The Disturbing Truth About How Airplanes Are Maintained Today.

[Cyi]

I am wondering. Are manuals really made by Airlines or actually by companies which make Airplanes like Boeing, Airbus or Bombardier? And if everything is only in English then how can someone outside English speaking regions able to operate those airplanes?

They are made by the manufacturer, hence why they have copies in virtually every language. To add to my other statements, almost half of all the airplanes flying are made by Airbus, a conglomerate of manufacturers from all over Europe with only one having English as the primary language. If you hold onto the argument that because they are not US based repair facilities then the US should do no work on foreign aircraft.

Everyone just rest easy, it is in the airlines best interest to keep you safe and accident free. If the risk was so high that an accident was even remotely possible due to these repair facilities they would simply not use them.

[Deleted]

As a commercial pilot myself and someone who flies for a living, there is no basis for concern simply because work is being done in other countries. Remember that the US isn't the sole purchaser of said aircraft so it would be obvious that work is done on aircraft all over the world.

The inability of the FAA to inspect is however.

[Cyi]

The inability of the FAA to inspect is however.

Yeah, assuming the FAA or a registered agent for the FAA isn't assigned to these facilities. The simple truth of the matter is that this system works. You are not seeing planes fall out of the sky due to poor maintenance.

[Orlong]

It really shows the massive discrepancy in labor costs when they can move an entire plane out of the country rather than fix it here. That can't be cheap.

Yep, and the greedier those airline unions get the more its going to happen too

[Arganis]

You write too well for MMO Champion. Your time is wasted here. Also, I wasn't disturbed lol, and that despite the lengthy setup for what is essentially a 'dey tuk our jerbs' conclusion.

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Yep, and the greedier those airline unions get the more its going to happen too

Right, cause the airline companies are really struggling to make a profit, give me a break.

[Stacyrect]

sending stuff abroad to be built or repaired is nothing new its so businesses can save money this has been happening for decades

Very true, but airplanes are very sophisticated shit where if one thing goes wrong, everything can go very wrong ,very quick. Not only does this touch on outsourcing but if you read what mechanics write on repair invoices in response to pilot complaints you are probably going to laugh but after thinking about it never travel by plane again.

[Garnier Fructis]

Yeah, assuming the FAA or a registered agent for the FAA isn't assigned to these facilities. The simple truth of the matter is that this system works. You are not seeing planes fall out of the sky due to poor maintenance.

Yes we are. As recently as the period 2002-2011, the primary factor in ~3% of fatal accidents worldwide was maintenance, according to the CAA. This isn't counting the accidents where maintenance was a factor but not the most important one.

Accidents on the whole are going down both in raw number and as a fraction of total flights. The system works, but that doesn't mean it can't be made better.

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+1 for writing skills.
Seriously, I'm not being sarcastic. Phrasing and word usage in your post was really good!

But it's also incredibly sad that this is what they do.

You write too well for MMO Champion. Your time is wasted here. Also, I wasn't disturbed lol, and that despite the lengthy setup for what is essentially a 'dey tuk our jerbs' conclusion.

He's not a master writer; he copied the article he posted.

[Arganis]

He's not a master writer; he copied the article he posted.

Awwwww, here I was thinking somebody on this website had talent.

[Garnier Fructis]

Awwwww, here I was thinking somebody on this website had talent.

Skroe's writing is pretty good.

[Cyi]

Very true, but airplanes are very sophisticated shit where if one thing goes wrong, everything can go very wrong ,very quick. Not only does this touch on outsourcing but if you read what mechanics write on repair invoices in response to pilot complaints you are probably going to laugh but after thinking about it never travel by plane again.

Believe me, I know better then most, as I fly for a living. As for one things goes wrong everything can go wrong, well I tend to disagree at least in terms of maintenance. I would agree with more if you had been talking about pilot error. The systems are so redundant that if one thing goes wrong, often there are three other things that will work just as well to take its place.

Even the engines, believe it or not are rated to be able to take off, should one engine failure occur after the specific rotation speed and continue to climb out. These systems are overly safe.

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Yes we are. As recently as the period 2002-2011, the primary factor in ~3% of fatal accidents worldwide was maintenance, according to the CAA. This isn't counting the accidents where maintenance was a factor but not the most important one.

Accidents on the whole are going down both in raw number and as a fraction of total flights. The system works, but that doesn't mean it can't be made better.

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He's not a master writer; he copied the article he posted.

What category and class did those fatal accidents occur in? We are talking about large, commercial operators here. Often when you read stats on aircraft accidents they often include small single engine aircraft which are another beast altogether and shouldn't be included in this discussion. Also, mechanical error doesn't specify if it was something the mechanic did wrong or simply a faulty system. While I see what point you are trying to make, I don't think the data you specify supports it once you break down all the factors.

[Vash The Stampede]

Wrong Thread.

[Stacyrect]

Believe me, I know better then most, as I fly for a living.

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What category and class did those fatal accidents occur in? We are talking about large, commercial operators here. Often when you read stats on aircraft accidents they often include small single engine aircraft which are another beast altogether and shouldn't be included in this discussion.

Aside from the jet turbines, the electronics alone on aircraft is extremely technical. Their are at least a hundred different companies that produce civil commercial aircraft. A tomato is a tomato and I can appreciate mechanical intuition and insight but having people who may or may not specialize in EXACTLY that aircraft seems like a huge fucking mistake and a extremely large risk given language differences. This just reinforces my cheapness is never traveling by plane, always by train or boat lol.

[Cyi]

Aside from the jet turbines, the electronics alone on aircraft is extremely technical. Their are at least a hundred different companies that produce civil commercial aircraft. A tomato is a tomato and I can appreciate mechanical intuition and insight but having people who may or may not specialize in EXACTLY that aircraft seems like a huge fucking mistake and a extremely large risk given language differences. This just reinforces my cheapness is never traveling by plane, always by train or boat lol.

Well the electronics, actually, are made by a select few companies and most aircraft flying use the same stuff. Understand that this is often a mandate of the FAA or insurance companies. When you really break down the airliners that are in service, you can see that they are primarily of a few types. The Boeing 737 and Airbus A320 make up the vast number so their systems will be "similar" between each aircraft the fleet has.

One other thing to point out is that manufacturers often require that technicians working on the aircraft attend the companies maintenance course, that goes above and beyond what they are certified for. This would hold true worldwide as Boeing doesn't want some mouth breather to be working on a 747 out of a shed in the middle of central America. At the very least they are overseen by these people.

Lastly, the companies doing the repair are in this business to make money and they don't make money if they are causing aircraft to fall out of the sky. This is BIG BIG money and they will protect it.

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Take a look at the company that the article mentions. It is pretty damn impressive if you ask me. Their latest hanger holds 5 Jumbo jets side by side. This is not some fly by night company and to be honest, I see zero issue with doing this other then I would rather employ my fellow citizens.

http://www.aeroman.com.sv/?lang=en

[Garnier Fructis]

What category and class did those fatal accidents occur in? We are talking about large, commercial operators here. Often when you read stats on aircraft accidents they often include small single engine aircraft which are another beast altogether and shouldn't be included in this discussion. Also, mechanical error doesn't specify if it was something the mechanic did wrong or simply a faulty system. While I see what point you are trying to make, I don't think the data you specify supports it once you break down all the factors.

Aircraft weighing over 5,700 kg. Which excludes Cessnas and small single engine aircraft in general. Over half of these were commercial flights, around a third were cargo flights and the rest were ferry or positioning flights.

http://www.skybrary.aero/bookshelf/books/2403.pdf
The appendix has the specific breakdown of aircraft types included.

[Cyi]

Aircraft weighing over 5,700 kg. Which excludes Cessnas and small single engine aircraft in general. Over half of these were commercial flights, around a third were cargo flights and the rest were ferry or positioning flights.

http://www.skybrary.aero/bookshelf/books/2403.pdf
The appendix has the specific breakdown of aircraft types included.

That was a great article and if taking it at face value for accuracy, you are correct in the 3%. I still don't feel like that is a just reason to raise any doubt over the safety of these companies overseas doing the work. In fact, given we are talking about commercial airliners in this discussion, if you read further on, the "Jet" category only lists maintenance error at about 1%.

I would like to add that I understand there are turbo prop aircraft in the fleets of airlines but they don't have the range, typically, to fly all the way to South America for repair and therefore are most likely repaired here in the states.

[Kapadons]

Google research shows the largest factor in commercial crashes is pilot error, not mechanical failure.

[Garnier Fructis]

Google research shows the largest factor in commercial crashes is pilot error, not mechanical failure.

Point being?

[TirielWoW]

I like how you make the assumption that the repair shops in El Salvador,China and Mexico are all dogshit because "may not be able to read or speak English." Why do you think these repair shops are better or worse than American ones.

Also, any plane going to China for repair will have to be flown there and flown back before it can be used for domestic flights. seems the plane must be working before being used.

If you can't even read the manuals for the plane you're trying to repair, how can you hope to properly repair it?

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A plane is inspected every time it takes off ...

And if the people who are doing the inspections are being punished by the airlines for discovering slipshod repair work, exactly how effective do you think those inspections will be?

[Cyi]

If you can't even read the manuals for the plane you're trying to repair, how can you hope to properly repair it?

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And if the people who are doing the inspections are being punished by the airlines for discovering slipshod repair work, exactly how effective do you think those inspections will be?

Go back and read some of our conversation on page three. There is no reason that the repair facility can't have a manual in their native language. These planes are sold to virtually every country on the planet, do you really suggest that they only have them in English? Who exactly is getting punished for reporting a problem? You do realize that the systems on these aircraft perform self checks correct? Cant really punish a computer.

Read the back and forth on page 3 and you will be more enlightened to this story.

[MasterOfNone]

Sigh. The things people worry about when they have no fucking clue what they are talking about.