1. #1161
    Quote Originally Posted by Antilurker77 View Post
    PE buffs Storm Elemental's damage as well.
    Then you waste 2 talents to buff a 5mins CD... sigh excelent game design.

  2. #1162
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellfury View Post
    Then you waste 2 talents to buff a 5mins CD... sigh excelent game design.
    Yeah, it sucks.

  3. #1163
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellfury View Post
    Then you waste 2 talents to buff a 5mins CD... sigh excelent game design.
    Except it's not a 5 min CD anymore. Normal Nighthold gear is enough to get it down to a 3 minute cooldown. Wouldn't be surprised if it can get a 100% uptime by the end of the expac.

  4. #1164
    but hey look, that new neck piece gives some health regen when in water!!1!!

  5. #1165
    Quote Originally Posted by EternalHungers View Post
    but hey look, that new neck piece gives some health regen when in water!!1!!
    that did make me laugh, i was like ok a lot of these suck, then i saw the shaman one, and i hoped blizzard HQ caught on fire and people we're badly burn't, because that would be KARMA.

  6. #1166
    Tbh SE was often a viable choice in WoD and packs utility with the heals and MS buff as well, but it's annoying how there isn't anything to control on it and is very fire and forget

  7. #1167
    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    that did make me laugh, i was like ok a lot of these suck, then i saw the shaman one, and i hoped blizzard HQ caught on fire and people we're badly burn't, because that would be KARMA.

    They all pretty much suck, I'd wager they are just flavor added to a crafting item as a niche perk . The only one that really has any DPS value may be the hunter one but i'm sure the second Bliz makes a mistake and puts a beast in as a raid boss it'll get nerfed to only work when playing solo or not in a raid instance, ect. The druid one looks like a typo or misprint, 1000% seems a bit dramatic.

    I'm interested in how much regen you actually get in the water though, I can think of a lot of world quest areas where theres a small puddle/pool to stand in to allow for no down time if the regen is potent enough.

  8. #1168
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Antilurker77 View Post
    Except it's not a 5 min CD anymore. Normal Nighthold gear is enough to get it down to a 3 minute cooldown. Wouldn't be surprised if it can get a 100% uptime by the end of the expac.
    You'll be surprised because secondary stats don't grow like previously before Legion.

  9. #1169
    The priest necklace looks really good for healers. Unless mana isn't an issue for healers anymore.

  10. #1170
    Oh. i just started levelling an Elemental Shaman for Legion, but this thread doesnt look too encouraging. Is there any hope that this will be ironed out before it goes live?

  11. #1171
    Quote Originally Posted by BentPencils View Post
    Oh. i just started levelling an Elemental Shaman for Legion, but this thread doesnt look too encouraging. Is there any hope that this will be ironed out before it goes live?
    About as much as the last expansions, though more feedback was given at that time.

  12. #1172
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellfury View Post
    Then you waste 2 talents to buff a 5mins CD... sigh excelent game design.
    #justshamanthings

  13. #1173
    Quote Originally Posted by BentPencils View Post
    Oh. i just started levelling an Elemental Shaman for Legion, but this thread doesnt look too encouraging. Is there any hope that this will be ironed out before it goes live?
    I recommend you try playing one yourself and go with that. I'm currently leveling my 4th shaman as elemental (3 Elemental, 1 Enhancement )on the beta to 110 and can honestly say I've never had any issues with feeling weak or slow. I also play alongside my wife who has access too and she plays both a survival hunter and frost mage and from my end it doesn't seem like our damage is any different than those two classes. I'm not claiming our class is amazing or overpowered, but I can tell you I've not been able to reproduced or experience the doom-saying that this forum has provided.

    Your own personal experience is what matters and remember to take forum reading with a grain of salt. I say that because most people who post on forums are upset about something and vary rarely are their posts un-biased towards their own negativity.

    Just to help you this is the talent setup I use:

    Path of Flame
    Gust of Wind
    Lightning Surge Totem
    Ancestral Swiftness
    Primal Elementalist
    Lightning Rod
    Ascendance

    If you have any questions feel free to ask and I'd be happy to reply with my own experiences in the alpha->beta.

  14. #1174
    Quote Originally Posted by BentPencils View Post
    Oh. i just started levelling an Elemental Shaman for Legion, but this thread doesnt look too encouraging. Is there any hope that this will be ironed out before it goes live?
    I was like you, but then I started to see nerf after nerf.

    For example the last build was a buff to ES but nerfed the generators expecialy LvB and that is a indirect nerf to 2 of the level 100 talents, ashendence(all about LvB spam during the duration) and Frostfury(where you spend the Malestron more on empowered FS and less frequently on ES)

    And then you get the emphasis on so many AOE talents, and in the end our AOE is so mediocre .
    Last edited by Hellfury; 2016-05-31 at 05:37 PM.

  15. #1175
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Omnious View Post
    I recommend you try playing one yourself and go with that. I'm currently leveling my 4th shaman as elemental (3 Elemental, 1 Enhancement )on the beta to 110 and can honestly say I've never had any issues with feeling weak or slow. I also play alongside my wife who has access too and she plays both a survival hunter and frost mage and from my end it doesn't seem like our damage is any different than those two classes. I'm not claiming our class is amazing or overpowered, but I can tell you I've not been able to reproduced or experience the doom-saying that this forum has provided.

    Your own personal experience is what matters and remember to take forum reading with a grain of salt. I say that because most people who post on forums are upset about something and vary rarely are their posts un-biased towards their own negativity.

    Just to help you this is the talent setup I use:

    Path of Flame
    Gust of Wind
    Lightning Surge Totem
    Ancestral Swiftness
    Primal Elementalist
    Lightning Rod
    Ascendance

    If you have any questions feel free to ask and I'd be happy to reply with my own experiences in the alpha->beta.
    That is most likely because you didn't level any other class to 110 yet.

    And his own personal experience, or yours or mine are completely irrelevant when theory crafting and practical Raid use comes into the equation. People don't go around and post nonsense like you seem to suggest. We have mathematical and practical proof that something isn't working, or isn't working right or isn't working like something else.

  16. #1176
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellfury View Post
    I was like you, but then I started to see nerf after nerf.

    For example the last build was a buff to ES but nerfed the generators expecialy LvB and that is a indirect nerf to 2 of the level 100 talents, ashendence(all about LvB spam during the duration) and Frostfury(where you spend the Malestron more on empowered FS and less frequently on ES)

    And then you get the emphasis on so many AOE talents, and in the end our AOE is so mediocre .
    The more I think about it, the more I see that Icefury doesn't work that well on pve. Even when some may said, it'd be great on mobile-heavy fight. Because it has to be cast before the buff applied. Means, it wouldn't be as instinctive as we had on WSG. And to have four charges, are either too much because it would fuck up our rotation priority and MS management, or useless at all at this rate because ES is more worthy to spend MS on. It's more like an extra MS generator for what it worth to me on pve. With that 4 charges buffed 4 FrS being it extra perks.

    I guess it was set for pvp purpose on the first place, the situation where you'll helplessly trained by melee (but hey, at least you can fight back and spam ouch-ish FrS to them).
    Last edited by Rezhka; 2016-05-31 at 06:16 PM.

  17. #1177
    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    That is most likely because you didn't level any other class to 110 yet.

    And his own personal experience, or yours or mine are completely irrelevant when theory crafting and practical Raid use comes into the equation. People don't go around and post nonsense like you seem to suggest. We have mathematical and practical proof that something isn't working, or isn't working right or isn't working like something else.

    @BentPencils:

    You can pretty much almost skim over most of the posts made by Ucandosht, he champions the negativity of this forums. If I had to guess its a misery likes company thing, the "theory crafting" hes referring to is a post made by Binkenstein which you can find here:

    https://binkenstein.wordpress.com/20...ing-elemental/

    There are several other posts by Binkenstein and if you don't know who he is, Bink is one of the main theory-crafters for Elemental over the years. He does great work without a doubt and no one would question that.

    The problem is that tuning isn't completed so the real argument of theory-crafting currently is trying to predict how things will scale and you can safely just make your own judgement until the game is live. I'll also add that most of Bink's post point to these scaling issues down the road and a lack of personal choice, not that things are under performing or broken.

    You can also look over logs if you want, I tend to take logs over theory crafting since its actual data rather than math.

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

    These were logs of some raid testing on Cenarius for example, of course standard disclaimers apply such as player skill, raid comp, ect. But both shaman specs seem to be doing fine. There have been a delay of logs recently with the beta wipe and everyone having to re-level.

    The bottom line is don't take the negativity on these forums to heart, honestly most of it is just personal re-hashes of what Binkenstein says and often they are taken to such far extremes it makes you want to gag. I can't stress the experience the game play yourself part, don't just blindly believe what others say, myself included.

  18. #1178
    Deleted
    You forgot to mention that Binkenstein rerolled Mage for reasons mentioned in his blog and this thread. But whatever suits you.

    No one says Elemental is completely unplayable. Its just not viable in the two main things you can do in this game - PvP and PvE. I think it's very viable for questing with your wife, tho.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rezhka View Post
    The more I think about it, the more I see that Icefury doesn't work that well on pve. Even when some may said, it'd be great on mobile-heavy fight. Because it has to be cast before the buff applied. Means, it wouldn't be as instinctive as we had on WSG. And to have four charges, are either too much because it would fuck up our rotation priority and MS management, or useless at all at this rate because ES is more worthy to spend MS on. It's more like an extra MS generator for what it worth to me on pve. With that 4 charges buffed 4 FrS being it extra perks.

    I guess it was set for pvp purpose on the first place, the situation where you'll helplessly trained by melee (but hey, at least you can fight back and spam ouch-ish FrS to them).
    Don't forget that you need a different secondary stat setup for the level 100 talents.
    Last edited by mmoc59b5827c7e; 2016-05-31 at 08:53 PM.

  19. #1179
    Quote Originally Posted by Rezhka View Post
    The more I think about it, the more I see that Icefury doesn't work that well on pve. Even when some may said, it'd be great on mobile-heavy fight. Because it has to be cast before the buff applied. Means, it wouldn't be as instinctive as we had on WSG. And to have four charges, are either too much because it would fuck up our rotation priority and MS management, or useless at all at this rate because ES is more worthy to spend MS on. It's more like an extra MS generator for what it worth to me on pve. With that 4 charges buffed 4 FrS being it extra perks.

    I guess it was set for pvp purpose on the first place, the situation where you'll helplessly trained by melee (but hey, at least you can fight back and spam ouch-ish FrS to them).
    Frostfury is great for leveling and doing world content where you wont be doing Ascendence every time, and last build was a indirect nerf to it, PVP(which uses frostfury) and mobile fights.

    Besides I really like the idea of FF, it makes the rotation more engaging and give us more of a Elementalist feel to use the 4 elements.

    ES needed a buff to have more humpf but not at the cost of LvB and LB(which does tickle level damage now)

  20. #1180
    Although I'm not really a fan of the way Ucandosht goes about it(and holy hell am I sick of seeing Ion's face), he's usually correct. I'd say the main difference in bias in the forums here is from the level of content people wish to play. There's many different ways to enjoy the game; for some that means getting by in solo content or doing casual PvP/raiding but from what I've read here, most of the negativity comes from those that want to play ele at its maximum potential in the most difficult content. Those people (Ucandosht especially) may come off as doom and gloom/butthurt, but it's more of a "I've had the shits for the last three days" warranted butthurt. Ele, just like almost every class+spec, has always been able to get by for any casual/average content. However, that rarely holds true for Ele at the high end. When your class is played at its maximum potential and it's still so far behind that even a person playing another class at 60-70% of it's potential can be more useful, that's a serious problem.

    You can also look over logs if you want, I tend to take logs over theory crafting since its actual data rather than math.

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

    These were logs of some raid testing on Cenarius for example, of course standard disclaimers apply such as player skill, raid comp, ect. But both shaman specs seem to be doing fine. There have been a delay of logs recently with the beta wipe and everyone having to re-level.
    People talking like this really get under my skin.
    First - theorycrafting is just as if not more important than random logs/"actual data". Without it, those logs mean nothing because you need a THEORY of how best to play before you can test it and get your actual data. You need an idea before you turn it into a reality. Science very rarely makes anything useful until they discover at least the basics of how it works. Theorycrafting is the science that makes your math worth something.

    Second - Based on what you've said, I have a feeling you're the type of person who looks at those logs and sees the shamans near the top of the meters and gives everyone the "all good" signal for shamans without looking at ANY of the important information behind it. For example, if Ele did as much DPS as a MM hunter on live, do you think it would make them viable for high end play? The answer is NO. It comes down to a LOT more than simple number and placement on the meters.

    P.S. take all logs with a grain of salt. People have learned very well how to pad the meters just so they can look skilled to people who don't know any better.

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