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  1. #1541
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    So now that maybe 2-3 people abuse the system in every other group your going to abuse the system......

    Pot meet kettle.

    You want to punish the many over the actions of a super small few.
    Now you're just moving goal posts.

    I want a system that punishes abusers and rewards those who are actively participating in an encounter. I don't want a system where just showing up is the only standard for loot.

    Are you even reading what I'm typing before hitting "reply with quote"?
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  2. #1542
    Quote Originally Posted by tgoodchild View Post
    I think he's confusing you with Eapoe, who has stated outright that he afk's in LFR. As far as I've seen, you've made no such claim about yourself.
    I mite have and if so mybad.
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  3. #1543
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    I mite have and if so mybad.
    No harm, no foul. Carry on.
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  4. #1544
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    The thing is that your not considering is maybe those people are putting in 100% of there effort and that's the payout. Not everyone is at the same skill level. Some put 100% in and do 30k dps and some put in 100% and do 100k dps.

    Your basing ur actions on the skill of others. Doesn't matter if you did 999k dps, You went afk and therefor top dps or not people carried you to a kill.

    Could you do top dps and solo it? If not you was still carried.
    Well, here's where we differ. I have enough awareness that I can look at other things on my screen and notice the people that are trying vs the people who are afk or just messing around, I can look at damage meters and notice who uses what abilities and knows what they are doing class/spec wise.
    I'm told to carry people, to which I ask why and no one gives an answer that makes sense. I say that I do what everyone else does and I'm told I'm being carried. There's a whole level of hypocrisy right there I don't want to delve into, so moving on. I give an example of how I split the difference, instead of staying in full time, I do my opener, probably stay the whole fight if others are, afk if I see the majority doing the same, which in turn means I'm not carrying nor am I being carried. If I can do the damage I do that's comparable to all the other raiders (and yes, that means that after a huge opener I can finish top 3 with auto attacks the rest of the fight or doing 1/2 the fight or the full fight), then there is no carrying from any party. I'm simply there doing comparable damage to others.
    The sad truth is that because of this people like you try to say I'm an a hole for not carrying you, to which I then reply why am I supposed to? Why am I supposed to work harder to let you work easier? I've explained that if I see the majority doing the fight (mechanics/pressing buttons/etc) that I do the same. The sad truth is I don't see that that often, so I use the same playstyle as the people I'm playing with. That's why I've said, I have no problems with LFR in its existence, but I would prefer that Blizzard puts in place an activity counter for the chance at loot. This discourages ALL players from the afk model.

  5. #1545
    Herald of the Titans Deathgoose's Avatar
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    Simple solution is to just have LFR share a loot lockout with the higher difficulty levels.

    People that only run LFR get a lower iLvL tier.
    People that don't want to do LFR won't feel compelled to run it.

  6. #1546
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    Why should I have to carry people? I don't care about the dps, but as it stands, why should I have to put more effort into LFR because I have gear? Why imply that because I have higher gear I should have more active time on a boss fight? As I stated earlier, if I do everything I can on my opener, then tab out and just autoattack and still finish in top 3 on damage, I've already put in more work than other people.
    If that's what you choose to do then go right on ahead. I personally don't find pushing buttons on my keyboard to be all that taxing, and I would prefer to DPS my heart out and get the LFR done faster.

    Edit: Mind you the philosophy of not wanting to carry makes perfect sense to me outside of LFR. Nothing more irritating than being expected to carry someone in an actual raid. But, literally all but a couple dps can be asleep in LFR and the boss will still die. So I really just don't see the big deal in content that's so completely trivial.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathgoose View Post
    Simple solution is to just have LFR share a loot lockout with the higher difficulty levels.

    People that only run LFR get a lower iLvL tier.
    People that don't want to do LFR won't feel compelled to run it.
    There would still be whining. Mythic raiders would still have 3 options on tier. Heroic raiders would have 2, and Normal raiders would only have 1. The change would have to be across the board to prevent the "favoritism" complaints, and that would be going back to the old way of doing things. (Which I wouldn't necessarily disagree with, but the "Now I can't fill my raid" complaints will come with that one.) Double edged sword, no way of making everyone happy.
    Last edited by ejpaints; 2016-06-01 at 12:52 AM.

  7. #1547
    The half life of a proton has been estimated by some to be 10^32 years, which is 22 orders of magnitude greater than the current age of the Universe.

    By one of those weird cosmic coincidences, it is also 22 orders of magnitude smaller than the number of years people will be crying about LFR.

  8. #1548
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    This discourages ALL players from the afk model.
    Doesn't discourage me so I guess that proves you wrong.

    You rather be apart of the problem then part of the solution. You can try to justfi it all you want but you are equally as bad as as anyone else who afk's. I don't give a shit if you do 999k dps the first 3sec of the fight and alt tab over. Also I would love to see a video of you doing dps for 3sec and keeping the #1 spot or even top 3 in the dps charts.

    Bottom line is this. You sit there and say the majority isn't doing the fights and is afk. I am calling bullshit on that for one simple reason. Archy.. There is zero chance of finishing that fight with 15 people afk. At best in any LFR you go into you may get 2-3 afk and they are noticeable right off.

    Right now make a video showing me 10 subpar dps/tanks/heals total finishing that fight. You won't because you can't, You bitch about having to carry people when infact its you who gets carried.

    Each LFR I go into I pull my top dps on boss fights, Do I sometime get lax on trash...yep but once the boss is pulled I try to top what I did before. People like you who blow there load and afk I got to carrie.

    I rather carry someone playing sub-par over some elitis prick who blows CD's and afk's for the next 3-5mins.
    Last edited by Jtbrig7390; 2016-06-01 at 03:47 AM.
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  9. #1549
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    Once again stop giving a shit about what others get. Ether get in do ur thing and get out or don't go in at all.

    Afking 3sec after the pull is making you apart of the problem.
    Eh, it's more of 20 seconds after a pull, after I use all my CD's and they run their course. I won't post a video, but I'll get links at some point if you really desire proof. I freely admit I can be part of the problem. I've stated how I play and what I do when I see the majority doing it. If you have an issue with it, start a cause to get Blizzard to change their system, but as it stands, Im not there to put in extra work to make up for other people who can't take time to learn their class of afk themselves.
    And you're saying you wouldn't endorse a model to actually force people to stay in not afk to receive loot? Seems like a double standard.
    Funny thing is, I've said repeatedly I will stay in and play the whole fight when I see other people doing the same, and when I see them afk'ing or screwing around I do the same. I actually said the same thing you did, which is I'd rather play with people actually trying and giving a good effort than some d bag casual who afk's out so they get free gear.
    Last edited by Eapoe; 2016-06-01 at 05:06 AM.

  10. #1550
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathgoose View Post
    Simple solution is to just have LFR share a loot lockout with the higher difficulty levels.

    People that only run LFR get a lower iLvL tier.
    People that don't want to do LFR won't feel compelled to run it.
    That only solves a minor problem.

    Putting tier gear in LFR shows that 1.) they're not very interested in making meaningful end-game content outside of raiding, and 2.) they don't care at all about making older content in an expansion obsolete.

    To me, this is a huge slap in the face to Mythic+. When the 2nd tier of LFR rolls around (or even the first), your progress in Mythic+ as an average player is likely going to be made irrelevant. You worked your ass off through content that's actually DIFFICULT, yet you end up with gear that's inferior to what the loot pinata, LFR, offers. We obviously don't know how this is going to play out, but putting tier gear into LFR is a very bad sign to me.

    Once again, everyone is pigeon holed into one method for obtaining the best gear. Alts of raiders are forced to run a 3rd/4th difficulty of the same raid they're already burning out on if they want to progress their character efficiently. People who don't want to raid are forced to run LFR to gear efficiently. Is Mythic+ going to offer tier gear? How the hell could it with infinite difficulties/ilvl rewards? But LFR, the content that is far less difficult, WILL offer tier gear. How is this fair to people who don't want to raid at all? Why does a raider want to gear an alt on yet another difficulty?

    As someone who has subbed almost solely for raiding since vanilla, I'd like for raids to be removed at this point. I'm pretty fed up with this design and would prefer they just tiered a ton of dungeons throughout the expansion instead.

  11. #1551
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilgameshh View Post
    That only solves a minor problem.

    Putting tier gear in LFR shows that 1.) they're not very interested in making meaningful end-game content outside of raiding, and 2.) they don't care at all about making older content in an expansion obsolete.

    To me, this is a huge slap in the face to Mythic+. When the 2nd tier of LFR rolls around (or even the first), your progress in Mythic+ as an average player is likely going to be made irrelevant. You worked your ass off through content that's actually DIFFICULT, yet you end up with gear that's inferior to what the loot pinata, LFR, offers. We obviously don't know how this is going to play out, but putting tier gear into LFR is a very bad sign to me.

    Once again, everyone is pigeon holed into one method for obtaining the best gear. Alts of raiders are forced to run a 3rd/4th difficulty of the same raid they're already burning out on if they want to progress their character efficiently. People who don't want to raid are forced to run LFR to gear efficiently. Is Mythic+ going to offer tier gear? How the hell could it with infinite difficulties/ilvl rewards? But LFR, the content that is far less difficult, WILL offer tier gear. How is this fair to people who don't want to raid at all? Why does a raider want to gear an alt on yet another difficulty?

    As someone who has subbed almost solely for raiding since vanilla, I'd like for raids to be removed at this point. I'm pretty fed up with this design and would prefer they just tiered a ton of dungeons throughout the expansion instead.
    You're assuming that item levels awarded from mythic+ dungeons won't increase with patches.
    They might as well could increase, cos Blizzard is pushing this system to make dungeons relevant for the entire expac duration.
    Perhaps some new dungeons will be made, with much higher base ilvl reward.

    Never assume things based on what you have now, cos you have no idea how it will work in patch 7.2. Nobody has.

  12. #1552
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleavestorm View Post

    Paying Gold for Mythic Archimonde kill because. Cash/Gold/In game currency.
    I wouldn't really consider that beating the game, and I'm sure that people selling runs isn't a new thing at all

  13. #1553
    Immortal roahn the warlock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OreoLover View Post
    Can consider LFR a "catchup" use, if that's the case.

    You'll get more gear with it, not less.
    Doesn't make me wanna sit through that living hell. Wanted to actually go out and do things in the world, but all rewards will pale in comparison to LFR. Blizzard played themselves here. Doesnt matter how you look at it.
    It was never Hardcore Vs Casual. It was Socialites Vs. Solo players
    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    World of Warcraft started life as a Computer Roleplaying Game, where part of the fun of the game experience was pretending to be your character. Stuff like applying poisons and eating food enhanced the verisimilitude of the experience of playing a fantasy character in another world. Now that game has changed to become a tactical arcade lobby game.

  14. #1554
    Pandaren Monk OreoLover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    Why should I have to carry people? I don't care about the dps, but as it stands, why should I have to put more effort into LFR because I have gear? Why imply that because I have higher gear I should have more active time on a boss fight? As I stated earlier, if I do everything I can on my opener, then tab out and just autoattack and still finish in top 3 on damage, I've already put in more work than other people.
    ...that's definitely a problem with the system.

    Anyone without activity (regardless of output) should be removed from loot/rewards. If someone can put as much output in 5% of the fight as others in 98% of the fight, that's another problem. Perhaps power is over-rewarded, perhaps effort is under-rewarded, etc.

    Again, I think anyone inactive should be removed.
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  15. #1555
    Immortal roahn the warlock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esubane View Post
    You're assuming that item levels awarded from mythic+ dungeons won't increase with patches.
    They might as well could increase, cos Blizzard is pushing this system to make dungeons relevant for the entire expac duration.
    Perhaps some new dungeons will be made, with much higher base ilvl reward.

    Never assume things based on what you have now, cos you have no idea how it will work in patch 7.2. Nobody has.
    Remember this, a 740 fully upgraded non-teir robe is never ever better than even a normal HFC tier item.
    It was never Hardcore Vs Casual. It was Socialites Vs. Solo players
    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    World of Warcraft started life as a Computer Roleplaying Game, where part of the fun of the game experience was pretending to be your character. Stuff like applying poisons and eating food enhanced the verisimilitude of the experience of playing a fantasy character in another world. Now that game has changed to become a tactical arcade lobby game.

  16. #1556
    Pandaren Monk OreoLover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    Doesn't make me wanna sit through that living hell. Wanted to actually go out and do things in the world, but all rewards will pale in comparison to LFR. Blizzard played themselves here. Doesnt matter how you look at it.
    You mentioned alts and not starting the raid race early. You can completely skip LFR in terms of those, and if you had a positive view of LFR then you'd be happy for the option. The "valor" part of it is a much bigger annoyance, IMO, to those who would otherwise avoid it.
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    Unsub or sub later. Give Blizzard feedback, "vote" with money.
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  17. #1557
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilgameshh View Post
    That only solves a minor problem.

    Putting tier gear in LFR shows that 1.) they're not very interested in making meaningful end-game content outside of raiding, and 2.) they don't care at all about making older content in an expansion obsolete.

    To me, this is a huge slap in the face to Mythic+. When the 2nd tier of LFR rolls around (or even the first), your progress in Mythic+ as an average player is likely going to be made irrelevant. You worked your ass off through content that's actually DIFFICULT, yet you end up with gear that's inferior to what the loot pinata, LFR, offers. We obviously don't know how this is going to play out, but putting tier gear into LFR is a very bad sign to me.

    Once again, everyone is pigeon holed into one method for obtaining the best gear. Alts of raiders are forced to run a 3rd/4th difficulty of the same raid they're already burning out on if they want to progress their character efficiently. People who don't want to raid are forced to run LFR to gear efficiently. Is Mythic+ going to offer tier gear? How the hell could it with infinite difficulties/ilvl rewards? But LFR, the content that is far less difficult, WILL offer tier gear. How is this fair to people who don't want to raid at all? Why does a raider want to gear an alt on yet another difficulty?

    As someone who has subbed almost solely for raiding since vanilla, I'd like for raids to be removed at this point. I'm pretty fed up with this design and would prefer they just tiered a ton of dungeons throughout the expansion instead.
    DAMN captain hyperbole, slow your roll!

    Normal raiders at the bleeding edge content have been doing silly shit forever during the world-first race. In many cases it's holding onto an older tier gear and only upgrading things like weapons, bracers, etc. A perfect example of this would be warriors moving into HFC where you held onto BRF's tier until you got the 4-piece.

    This actually makes a more efficient lane for these raiders to game the system on getting their 4 piece and afterwards they can just stay out.

    It doesn't effect the gearing of alts all that much either since mythic raiders in need of gearing out a character are more than willing to run splits and funnel gear.

    And what pigeon hole are you talking about?

    Raiding has ALWAYS been the way to obtain the best gear. In Vanilla if you were even an entry level raider with just a few pieces you destroyed people in PvP. In BC there was a bit more gear parity but the best gear was for raiding and often crafted specifically for in order to have things like resist sets for tanks. LK you could badge your way to basic tier gear but in order to gain heroic tier you had to work your way up through tokens and needed to split your raid for 10/25 in order to obtain the BiS trinkets that were only available on specific difficulties. Cata went back to the starting LK model of badges for basic but tokens for showpieces, then eventually dropped DS 25 where the loot distribution was terrible and easily abused. Then comes MoP, loot in LFR is still tier, considerably less stats but with set bonuses, this kept alts to a specific baseline and made it easier for PuGs to accept someone knowing they'd have a set bonus which can often trump item level.

    Now in WoD they have shit looking gear, which is fine, but LFR exclusive set bonuses which disenfranchises players from moving up into raids because you're a second class citizen. Even though the bonuses are mediocre the 4-pieces are useful enough that you don't want to break up a set despite being able to get a higher average item level through the mindlessness of Tanaan and mythic dungeons.

    Around the bend we have Legion where if you want to push item level you can get some of the best gear in the game from dungeons with mythic keystones and titanforged bonuses. It remains to be seen if these levels from titanforging and mythic+ will be enough to rise above set bonuses, but it's definitely an alternative gearing pathway and will for most basic raiders - LFR and normal - probably lead to the best place to farm artifacts to increase weapon level and quite possibly trinkets as well.

    Sucks that you feel that LFR getting set bonuses is a big wet sloppy dick being dragged across your face, but frankly the money is in LFR and not in mythic raids and Blizz is far better off incentivizing the larger audience to get into raiding than holding your precious little dainty hands that worry if someone else gets a Mazda Miata that it brings down the price of your Lamborghini Spyder.

  18. #1558
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    Eh, it's more of 20 seconds after a pull, after I use all my CD's and they run their course. I won't post a video, but I'll get links at some point if you really desire proof. I freely admit I can be part of the problem. I've stated how I play and what I do when I see the majority doing it. If you have an issue with it, start a cause to get Blizzard to change their system, but as it stands, Im not there to put in extra work to make up for other people who can't take time to learn their class of afk themselves.
    I don't really care either way as long as the boss is killed, but everything you're saying begs the question: why are you even playing? If you don't enjoy performing your role enough to do so regardless of what other people are doing then why even bother logging on? I could understand the argument if you were constantly wiping specifically because of people being afk, but according to most of these discussions wiping isn't a problem in LFR. It seems kinda pathetic to pay for this game if you don't actually enjoy playing it.

    That being said, I wouldn't mind the addition of minimum benchmarks in order to be eligible for gear/gold/achievements. Something above autoattacks that would penalize afkers but not so harsh that it would exclude people who just aren't good but still make an effort.

  19. #1559
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    I don't really care either way as long as the boss is killed, but everything you're saying begs the question: why are you even playing? If you don't enjoy performing your role enough to do so regardless of what other people are doing then why even bother logging on? I could understand the argument if you were constantly wiping specifically because of people being afk, but according to most of these discussions wiping isn't a problem in LFR. It seems kinda pathetic to pay for this game if you don't actually enjoy playing it.

    That being said, I wouldn't mind the addition of minimum benchmarks in order to be eligible for gear/gold/achievements. Something above autoattacks that would penalize afkers but not so harsh that it would exclude people who just aren't good but still make an effort.
    People enjoy playing it, but LFR isn't playing.
    For the Alliance, and for Azeroth!

  20. #1560
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    Remember this, a 740 fully upgraded non-teir robe is never ever better than even a normal HFC tier item.
    Actually it is

    I main warlock now and been extremely unlucky with Mannoroth drops. 20 HC kills + 2 mythic kills, never tier. Stuck with 705 normal mode one. Xhulhorac didn't dropped one either. So I have 3 mythic tier pieces and 2 shitty normal ones.

    Keeping 4-set only benefits me on single target fights on affliction spec. On fights with adds I use Destro and Destro is good enough with 2-set. It's 4-set is very weak: 12% chance of chaos bolt not consuming an ember. With CR I generate a crap ton of embers anyway, never short on them. And 12% is awfully low, this transfers to like 2-3 free CB's over a fight. I'll take 735 mythic upgraded robe over 705 piece of shit any day. Especially when I can unequip 735 mythic tierpiece and replace it with 746 MWF offpiece as well.

    Some classes have overpowered 4-set but not all.

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