Hanamura, Volskaya and maybe Anubis.

[Woobels]

As we all know, these maps are currently despised by most communities and not played in any of the grassroot tournaments that have been held, both in the beta and since release.

A strawpoll in a Discord I'm in with about 500 people (small sample size) showed that about 80% think the maps are poorly designed.

I'd actually be SUPER interested in some statistics to show what the win percentage on Hanamura Attack is for example.


Assuming these maps are poorly designed, what do you think needs to be changed to make attacking on these maps less difficult?

Please no Blizzdrone 'every map is fine this game is perfect' comments, there's a reason these maps come up in discussion quite often.

[Mormolyce]

They're just noob traps, give it time for people to get better at the game. Like, three months or so.

[Adoxe]

They're fine as is.

[Woobels]

They're fine as is.

So why are they literally never picked in scrims/any sort of competitive thing that's going on?

I have people leaving them too when on attack.

I feel they also make the hero imbalance worse because they Hanamura basically makes Lucio mandatory for example (Though he is on every map, but more so on that one.)

I really want to see numbers on victories on defense or attack, is there some website that can provide percentages?

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Hanamura is one of my most favorite maps.

Volskaya is nice, but too flat.

Anubis' only flaw IMO is the single entrypoint at the start of the match.

[Wondercrab]

Those are like my favourite maps.

[BananaHandsB]

In beta, the win % on both offense and defense seemed about equal. They were pretty observant about watching win rates and making adjustments. I'm guessing, if there is a disparity, we're seeing the result of people not knowing the maps and heroes too well yet and exacerbating any minor imbalances or using strategies that really only work against a group of uninformed players. I imagine, if there is a disparity, it will start to align more with beta numbers as time goes on, and if it doesn't I'm sure they'll make adjustments. Here's an example of adjustments they made during beta:

Route 66

Slowed the payload by 10%
Adjusted placement of the health packs across the map


Developer Comments: We've noticed that attackers are winning more often than we'd like on Route 66, so we've made some adjustments to the payload speed and health pack placement to try to bring the attacker win rate more in line with our other escort maps.

Volskaya Industries

Moved initial spawn points to further back


Developer Comments: We're also seeing attackers win more often than we'd like on Volskaya Industries, so we've pushed spawn points back a little bit in the library to help defenders hold objective A.

Source: http://us.battle.net/forums/en/overw...ic/20743424148

And, of course, the 2-point and payload maps are going to be harder to balance than the central capture point maps. That will always be the case, and super-competitive players will always prefer them as there is no "map excuse" players can make (valid or not) when the map is virtually a mirror of itself for both sides. When people lose, they virtually always blame the map if they can, or imba heroes, or lag, anything but themselves. Central objective points basically take this out of the equation. Even if the other maps are quite balanced, one can always argue (or claim) that they're not, unless the map is essentially mirror image of itself and both sides have the same role/goal, and that's imo the effect you're seeing.

[Deleted]

Nope, I think those maps are fine as they are now. The game is pretty new and a lot of players are still learning the game, give it time and the results might be good.

[Woobels]

I should add I think Hanamura and Volskaya are really cool maps visually, I love the big robotsm but as of right now I feel defense definitely has too much of an edge on Hanamura especially, partly the point is so close to spawn that Mercy actually res most of that 'corridor' without actually having to leave the saferoom in some cases.

But I really, really prefer maps like Nepal, King's Row and Numbani for gameplay.

[Boogums]

So why are they literally never picked in scrims/any sort of competitive thing that's going on?

I have people leaving them too when on attack.

I feel they also make the hero imbalance worse because they Hanamura basically makes Lucio mandatory for example (Though he is on every map, but more so on that one.)

I really want to see numbers on victories on defense or attack, is there some website that can provide percentages?

Because people are fucking stupid and would rather quit than improve themselves.

[Woobels]

Because people are fucking stupid and would rather quit than improve themselves.

I'm just curious why the maps aren't played in any of the competitive footage I've seen.

I ASSUME Blizzard will enable them for ranked so surely they must want to practice it?

Legit just want to know why they are not being played.

[Boogums]

I'm just curious why the maps aren't played in any of the competitive footage I've seen.

I ASSUME Blizzard will enable them for ranked so surely they must want to practice it?

Legit just want to know why they are not being played.

Who knows? Ask them. I'll stick with the first part of my original answer.

[Sylreick]

People are unfamiliar with group play and how to get by choke points (perhaps lacking knowledge of the characters that excel in those spots, too). In true competitive play, I think these maps will be incredible.

It only gets to be an aggravating experience in solo-queue quick plays, but that comes down to lacking teamwork and poor hero selection.

[Deleted]

hanamura could be rebalanced a LITTLE in my opinion, ive yet to get more than a win or two on that map and i try my hardest to flank with genji to deal with the backline, or play lucio to provide some form of pushing power, but usually it just ends up with a mercy ressing everyone from spawn.

[Charge me Doctor]

I'm just curious why the maps aren't played in any of the competitive footage I've seen.

I ASSUME Blizzard will enable them for ranked so surely they must want to practice it?

Legit just want to know why they are not being played.

Are you curious why KTV Foxtrot Labs was almost always banned against zerg? Because these maps are hard to play on against zerg because of very short rush distance.

These maps aren't played in competitive footage (kek), probably because players can't adapt to them or come up with a strategy that will favor them more than opposing team. And this "maps aren't played" is just mind boggling, players do get to pick what maps they are going to play on, or do they ban unfavorable maps?

[Deleted]

So people don't like A B maps? They've got tricks to them. Sure, Hanamura is a bitch, and can never be won if the teams are equal constantly; it'd take a complete lapse from the defending team to lose the B point, but as long as there's no wipeout, the attacking team can't take it. Still, it's a fun map.

The A B maps can potentially be like 2 minute wins, whereas the payload maps are like 5-10 minutes almost always.

[Woobels]

Are you curious why KTV Foxtrot Labs was almost always banned against zerg? Because these maps are hard to play on against zerg because of very short rush distance.

These maps aren't played in competitive footage (kek), probably because players can't adapt to them or come up with a strategy that will favor them more than opposing team. And this "maps aren't played" is just mind boggling, players do get to pick what maps they are going to play on, or do they ban unfavorable maps?

I think maps go in an order currently, I'm just saying that in what must be like 8 hours of footage in the Dolby Esports tournament Volskaya, Hanamura and Anubis never showed up once.

Nearly all gameplay was done on Hollywood/Numbani/Kings Row iirc.

Could be like Melee where you strike maps but I doubt it?

- - - Updated - - -

So people don't like A B maps? They've got tricks to them. Sure, Hanamura is a bitch, and can never be won if the teams are equal constantly; it'd take a complete lapse from the defending team to lose the B point, but as long as there's no wipeout, the attacking team can't take it. Still, it's a fun map.

The A B maps can potentially be like 2 minute wins, whereas the payload maps are like 5-10 minutes almost always.

One of my issues with Hanamura is that a Mercy can prevent a full wipeout incredibly easily because of how safely she can hide at spawn.

[ChampionChains]

These are some of my favorite maps. From my experience, these maps go poorly when you're playing with people who don't understand that Overwatch is a game where you need to pick your class depending on the map/game mode currently being played and often need to switch characters during matches. I've run into a lot of people in PUGs who refuse to change characters to suit the needs of the team or objective because they "main" bastion or mei or whoever. Hanamura attack, for example, is easy to get point A by simply having a tracer, genji, pharrah and other mobile attackers on your team. Your comp usually needs to change after capping point A because point B doesn't work well with the same strategy.

These maps will be less of a problem once people realize Overwatch isn't team fortress or other games where you pick one class and stick with it.

[xChurch]

The trick is to have a fast char rush behind their lines to the point so they all start to peel back giving your team an opening, Volskaya is especially good for this.

[Woobels]

The trick is to have a fast char rush behind their lines to the point so they all start to peel back giving your team an opening, Volskaya is especially good for this.

Sadly there is no line to get behind on Hanamura.

I don't have issues with any point A's btw, though I think some form of entry besides the main gate would be good on Hanamura(for characters that can't get a lot of vertical height) and Anubis.

- - - Updated - - -

The tournaments this weekend had the teams banning maps before their matches until only the few needed to play the match out were left.

That's interesting, thank you for clearing that up.