What's the point of talents anymore?

[MrExcelion]

From a macro perspective, I look as it more of a way to give some classes a way to be viable on AOE fights or ST if their core design is lacking

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Gold is everywhere for you, perhaps. Not me. I do nothing other than 5-man/LFR/BGs, so gold is always short. So no, I'm not going to waste it on a respec--though, to be fair, I wouldn't need to respec to do the content I'm doing anyway--so doesn't really affect me, now that I consider it.

Fair enough. I admit I was being a bit snarky by twisting your comment around. My point was just that it was a subjective concern rather than objective/universal.

[hulkgor]

I love people mocking vanilla talents, yet raving about the new Artifact Power thingie in Legion lol.

OK THEN BUDDIES.

[lukoil]

I love people mocking vanilla talents, yet raving about the new Artifact Power thingie in Legion lol.

OK THEN BUDDIES.

Huh? They serve different roles
Old talents - "customisation" (which it lacks to be honest) and artifact traits = "progression".

[Mafic]

I love people mocking vanilla talents, yet raving about the new Artifact Power thingie in Legion lol.

OK THEN BUDDIES.

I agree.

Artifact talents force you to take passives that offer little game play value that you need to obtain to reach gold traits.

[hulkgor]

Huh? They serve different roles
Old talents - "customisation" (which it lacks to be honest) and artifact traits = "progression".

Exhibit A.

[Mafic]

Huh? They serve different roles
Old talents - "customisation" (which it lacks to be honest) and artifact traits = "progression".

You know the old talent trees were considered progression as well as you picked talents as leveled right?

[Ringthane]

So that you optimize and play differently in different situations. You're very much free not to change talents.

So am I correct in thinking optimize could also mean min/max? So then they haven't actually fixed the original problem they've been trying to fix since they started revising the talent system every expansion since Cata, and instead have made talents completely pointless.

[Bosen]

If Blizzard got rid of talents,they'd have to add customization options somewhere else to keep things interesting.

[Deleted]

If Blizzard got rid of talents,they'd have to add customization options somewhere else to keep things interesting.

I don't know if they would. I admit I play a class with awful talents but there hasn't really been any customization since wrath. I wouldn't really notice of they just scrapped talents at this point.

[Deleted]

talent trees need an overhaul again, the new talent system sucks, i think talents should have an xp bar the more you use a talent it would eventually be upgradable to a far more powerful and superior version of that talent, the talents only gain exp through killing mobs 2 levels below you or any level higher than you, so you cant sit in SW spamming a dummy all day to level it

[Elestia]

So am I correct in thinking optimize could also mean min/max? So then they haven't actually fixed the original problem they've been trying to fix since they started revising the talent system every expansion since Cata, and instead have made talents completely pointless.

From what I can tell, there's optimal aoe, cleave and single target builds for all dps. But that's just how it is with dps - it's your job to min max. Tanking and healing feels closer to it being a 'personal choice' just because tanks and healers have considerable power / more stability in their gameplay. Having variety with dps I think is welcome.

That said, dps this xpac do have noticeably more aoe power built in... so taking talents which supplement aren't always necessary. I don't think we'll see many sustained aoe fights in Legion (could be wrong). Emperator and the council fights in WoD were exceptions seemingly. I find cleave builds fun, or ever warriors and dh which have so much cleave built in.

If your concern is completely nullifying there being 'best talents' or the most reliable talents question being asked, then you may as well make everything cosmetic. There's variety for a reason - it's interesting and should be part of mastering your class.

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talent trees need an overhaul again, the new talent system sucks, i think talents should have an xp bar the more you use a talent it would eventually be upgradable to a far more powerful and superior version of that talent, the talents only gain exp through killing mobs 2 levels below you or any level higher than you, so you cant sit in SW spamming a dummy all day to level it

An xp bar for special abilities, my followers, myself and my artifact weapon? No thanks.

[lukoil]

You know the old talent trees were considered progression as well as you picked talents as leveled right?

Past level 60? No i don't remember that.

[Maudib]

Yes through WotLK (level 80) you picked talents and spent points in them. Every couple levels you gained a point to spend... and it felt like a solid progression and you could FEEL the difference.

I do miss:

[Baine]

I wonder if the new talent swap rules will upset that much players. I suppose that most of them keep the same talents without changing them. Personnally, I remember I changed them rarely during WoD.

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Yes through WotLK (level 80) you picked talents and spent points in them. Every couple levels you gained a point to spend... and it felt like a solid progression and you could FEEL the difference.

I do miss:

I actually prefer the current system considering the choices are more meaningful overall. But I agree it was nice to have something to do each level.

[ZazuuPriest]

Yes through WotLK (level 80) you picked talents and spent points in them. Every couple levels you gained a point to spend... and it felt like a solid progression and you could FEEL the difference.

I do miss:

Yeah I miss that too but at the same time everyone went with the same stuff or you were not optimal at all at least now there is still some kind of choice. People will say there is a best talent out of the three in a row now and in some cases that may be true but in others it isnt. For instance people said Divine Star wasnt good, I've proved them wrong more time times than not.

[Rezhial]

Yes through WotLK (level 80) you picked talents and spent points in them. Every couple levels you gained a point to spend... and it felt like a solid progression and you could FEEL the difference.

I do miss:

Damn man.... I fucking miss those.

[Noxina]

Sure the old system was great, but not as great as people try to remember it was. Everyone ended up picking the same talents, and what 70% of them was 1/2/3/4/5% talents that was super boring.

[apelsinjuice]

Yes through WotLK (level 80) you picked talents and spent points in them. Every couple levels you gained a point to spend... and it felt like a solid progression and you could FEEL the difference.

I do miss:

Thats pretty much exactly what the artifact weapons is right now. You progress artifact power, spend on points that give % bonuses or other bonuses to skills, or some new.

[Maudib]

Thats pretty much exactly what the artifact weapons is right now. You progress artifact power, spend on points that give % bonuses or other bonuses to skills, or some new.

Indeed. Which makes you wonder why, if Blizzard did away with the old tree because of lack of choice and flavor, that the BIG feature of Legion is... this?

I like it actually... except for two things:

1) It has no effect on leveling a new character until you get to level 100. This system made leveling a new toon enjoyable and rewarding.

2) It goes away with the next expansion as it is tied to that weapon.

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Sure the old system was great, but not as great as people try to remember it was. Everyone ended up picking the same talents, and what 70% of them was 1/2/3/4/5% talents that was super boring.

You miss the point... the system we have now is a one of three choice... wait 15 levels.. rinse and repeat. Leveling with the old system was maybe I'll spend 1 point in this for now to have the ability, but then spend more points in something else. But I'll come back and max this later.

At max level.. All of the talent systems are boring because you pretty much pick the "best" choices and forget about it. It's the leveling that made the old system shine.

Blizz thinks that being able to continue upgrading your character after max level will be nice.. and it will. But make no mistake... this new system is not about choice... it's about filling an "exp bar" except this bar is filled with AP.