it was in WoD release, and right now in legion it is substantially worse. shadow's aoe and their damage return per gcd has actually never been this insane. all the mediocre/bads who are having a hard time right now with rowcop are going to be completely steamrolled by a sub 1 second gcd, and dot refreshes that are tied to voidbolt missilespeed.

you saying shadow's aoe is 'somewhat weak' is like saying rogue's ranged combat is 'somewhat weak' because they can still spec into shuriken toss.

It's funny that you say that yet shadow is def top 3 in legion.

- - - Updated - - -

This is not hyperbole, all tanks are grossly overtuned in all aspects of the game at the moment, and they absolutely smash shadow in AoE while doing very respectable single target too. In dungeons they're about equal if not better than shadow (depending on the tank) in single target, assuming equal gear and skill. It's hard to say how this translates to raids, but obviously shadow benefits from significantly longer combat times - regardless, tank damage is way too high right now. That's just a fact. Balance is all over the place.

Currently or in Legion? Cuz I haven't seen this in neither.

[Isentropy]

Obviously talking about Legion, and if you haven't seen that then you either haven't played recently or you're playing with the worst tanks in existence.

[RsinRC]

And it's getting old to explain that we aren't aoe based. Not a base shadow priest or a fully geared shadow priest. We excel at multi target fights. We all know this. In a raid you are 1 of many. Do your role and let others do theirs.

- - - Updated - - -

Obviously talking about Legion, and if you haven't seen that then you either haven't played recently or you're playing with the worst tanks in existence.

Wasn't obvious in your post since there wasn't anything making that clear. If it's that clearcut with tanks then its the first time i hear about it and I haven't experienced it. It is a tuning issue.

[Isentropy]

"It's hard to say how this translates to raids, but obviously shadow benefits from significantly longer combat times - regardless, tank damage is way too high right now. That's just a fact. Balance is all over the place."

This in particular is a pretty good hint that I'm not talking about live. Some more hints: you responded to Ilir who was talking about Legion, and I responded to that. We're also in a thread discussing shadow in Legion.

I'm not going to get myself involved in the argument otherwise, I'm just saying that dismissing that statement as hyperbole is not true because tanks are overtuned at the moment. Its irrelevant whether or not that gets changed in a future build, what's relevant is that right now tanks are doing way too much damage in all aspects of the game.

[RsinRC]

Nothing was said to make it clear that you was talking about legion. People claimed it about WoD and now in this page Legion. We are also in a thread that people talk about both live and Legion. It is hyperbole in the sense that from one person their relaying that we are under tanks. I have yet to experience it and this is the first I've heard from it.

[Seneca]

Yeah, we do. That doesn't make it fun, it makes it a chore.

You are contradicting yourself. Please let your mind find a compromise.

1. Fire has just as many spells as Shadow

If this is an attempt to mess with my mind, it is poor. You are contradicting yourself again. You wrote the opposite in your last post. Okay.

the thing about fire is that most of the time I kill things before they get to me

(the attempt continues?) Why are we talking about soloing capabilities? Sorry I might be dumber than usual but I don't get what the rotations of 2 specs have to do with soloing many mobs at once and the efficiency of the 2 specs.

It has nothing to do with tuning - fire actually isn't overtuned right now.

Yeah, the almost 60% HP heal on Blink is completely fine.

Tuning is not only about (raid, or general) DPS.

If they do get to me, I root them with nova, or I dragon's breath them. Get distance and kill them. I can do this with 1 mob, 5 mobs or 20.

I don't get what fire soloing beta capabilities have to do with everything said in this topic. Anyway, I am glad you are able to kill 20 mobs at the same time, because the majority of the mages which have beta and post on the mage subforum are way, way, less good than you. Shame on them (kappa).

My artifact ability does AoE damage, my ignite jumps to nearby targets and playing with conflag only makes this easier.

What's the point of listing spells and talents?

*insert random spec here* My artifact does x, my pet does y, my dots do z. Okay.

Pull 20 mobs, root them, combo on one of them and AoE them down without them touching you.

Do you mind sharing a video of that? Many people would be really interested to see it.

It's quite a different experience and the challenge isn't "Should I reapply DoT's or go into void form", it's "How do I sequence my spells so I don't get touched, stay alive if I do, and kill everything while running". It's different, but much more satisfying killing 5 mobs at once in comparison to killing 1-3 and struggling.

Okay you like fire mage soloing gameplay but doesn't like shadow priest soloing gameplay. Sounds fine.

2. You didn't specifically say that that spriest is "super complicated" but you implied multiple times in your posts that fire is like drinking water compared to fine wine.

Definetly implied (not really).

That's fine, and people have their own opinions, but I'm guessing you don't play this game at a high level on both of those classes.

The assumptions keep getting better. Please tell me what job I have and the name of my dog too while we are at it.

3. This being better at solo'ing things is the best part because I've been doing world quests for the past few days and I dread going on my priest compared to my mage. Pop void form on one mob and it's dead before you can stack up to 15 lingering insanity.

So you don't like the fact that mobs die too fast...

The 110 mobs jump in difficulty as well, they have 2x the HP as 109 mobs

...but you don't like when they have 2x the HP? No way I can find the solution to this riddle.

At this point, considering your reply

Whose 99% of it was carefully ignored by you (guess why)

I'm assuming you're a troll or you don't have both Spriest/Mage at 110 and therefore I don't think discussing the comparison of Fire vs. Shadow with you.

Well said, the issue here is that you actually answered to me one more time, why the need to answer 1 more time to a troll like me?

You're clearly inexperienced with both of them at max level in the beta content.

Clear as crystal, we might add.

As an aside, I ran into an arcane mage yesterday in Suramar and he was killing things faster than I was...like twice as fast. So I have no idea what you're actually talking about.

We were talking about killing many (20, as you say) mobs in a row, not about "who is better at killing 1 mob as fast as possible".

[l33t]

Nothing was said to make it clear that you was talking about legion. People claimed it about WoD and now in this page Legion. We are also in a thread that people talk about both live and Legion. It is hyperbole in the sense that from one person their relaying that we are under tanks. I have yet to experience it and this is the first I've heard from it.

Lol, do you even play in beta? How many shadow priests who actually play in beta do you need here to say that no matter what you do, tanks - currently in beta - will heavily own you in aoe situations? You remind me of a child with fingers in his ears, who do the "LALALA I DON'T HEAR YOU LALALA LALALA NO I DON'T GO AWAY BECAUSE I STILL DON'T HEAR YOU LALALA", something like that.

I wonder, if things are to remain like they currently are, will I be invited to mythic dungeon progression groups if I repeat the "I am okay guys, I just can't do aoe damage guys, I am okay!" mantra long enough?

Also: yay, 4k posts

[snaxattax]

It's funny that you say that yet shadow is def top 3 in legion.

this hasn't been the case since the initial tuning pushes. you have no basis for any comment you make, and the analysis you do on your comments are inane and useless.

- - - Updated - - -

Nothing was said to make it clear that you was talking about legion. People claimed it about WoD and now in this page Legion. We are also in a thread that people talk about both live and Legion. It is hyperbole in the sense that from one person their relaying that we are under tanks. I have yet to experience it and this is the first I've heard from it.

for aoe shadow is significantly below tanks right now in legion. we were below just about every tank in wod release, and it's actually significantly worse now.

[Djriff]

Wow this thread is busy today

Alright to address some points brought up.

Soloing

I've yet to run into any problems whatsoever when soloing. I've read plenty of priests complaining that they can't do any damage or constantly have to spam PW: S on themselves. These same priests are also saying (mostly) that they aren't kiting and are just expecting to face tank the mobs. I'm sorry but we're a dot class, dotting and running is kind of our thing. Not to mention you have a fear/stun if things get crazy. You have VE, PW: S, Dispersion, Shadowfiend/Mindbender + Fade, and everything in our artifact. I've had no problems personally pulling 3-4 mobs at once and nuking them all down.

Priests in general

Our strengths are there, i've done a handful of dungeons as shadow and I was quite happy with the performance. For content that we meet the gear for I think we're fine. Once we outgear the content we'll probably fall way behind, but honestly who cares? Our spec isn't about burst AoE, never has been either. Our ST damage is looking alright, and you can do some pretty insane (1-2m damage at lvl 100) burst with Void Torrent if you have Void Lord and a lot of stacks of Lingering Insanity. It gets pretty crazy.

We do have our problems, those have been listed out several times over the course of this thread and the official forums. People aren't just harping about it to just complain, they're complaining because the devs are being radio silent and haven't answered any of the questions that we've asked them.

Mod Note - While discussion about spec X to spec Y is fine, keep it civil. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them an asshole.

for aoe shadow is significantly below tanks right now in legion. we were below just about every tank in wod release, and it's actually significantly worse now.

What type of AoE are you talking about? 10+ targets in a quick burst? Sure, that's not our strength.
10+ targets alive for 20 seconds? Maybe
2-3 long lived targets? If that's the case we have some serious tuning issues then.