Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Gadzooks]

Really? They had the Legacy server with the least bugs / most acurate emulation of Vanilla WoW. It still had shitoads of bugs / broken quests, it just had less then the others. That is literally the only button they really had to push. Coincidentally, that is also pretty much completely meaningless if Blizzard has all of their old source code for Vanilla, since that means that blizzard has pretty much nothing at all to learn from them in regards to geting a Vanilla server up and running because they could literally start one that was 100% Vanilla any time they wanted to (ignoring the fact that it would be completely incompatable with their current server harware and all of their software infrastructure of ccourse).

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And ALL OF US have, in reality, absolutely NO FREAKING CLUE what Blizzard actually wants to talk to the Nost team about. Yet you guys are convinced that somehow nost is going to give Blizzard magical insight into running Vanilla servers that the bloody people who BUILT THE GAME somehow havent already figured out on their own......... it's mind boggling really.

At least I actually attempt to provide plausible reasoning as to why the Nost team isnt really going to contribute anything meaningful, if anything at all. But you just stick your fingers in your ear and go "lalalalalala, Nost Devs know! We have no idea what they know, but they KNOW! And blizzard knows they know! Thats why Blizzard is so desperate to talk to them". If you had anything even remotely approaching a reasoned arguement we might take you seriously, but all you have is "they kno1!!" and nothing else at all.

I've been poking that lame meme for weeks, maybe you'll get more accomplished, lol. I called it for the Kern meeting, and the same for the Nost meeting - neither party has any info that Blizzard needs to make the decision to make legacy servers. It's common sense. And, like Kern said, this is the beginning for Blizzard, they're just starting to listen, they have a ways to go before making any decisions. I've seen the same comments, about "having faith" in Nost, that they're so "sure" that this is the last hurdle - they said the same nonsense about Kern's meeting, and look where that got them.

But, I'll call it now - they'll ignore, harass, report, demonize and lie about you, just like they did to me. I hope you find it as entertaining as I do - otherwise, you're going to be very irritated in the coming days before the Nost meeting.

But make sure you come back right after the Nost meeting, when nothing of substance is announced, and post your earned "Told ya" post.

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Because the vast majority of the wow player base never ever experienced vanilla at the time to me is new content. It is less, well insanely less complicated than legion mechanics, but way more time consuming. This is their fear. People will get so bogged down by vanilla content once they start the population of live realms will go down causing more mergers and when they return to live either hating it and quiting or bogging down the servers. I won't ever return to live since I was able to see all the boss mills in a month of LFR on live but I would drudge into vanilla for months

Okay, fair points. But what if Blizzard wants all parts of the game populated and active? What if they can make 1-100 just as meaningful as playing 100-110? What if they're okay is some players - not all - spend their time in older content, rather than in the new? And they used the scaling tech so you can go into vanilla raids, instead of Legion (or whatever is current if they ever do this), and still have fun? What if - and this is a stretch and pure conjecture on my part - remove player levels, and progression is simply done via content? Like, to get to TBC raids, you have to do vanilla raids, instead of going in at level 100 and one-shotting everything? They have the tech to do that now. You know what you'd get with that? A HUGE pool of raiders who are improving and moving forward and will eventually reach the current raid level - and can be recruited.

I think Blizzard is looking further than just duct-taping a copy of vanilla onto all the servers. At least I hope they are, because it would make more sense than tacking a copy of vanilla on, or making a separate version of the game. Maybe this is the start of WoW 2.0.

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And eventually all the ignorant 2012 players will try vanilla and realize... wow for the first time i can actually have friends because there is no crossrealm and the server has an actual community... i'll quit legion!

Real question - would removing cross-realm improve the existing game?

[Trunksee]

I've been poking that lame meme for weeks, maybe you'll get more accomplished, lol. I called it for the Kern meeting, and the same for the Nost meeting - neither party has any info that Blizzard needs to make the decision to make legacy servers. It's common sense. And, like Kern said, this is the beginning for Blizzard, they're just starting to listen, they have a ways to go before making any decisions. I've seen the same comments, about "having faith" in Nost, that they're so "sure" that this is the last hurdle - they said the same nonsense about Kern's meeting, and look where that got them.

But, I'll call it now - they'll ignore, harass, report, demonize and lie about you, just like they did to me. I hope you find it as entertaining as I do - otherwise, you're going to be very irritated in the coming days before the Nost meeting.

But make sure you come back right after the Nost meeting, when nothing of substance is announced, and post your earned "Told ya" post.

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Okay, fair points. But what if Blizzard wants all parts of the game populated and active? What if they can make 1-100 just as meaningful as playing 100-110? What if they're okay is some players - not all - spend their time in older content, rather than in the new? And they used the scaling tech so you can go into vanilla raids, instead of Legion (or whatever is current if they ever do this), and still have fun? What if - and this is a stretch and pure conjecture on my part - remove player levels, and progression is simply done via content? Like, to get to TBC raids, you have to do vanilla raids, instead of going in at level 100 and one-shotting everything? They have the tech to do that now. You know what you'd get with that? A HUGE pool of raiders who are improving and moving forward and will eventually reach the current raid level - and can be recruited.

I think Blizzard is looking further than just duct-taping a copy of vanilla onto all the servers. At least I hope they are, because it would make more sense than tacking a copy of vanilla on, or making a separate version of the game. Maybe this is the start of WoW 2.0.

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Real question - would removing cross-realm improve the existing game?

Here's the problem with making things better in active wow. How do you bring back the old talent trees? How do you eliminate cross realm? How do you take away all the antisocial aspects of the current version to make us old timers happy keeping this antisocial generation of wow happy. How do you bring back the old continent pre cata?
You make legacy servers and milk us for our cash that's how. It's simple they gave the casuals what they wanted it's time to pay the guys and gals that made the game mainstream back.

[Vineri]

And ALL OF US have, in reality, absolutely NO FREAKING CLUE what Blizzard actually wants to talk to the Nost team about. Yet you guys are convinced that somehow nost is going to give Blizzard magical insight into running Vanilla servers that the bloody people who BUILT THE GAME somehow havent already figured out on their own......... it's mind boggling really.

At least I actually attempt to provide plausible reasoning as to why the Nost team isnt really going to contribute anything meaningful, if anything at all. But you just stick your fingers in your ear and go "lalalalalala, Nost Devs know! We have no idea what they know, but they KNOW! And blizzard knows they know! Thats why Blizzard is so desperate to talk to them". If you had anything even remotely approaching a reasoned arguement we might take you seriously, but all you have is "they kno1!!" and nothing else at all.

You already convinced yourself that the meeting is a waste of time and will not contribute anything meaningful, so someone is definitely sticking fingers in [their] ears and going "lalalalalala.

It's the first time Blizzard ever invited a private server team to their HQ. Given the media attention, along with countless YouTube blogs, sometimes generating millions of views (ex: JonTron), if the meeting was nothing, then Blizzard is needlessly entering a shitstorm regarding their value of customers, past, current, and future. My money is that Blizzard knows more than you, sorry.

[OreoLover]

... if the meeting was nothing, then Blizzard is needlessly entering a shitstorm regarding their value of customers, past, current, and future. My money is that Blizzard knows more than you, sorry.

They're extending/creating massive goodwill, even if they turn around and never change. That goodwill is a major contribution.

I do expect they'll come up with some sort of fluff, or leave that to Nost's team. Beyond that, it would be nice if they address some takeaway points and/or developments.

[oraz4000]

"Legacy" wow would bring back a 10 year content drought. People are already dying from HFC's 1.5.

What drought? it would take months for the majority to level up, then work into 5 mans to get their 0.5 tier dungeon sets and then UBRS

I hope people experience how a proper MMORPG should play either on a private server or if eventually Blizzard releases legacy servers Vanilla was the greatest MMORPG they ever was.

Current game is a sad joke how the game used to be.

[Gadzooks]

Here's the problem with making things better in active wow. How do you bring back the old talent trees? How do you eliminate cross realm? How do you take away all the antisocial aspects of the current version to make us old timers happy keeping this antisocial generation of wow happy. How do you bring back the old continent pre cata?
You make legacy servers and milk us for our cash that's how. It's simple they gave the casuals what they wanted it's time to pay the guys and gals that made the game mainstream back.

You're right - it's not an easy thing, right? Now imagine how people who's salary depends on answering that feel. Do you make a cash grab...or make the game better?

I won't say you're wrong for saying that - but I think the discussion of how it could happen would be more productive than "Fuck that, just make a vanilla server".

[Deleted]

Real question - would removing cross-realm improve the existing game?

Personally, i think a lot of players would dislike this... BUT... after a while... i bet world of warcraft will go back to ~12m players or more.
because of community, knowing people on your realm, talking to people again...

but of course there needs to be more tweaks than that... like replacing every other "RPG" part of the game...
in the current wow there is no "RPG" what so ever, professions suck, rogues don't have to cook poisons, you don't have to run to where you wanna go...
90% of the current gametime you stay inside a dungeon, a battleground or your garrison / capital city...
you don't go farm stuff cuz you get free money by doing dungeons... and your items barely break in battlegrounds so you don't really need money for repair even...

i don't wanna sit here and whine, and i guess you understand already that i'm one of those who really want vanilla back and i think that the current game is garbage... but then again, i know that there is loooooooooooooooooooooooots of people that agree with me... and same goes for people that disagree

[Saucerian]

How does "no promises" = This looks like The Big One for Classic servers.

I mean the single biggest, sincerest consideration Blizzard will likely ever give the idea. Not saying guaranteed to happen.

[draya]

You're right - it's not an easy thing, right? Now imagine how people who's salary depends on answering that feel. Do you make a cash grab...or make the game better?

I won't say you're wrong for saying that - but I think the discussion of how it could happen would be more productive than "Fuck that, just make a vanilla server".

If I may, I don't think it's really possible to go back and remove all the easy button elements at this point. They'd lose their current players. I also don't think they're interested in putting that many resources or that much effort into improving the game. They want WoW to coast now, and thrive off the cash shop. It's easy button players that like the cash shop. They want to fill the shop and let it ride while they make other cheap to make games that provide big profits. MMORPGs are cost and resource intensive.

Legacy servers aren't new content, so I believe some of the above is why they are now, finally, considering doing them. They can coast on them as well, once they're complete.

They wanted all audiences for their game, but they failed to provide for all audiences. A one size fits all game just isn't going to work. So, I do think they need two separate games. Give something back to the people who helped grow the game, and let the "new" players keep their easy button and their cash shop.

[Gadzooks]

If I may, I don't think it's really possible to go back and remove all the easy button elements at this point. They'd lose their current players. I also don't think they're interested in putting that many resources or that much effort into improving the game. They want WoW to coast now, and thrive off the cash shop. It's easy button players that like the cash shop. They want to fill the shop and let it ride while they make other cheap to make games that provide big profits. MMORPGs are cost and resource intensive.

Legacy servers aren't new content, so I believe some of the above is why they are now, finally, considering doing them. They can coast on them as well, once they're complete.

They wanted all audiences for their game, but they failed to provide for all audiences. A one size fits all game just isn't going to work. So, I do think they need two separate games. Give something back to the people who helped grow the game, and let the "new" players keep their easy button and their cash shop.

I don't want to argue - but I disagree. I think Legion shows they're not interested in "coasting" - and I think they may be realizing how far down the wrong road they've gone with the game. For Ion to publicly say leveling is broken? They're thinking of the game, overall, not just the end-game. We'll see.

[draya]

I don't want to argue - but I disagree. I think Legion shows they're not interested in "coasting" - and I think they may be realizing how far down the wrong road they've gone with the game. For Ion to publicly say leveling is broken? They're thinking of the game, overall, not just the end-game. We'll see.

It's all good. I don't want to argue either, just expressing my opinion. Frankly, I hope you're right.

I guess I'm just more cynical than you are. I figure they slowed down leveling to sell more boosts. I guess time will tell. It certainly would be nice to see the game move back toward what it once was (not gonna hold my breath, though).

[Gadzooks]

Personally, i think a lot of players would dislike this... BUT... after a while... i bet world of warcraft will go back to ~12m players or more.
because of community, knowing people on your realm, talking to people again...

but of course there needs to be more tweaks than that... like replacing every other "RPG" part of the game...
in the current wow there is no "RPG" what so ever, professions suck, rogues don't have to cook poisons, you don't have to run to where you wanna go...
90% of the current gametime you stay inside a dungeon, a battleground or your garrison / capital city...
you don't go farm stuff cuz you get free money by doing dungeons... and your items barely break in battlegrounds so you don't really need money for repair even...

i don't wanna sit here and whine, and i guess you understand already that i'm one of those who really want vanilla back and i think that the current game is garbage... but then again, i know that there is loooooooooooooooooooooooots of people that agree with me... and same goes for people that disagree

I've been thinking about it off and on for a while. While I like things like LFR, CRZ was never something i had any investment in, and looking at it, it was a bandaid to a problem with their server populations, so removing it or changing it substantially may be a needed fix.

There may be a middle ground, between the current game, and vanilla, that addresses most of the issues. I completely agree about server communities - it's sorely missing from the game, and it's one of the things that made vanilla what it was. As much as I like the convenience of LFR, I have to admit the damage has been done. AndI agree that the immersion elements that were removed over the years need to come back - WOD was the worst for that - professions were mostly useless, everything a pointless grind, no choices, everything on a rail, headed into a raid instance.

I understand why people want vanilla back - I played it from two weeks after WoW opened, right through to the end, when I got into the TBC beta. A certain group of usual suspects in this thread paint anyone who disagrees with them as "legacy haters" - which is simply untrue. I get it. I get why people play on illegal servers. I've never questioned that. My stance was, don't come crying here when they get shut down, and start making ridiculous claims about the laws and copyrights and such, or how Blizzard 'owes" players vanilla. Blizzard's devs have said repeatedly there's support for it within their own team - but it's simply too complex and costly to just throw up a vanilla server, separate from the live game.

Nobody knows what they'll do. Maybe the server guys at Blizzard can figure out a way to make a legacy server that doesn't need a server-farm like current realms need, reducing the cost and effort. Or they'll try to fix and change the current game to allow all levels of play, and make the experience as meaningful as vanilla. I'm pretty sure that's the discussion internally right now - we know there's interest...what do we do? How much will it cost? How do we deploy it? Do we allow characters to transfer off the server once they hit 60, onto live servers? Can we script the character transfer to fix all the inconsistencies for gear/rep/achievements between the two games? Do we pay for it out of Wow's dev budget, or try to make it a stand-alone product, with it's own staff, support, and sub costs?

It's a lot to figure out - and they may not even be agreed they're going to do *anything* at this point.

[Jaylock]

It feels like this is a dead topic now.. Just gotta let go.. I definitely don't want vanilla servers to happen, and it just seems like all requests are and have been falling on deaf ears.

[Eleccybubb]

It feels like this is a dead topic now.. Just gotta let go.. I definitely don't want vanilla servers to happen, and it just seems like all requests are and have been falling on deaf ears.

We will see once the meeting with Nostalrius has happened. Until then it really isn't and the interest for it is still there and this topic is ongoing.

[Sliske]

It feels like this is a dead topic now.. Just gotta let go.. I definitely don't want vanilla servers to happen, and it just seems like all requests are and have been falling on deaf ears.

Man is this your job? To just constantly troll? I gotta admit, its impressive. You've been consistantly trolling for like at least 4 years now. I still wonder what possess you to do it though, probably crippling depression

[Gadzooks]

We will see once the meeting with Nostalrius has happened. Until then it really isn't and the interest for it is still there and this topic is ongoing.

I know it's been discussed at length, but again - don't hold a lot of hope for anything constructive from the Nost meeting. There is no compelling data or information they have that's going to change anything. Like Kern said, if you give him any credibility, they're (Blizzard) at the beginning of this process. That means they're a ways from deciding anything.

I could be wrong. They could announce something after the meeting. I doubt it, tho. I would be very surprised if anything is announced. At the very least, they're in the middle of getting Legion out the door, anything else will have to wait.

If they even decide anything. It's a real possibility they could listen to everyone, have a bunch of meetings and do a lot of research and number crunching...and decide it's not worth the headache. Even Kern said (again, if you give him any credibility) he thinks it's 50/50.

[Eleccybubb]

Man is this your job? To just constantly troll? I gotta admit, its impressive. You've been consistantly trolling for like at least 4 years now. I still wonder what possess you to do it though, probably crippling depression

Just don't bother dude. State the obvious you get infracted/banned here.

[Molis]

I assume Nost uses spaces in their code and not tabs.

[Trunksee]

What if they let nostalrius announce they are doing legacy. Maybe that's why they are there to guarantee their player base. Would be big news and fun.

[Froggy]

Maybe I'm insane and/or delusional. But I feel like at 2016 Blizzcon, they will deliver the earth-shaking news that official legacy servers (starting with Vanilla) are currently in the works and launching soon(ish).