1. #5821
    Saw the movie Saturday and it doesn't really hype me anything for legion. Rather I wanna replay the old games Warcraft 1 and 2 to get recap on the lore.
    I did notice lots of flying in the movie tho. many spectacular views over mountains and ridges.

  2. #5822
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    1. Talent restriction requiring a safe zone.

    2. World quests being spread about is going to make a lot of players turned off.

    3. LFG raid gear is back with a vengeance and there is zero reason to "explore the world" because of this.

    Since artifact power is gained through any activity you can think of it kills the idea of world activity.
    You're forgetting scaled mobs dazing you ALL THE TIME. I'd rate that higher than anything else. At least in WoD I had stables and trash was lower level. Now it's 110 all the way and I swear they chase you longer then before (probably not). It's come to world quest in high trash density zone? Yeah fuck that, I'd rather sit in my class hall. And it's only been 3 weeks.
    Last edited by Goshko; 2016-05-30 at 02:34 PM.

  3. #5823
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Zalamander View Post
    I did notice lots of flying in the movie tho. many spectacular views over mountains and ridges.
    So you didn't see a lot of flying in the movie? Did you see it at all? I mean, maybe you missed the scene where King Llane said: "if you go there don't take the horse. It is to slow. Let me give you something faster" (or something like that). Most traveling by specific Characters is either porting or flying. :-D Not to speak of certain key-scenes....

    ;-)

  4. #5824
    Quote Originally Posted by Goshko View Post
    You're forgetting scaled mobs dazing you ALL THE TIME. I'd rate that higher than anything else. At least in WoD I had stables and trash was lower level. Now it's 110 all the way and I swear they chase you longer then before (probably not). It's come to world quest in high trash density zone? Yeah fuck that, I'd rather sit in my class hall. And it's only been 3 weeks.
    I didn't include dazing of mobs because most players will opt to sit in Dalaran waiting for raids/dungeons/bgs/arenas. But yeah dazing of mobs that are scaled up is a big downer towards player exploration as well.

  5. #5825
    Quote Originally Posted by Goshko View Post
    You're forgetting scaled mobs dazing you ALL THE TIME. I'd rate that higher than anything else. At least in WoD I had stables and trash was lower level. Now it's 110 all the way and I swear they chase you longer then before (probably not). It's come to world quest in high trash density zone? Yeah fuck that, I'd rather sit in my class hall. And it's only been 3 weeks.
    *DISCLAIMER* I am NOT sure about what I am about to ask. My goal here is to discuss que issue and put my doubts to rest. *END DISCLAIMER*

    Your mention about power scaling has awoken a doubt: AFAIK, gear level difference is severely "nerfed", so to speak. I believe I have read something about a fresh lvl 110 gear being only 10% weaker than a BIS geared player.

    On one hand, this is a good change as it will require a degree of skill from everyone.

    But on the other, won´t it discourage people from doing raids, pvp and the like, beyond the bare minimum?

    I have no idea about what to make of this.

    Thoughts?

  6. #5826
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by wing5wong View Post
    [SNIP] Instant portal direct to everything are one of the single WORST additions.
    Some convenience ports nearby, sure. but right to the door, or inside the instance with LFG, nope
    Do you know the travel system from GW2 or are you a troll? You don't get ported to any location. You get ported to one of the markers on your map, and you cannot even use some markers if they are contested by an event. Replace flight paths with a teleporter network, then you will have something similar. The density of such teleport markers would probably still be lower than in GW2, but at least we would not have the stupid flight paths anymore.

  7. #5827
    Quote Originally Posted by Connll View Post
    *DISCLAIMER* I am NOT sure about what I am about to ask. My goal here is to discuss que issue and put my doubts to rest. *END DISCLAIMER*

    Your mention about power scaling has awoken a doubt: AFAIK, gear level difference is severely "nerfed", so to speak. I believe I have read something about a fresh lvl 110 gear being only 10% weaker than a BIS geared player.

    On one hand, this is a good change as it will require a degree of skill from everyone.

    But on the other, won´t it discourage people from doing raids, pvp and the like, beyond the bare minimum?

    I have no idea about what to make of this.

    Thoughts?
    The thing is very VERY few people on the beta has anything even close to BIS gear. But I really doubt it's true as I've seen people solo group world quests in mostly heroic 5man gear with a few mythic pieces thrown in. I tried it in fresh 110 gear (~790) and got splattered.

  8. #5828
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by wing5wong View Post
    [SNIP] Its an RPG game. Theres more to it than teleport to content, teleport to content, teleport to content.
    Part of the experience is intended to be travel.
    Flying is a travel method which has total freedom, while flight paths are a travel method with zero freedom beside selecting your end destination. Freedom of movement is a cornerstone of an RPG. Without it, you are a mere spectator.

    What content is "trivialised" by flight? If anything, this is content which relies on being grounded. This is only 100% true for exploration activities and Jump & Run content. Anything else is not affected by flight as strong as no-flyers pretend it is. But let's say, we add questing into the mix. Why should achieving Loremaster not be enough then? Why extend the barrier to world quests, especially if questing is more trivialised by good gear than by flying?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zalamander View Post
    Saw the movie Saturday and it doesn't really hype me anything for legion. Rather I wanna replay the old games Warcraft 1 and 2 to get recap on the lore.
    I did notice lots of flying in the movie tho. many spectacular views over mountains and ridges.
    Yeah, and the griffins / riders freely chose where to fly. Not hopping on and off a flight path, then going miles and miles by horse. You want to go to Karazhan? Then land right before the tower.

  9. #5829
    Quote Originally Posted by Goshko View Post
    The thing is very VERY few people on the beta has anything even close to BIS gear. But I really doubt it's true as I've seen people solo group world quests in mostly heroic 5man gear with a few mythic pieces thrown in. I tried it in fresh 110 gear (~790) and got splattered.
    How often has opening level gear been a good measure of anything, though? It won't be until people start getting raid tier sets, and mythic or challenge gear drops that the real measure of difficulty will be made. There's probably a little bit of balancing left to do on classes before launch as well. And bug fixes.

    I think what most people are probably experiencing is the simply inability to faceroll anymore. Actually having to pay attention is a thing now, and people will have to get used to it instead of calling for nerfs because they can't pull 20 mobs in quest gear.

    But no matter how you look at it, flying isn't going to impact that. You still have to land and deal with the objectives of the quest. Forcing people to fight their way through a bunch of trash mobs that don't have anything to do with the objective isn't good design, and won't add to the enjoyment in the slightest. It just adds tedium. Artificially extending the time needed to get the job done by filling it with garbage is not the most amazing thing ever.
    Last edited by SirCowdog; 2016-05-30 at 06:54 PM.

  10. #5830
    Quote Originally Posted by Goshko View Post
    The thing is very VERY few people on the beta has anything even close to BIS gear. But I really doubt it's true as I've seen people solo group world quests in mostly heroic 5man gear with a few mythic pieces thrown in. I tried it in fresh 110 gear (~790) and got splattered.
    So you are essentially saying that riding past a pack of mobs while on your way to your quest objective faster is tantamount to suicide?

  11. #5831
    Quote Originally Posted by scubistacy View Post
    Do you know the travel system from GW2 or are you a troll? You don't get ported to any location. You get ported to one of the markers on your map, and you cannot even use some markers if they are contested by an event. Replace flight paths with a teleporter network, then you will have something similar. The density of such teleport markers would probably still be lower than in GW2, but at least we would not have the stupid flight paths anymore.
    Im not talking about GW2?
    I literally said a teleport system that put you near locations (aka flight paths) is a good system

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by scubistacy View Post
    Flying is a travel method which has total freedom, while flight paths are a travel method with zero freedom beside selecting your end destination. Freedom of movement is a cornerstone of an RPG. Without it, you are a mere spectator.
    Lack of flying is not restriction of movement in that huge of a regard. you cant fly to the top of the mountain, but yuou are free to roam regardless of flight

  12. #5832
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    flight paths are not teleports doe
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2024 - that's two-zero-two-four, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of still-masked clots ridden infertile senile sissies who want the Last Ukrainian to die so they can get on with the War on China, with some middle-eastern genocide on the side

  13. #5833
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    2. World quests being spread about is going to make a lot of players turned off.
    Really?
    having to go into the world to do quests is a turn off? damn.... Load up farmville if thats the case

    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    flight paths are not teleports doe
    K

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goshko View Post
    You're forgetting scaled mobs dazing you ALL THE TIME. I'd rate that higher than anything else. At least in WoD I had stables and trash was lower level. Now it's 110 all the way and I swear they chase you longer then before (probably not). It's come to world quest in high trash density zone? Yeah fuck that, I'd rather sit in my class hall. And it's only been 3 weeks.
    You dont get dazed if you dont get hit in the back.
    Just run at an angle or learn to 180 past them and back as you run past

  14. #5834
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    having to walk to world quests is a turn off
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2024 - that's two-zero-two-four, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of still-masked clots ridden infertile senile sissies who want the Last Ukrainian to die so they can get on with the War on China, with some middle-eastern genocide on the side

  15. #5835
    Quote Originally Posted by Connll View Post
    *DISCLAIMER* I am NOT sure about what I am about to ask. My goal here is to discuss que issue and put my doubts to rest. *END DISCLAIMER*

    Your mention about power scaling has awoken a doubt: AFAIK, gear level difference is severely "nerfed", so to speak. I believe I have read something about a fresh lvl 110 gear being only 10% weaker than a BIS geared player.

    On one hand, this is a good change as it will require a degree of skill from everyone.

    But on the other, won´t it discourage people from doing raids, pvp and the like, beyond the bare minimum?

    I have no idea about what to make of this.

    Thoughts?
    PvP gear is scaled in pvp instances, to .1% per item level in difference, so the game is largely skill related. There is a tiny (max 10%)) stat difference between full and no gear.
    In the open world, there is no scaling or disabling of legendaries.

    Its a good system


    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    having to walk to world quests is a turn off
    Having to play the game sucks i know. The world quests are literally <1 min away from FPs

  16. #5836
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    it's not a walking simulator, so tone down the "playing" bit. I want to do a world quest, to play the game, I don't want to walk to it - i.e. waste time not playing the game.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2024 - that's two-zero-two-four, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of still-masked clots ridden infertile senile sissies who want the Last Ukrainian to die so they can get on with the War on China, with some middle-eastern genocide on the side

  17. #5837
    Quote Originally Posted by scubistacy View Post
    Flying is a travel method which has total freedom, while flight paths are a travel method with zero freedom beside selecting your end destination. Freedom of movement is a cornerstone of an RPG. Without it, you are a mere spectator.

    What content is "trivialised" by flight? If anything, this is content which relies on being grounded. This is only 100% true for exploration activities and Jump & Run content. Anything else is not affected by flight as strong as no-flyers pretend it is. But let's say, we add questing into the mix. Why should achieving Loremaster not be enough then? Why extend the barrier to world quests, especially if questing is more trivialised by good gear than by flying?

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    Yeah, and the griffins / riders freely chose where to fly. Not hopping on and off a flight path, then going miles and miles by horse. You want to go to Karazhan? Then land right before the tower.
    IRL i ride a gryphon too because i saw it in a movie.
    Come on, let be real here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    it's not a walking simulator, so tone down the "playing" bit. I want to do a world quest, to play the game, I don't want to walk to it - i.e. waste time not playing the game.
    Go play farmville then. If you actually want to remove walking from a game you have to be fucking trolling.

  18. #5838
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Farmville is so current expansion. Don't want to play it again. Thank you very much.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2024 - that's two-zero-two-four, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of still-masked clots ridden infertile senile sissies who want the Last Ukrainian to die so they can get on with the War on China, with some middle-eastern genocide on the side

  19. #5839

  20. #5840
    Quote Originally Posted by wing5wong View Post
    Which flying content - outside of flying to the zone?
    The netherwing and cloud serpant races, the flying rares and the camel mount, the flying islands with easter eggs, the sides of mountains with easter eggs, the multi leveled zones like Icecrown, Storm peaks, OL Nagrand, Deepholm, the flying warships as quest hubs, the dungeon and multiple raid encounters with flying, the invasion patch and its anti flight mechanics, in fact any max level open world content in any expansion prior to WoD had to at least consider flight in how that content was designed. But I guess all that content was skipped, right, seeing as we just flew over it all....


    Quote Originally Posted by wing5wong View Post
    Ive done the content, it hasnt been skipped. Flying was useful sure, but definitely not required. Am i missing some key aspect you're trying to point out here?
    Im not anti having flying in the game, ive never said that. Content that depends on using your flyer is alright in small quantities (netherwing races), but developing flying content as a core component, i dont agree with.
    The point is flying was obviously not a detriment to the game, but another avenue of enjoying it. No one is saying "make WoW a flight sim", most are simply asking for what was the norm for 8 of the games 11 years.


    Quote Originally Posted by wing5wong View Post
    You fly nearby the content and then you travel to the content, so no, its not the same. If flight paths were replaced by teleporters to the exact same locations, no problem.
    Those glorified loading screen flight paths/ports are way better at skipping content than free flying is. I can engage with the world between my take off point and destination anytime I want with free flying. With the other option, I am removed from the world for 90-100% of the entire distance I am travelling.


    Quote Originally Posted by wing5wong View Post
    What? You mean organising a mage, or a small group with a warlock? Must be missing your point here.
    What is your issue with flight? Flying is a form of travel that keeps you in the world, summons or portals remove the player from the world for that travel.


    Quote Originally Posted by wing5wong View Post
    I enjoyed WoD content. The quest zones felt complete, and flowed well. How is that a problem?
    Again, no one is talking about flying while leveling. This is predominantly about flying at max level.
    (Personally, I thought the questing experience in WoD was a railroading, hand holding snooze fest that didn't allow for any deviation from the set course and in fact punished you if you did.)



    Quote Originally Posted by wing5wong View Post
    If mount speed was doubled or tripled and could jump as high as needed to get to the "flying" quest hubs, would you be happy?
    Why go to that effort, and not just include flying like Blizz were more than capable of doing for the vast majority of the games life?
    Last edited by CheeseSandwich; 2016-05-30 at 10:00 PM.
    "These so called speed humps are a joke. If anything, they slow you down. "

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