Pandaren Deathknights?

[Florena]

Gul'dan made the first Death Knights. Teron Gorefiend being the first. Gul'dan was the student of Ner'zhul, which should come as no surprise the guy would dabble in necromatic magics. Gul'dans death knights were basically orc spirits put inside human bodies though in this case they were dead then re-animated, so..undead still. Which isn't too far off the process that happened TO Ner'zhul. Only his spirit is inside the iconic helm we all know the Lich King wears. Arthas was the Lich King because he wore the helm of domination. Because it dominates whoever wears it. While it's true Gul'dan's DKs are/were(most were destroyed) not part of the scourge. The ideology behind both versions is quite the same. Immortal life.

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Necromatic spell casters. Raising the dead to fight for them. Not so different from the playable death knights. Definitely not VASTLY different. Especially given both versions of DK do have a focus on their warhorse. I never actually said death knights have been around for a LONG time. We know when Chen comes into the lore and there is some very obvious possibilities for crossover, given the timeline we know of Chen, who is a Pandaren character. Finding a plausible link is not difficult. People were saying the same thing about Tauren Paladins when that was announced. It's not entirely impossible for a Pandaren or multiple Pandarens to have been caught in the path of some scourge lieutenant and turned, that's all I was getting at.

Death knights are not so broad a thing that any old necromancer will fit them. Player DKs come form a very specific place. And while yes, blizzard can do whatever they want, the amount of pandaren running around the world pre MoP were INCREDIBLY FEW. Like, it makes the remaining high elves look heavily populated. While it's POSSIBLE one or two could end up in the hands of the scourge, the idea of there being a sizable number of pandaren caught up in it at the very specific point in time the death knight starting experience takes place isn't likely. Possible but it would be a bigger stretch than Tauren learning a new fighting style.

[Kharmcam]

Death knights are not so broad a thing that any old necromancer will fit them. Player DKs come form a very specific place. And while yes, blizzard can do whatever they want, the amount of pandaren running around the world pre MoP were INCREDIBLY FEW. Like, it makes the remaining high elves look heavily populated. While it's POSSIBLE one or two could end up in the hands of the scourge, the idea of there being a sizable number of pandaren caught up in it at the very specific point in time the death knight starting experience takes place isn't likely. Possible but it would be a bigger stretch than Tauren learning a new fighting style.

I was never saying this is a game-breaking issue for me. I only ever said that it was possible. And yes Death Knight is basically a band-aid term. Also I will say that even though I do think it's completely possible I completely agree that the amount of pandaren caught up in the scourges path would've been so few that it's really not worth mentioning. Either way the Pandaren, as a race, were never caught up in the war with the scourge, even if a few stray explorers got caught in their way.

[Florena]

I was never saying this is a game-breaking issue for me. I only ever said that it was possible. And yes Death Knight is basically a band-aid term. Also I will say that even though I do think it's completely possible I completely agree that the amount of pandaren caught up in the scourges path would've been so few that it's really not worth mentioning. Either way the Pandaren, as a race, were never caught up in the war with the scourge, even if a few stray explorers got caught in their way.

In WoW lore the term death knight has only been used in two contexts. The undead spell casters from WC 2, and the scourge variety. And the PLAYER dks come from a very specific point in time. To say that death knight is a term that could apply to a variety of things isn't really accurate, not in WoW. You have two types really, three if you want to claim the original scourge dks and the archerus ones are a bit different. It's not really a vague term in WoW.

[Deleted]

to make such abomination as new deathnights of any race, not just pandas, there should be existing Ebon Hold and/or some LichKing equivalent raising dead guys like a 4 horsemans or somethinh.


OH W8.
you guys did realise that lore moved forward and its not frozen in time w3 lore for like 12+ years but ingame world and its lore made progress, right?

[Flurryfang]

The Deathknight starting zone is a fixed point in time. It can not be changed and added to. So, sadly, no Pandaren DKs.

[Kharmcam]

Death knight is a name shared by several organizations of powerful necromancers. Our greatest reference of death knights are the playable ones. Which we know from the scourge. Technically ALL dk's in WoW are only scourge dk's. Wc2 dk's were mostly destroyed, it does leave speculation that some had left and maybe they were instructed in the ways of making more but that's all just speculation. However, design, there are total copies of the wc2 dk's in WoW. 2 of the 4 horsemen are casters, but this is also not necessarily evidence of a copy. We know scourge dk's and wc2 dk's love their horses, and death. Baron Rivendare also fits the wc2 description of dk but also very clearly a scourge dk. In the end blizzard has left us to speculate these organizations and possible other dk's. You are correct that dk is not a vague term within WoW. If we're going to get that pedantic though there really is no reason to have any forum posts of this kind.

[nyc81991]

Pretty much, if Pandaren become DKs it will be through new lore, not shoe horning them into old DK lore.

You really think Blizzard would make a new Deathknight starting zone for just Pandaren? That isn't how they work. They would be just like every other DK and they would just say that there were some that got caught and turned.

That is assuming they ever even made that happen. Which I don't have really anything against. I just don't see it happening.

[Florena]

Death knight is a name shared by several organizations of powerful necromancers. Our greatest reference of death knights are the playable ones. Which we know from the scourge. Technically ALL dk's in WoW are only scourge dk's. Wc2 dk's were mostly destroyed, it does leave speculation that some had left and maybe they were instructed in the ways of making more but that's all just speculation. However, design, there are total copies of the wc2 dk's in WoW. 2 of the 4 horsemen are casters, but this is also not necessarily evidence of a copy. We know scourge dk's and wc2 dk's love their horses, and death. Baron Rivendare also fits the wc2 description of dk but also very clearly a scourge dk. In the end blizzard has left us to speculate these organizations and possible other dk's. You are correct that dk is not a vague term within WoW. If we're going to get that pedantic though there really is no reason to have any forum posts of this kind.

What organizations other than the scourge and the now probably all dead wc 2 death knights? Sure it's possible there are other dks out there, but there's been no hint of them in the lore. And if while it's true blizz could introduce new dks that aren't tied to the old horde or scourge (Ebon Blade dks are no longer part of the scourge but have their origins there), if we discuss lore based on what blizz could do in the future then well ANYTHING is possible. It's fine to speculate on what could happen, but unless there ARE other groups out there using the term death knight in WoW lore that I'm unaware of, then we can't reasonably conclude one of them would be turning pandaren into death knights. If there is another group out there using death knights you can point to then I'll cede the point here, but so far as I know there are only the two types. The WC 2 type which were all orcs raised into human corpses and thus irrelevant to pandaren anyway, and the Scourge type.

[Melsiren]

You really think Blizzard would make a new Deathknight starting zone for just Pandaren? That isn't how they work. They would be just like every other DK and they would just say that there were some that got caught and turned.

That is assuming they ever even made that happen. Which I don't have really anything against. I just don't see it happening.

Actually no, I think Blizzard would make a new DK starting zone for the same reason they made 8 new starting zones in Cata.

I mean if you really want to take "Just for Pandaren" out of what I said fine by me. There are multiple reasons why an updated Deathknight starting zone should/could happen, and with the abilities both the Ebonblade, and Bolvar have to make more it's not unbelievable.

[Techno-Druid]

The Deathknight starting zone is a fixed point in time. It can not be changed and added to. So, sadly, no Pandaren DKs.

But it's been established that pandaren from the Wandering Isle have been exploring various parts of Azeroth for years.

Mojo Stormstout in lore has technically been in the Azuremyst Isles since pre-BC.

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to make such abomination as new deathnights of any race, not just pandas, there should be existing Ebon Hold and/or some LichKing equivalent raising dead guys like a 4 horsemans or somethinh.


OH W8.
you guys did realise that lore moved forward and its not frozen in time w3 lore for like 12+ years but ingame world and its lore made progress, right?

And lore-wise pandaren have been visiting various parts of Azeroth from the Wandering Isle for years.

[Flurryfang]

But it's been established that pandaren from the Wandering Isle have been exploring various parts of Azeroth for years.

Mojo Stormstout in lore has technically been in the Azuremyst Isles since pre-BC.

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And lore-wise pandaren have been visiting various parts of Azeroth from the Wandering Isle for years.

But the stormstouts and the other travelers are rare pandas. If the panda DKs were to work, then they needed give a reason, why there is suddenly 100s of pandaren DKs. It would go against the thought of the travelers being few and rare in between.

[Mehrunes]

Gnome DKs are already terrible enough. No thanks.

[Enthralled]

But it's been established that pandaren from the Wandering Isle have been exploring various parts of Azeroth for years.

Mojo Stormstout in lore has technically been in the Azuremyst Isles since pre-BC.

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And lore-wise pandaren have been visiting various parts of Azeroth from the Wandering Isle for years.

That's not under debate.
The fact is that the number of these Wandering Isle Pandaren was miniscule. A few adventuring monks here and there scattered across the entirety of Azeroth is simply not enough lore justification to support the idea of Pandaren DKs. There would have had to have been a large enough, concentrated number of them in the specific area of the northern Eastern Kingdoms at the precise time for this to work, and the lore just doesn't support it.

Blizzard could cook up some utterly ridiculous story that would have to come from the silliest, darkest regions of their asses. That's the only way Pandaren DKs could work, lore-wise: if Blizzard completely invents some new "lore" to force the issue. If they do that, I'll laugh and laugh and roll my eyes -- and then make one. But until then, hell no.

[nyc81991]

Actually no, I think Blizzard would make a new DK starting zone for the same reason they made 8 new starting zones in Cata.

I mean if you really want to take "Just for Pandaren" out of what I said fine by me. There are multiple reasons why an updated Deathknight starting zone should/could happen, and with the abilities both the Ebonblade, and Bolvar have to make more it's not unbelievable.

They still haven't even updated the Blood Elf and Draenei starting zones. As nice as it might be for them to do, they have a track record of not being in favor of doing things like that.

[Melsiren]

They still haven't even updated the Blood Elf and Draenei starting zones. As nice as it might be for them to do, they have a track record of not being in favor of doing things like that.

You act like I don't know that.

The point of this topic is asking if it's possible, it is possible however the only way it would make sense with their addition would be a fully updated DK starting experience. Now discussing if they're going to do that is a completely other discussion in it's self.

[Seifross]

You act like I don't know that.

The point of this topic is asking if it's possible, it is possible however the only way it would make sense with their addition would be a fully updated DK starting experience. Now discussing if they're going to do that is a completely other discussion in it's self.

A topic asking if it's possible strikes me as a bit silly, because the answer is obviously that yes, it is, it just requires new (and very strange) lore. It's natural that the discussion would shift to whether or not they would do it because that's all there is to really discuss.

[Alienshroom]

Its a shit idea imo but honestly the story is already so far gone at this point. Im surprised they just have not said oh fuck it and made every class except druid open to every race. Undead Monks, Tauren Paladins, Gnome Deathknights. Worgen DK all huge lore lols.

[Melsiren]

A topic asking if it's possible strikes me as a bit silly, because the answer is obviously that yes, it is, it just requires new (and very strange) lore. It's natural that the discussion would shift to whether or not they would do it because that's all there is to really discuss.

Not really.


There's a stark difference between if something is possible in existing lore, and if a writer can fuck their story up the ass.

[Deleted]

The amount of fur would be a problem.

[Seifross]

Not really.


There's a stark difference between if something is possible in existing lore, and if a writer can fuck their story up the ass.

It's possible for sure, - whether it's handled well or not is entirely subjective. That's all fine, I just don't see the merit in getting upset about the direction of the topic, since every other angle has basically been covered (yes, it's possible, whether you like the idea or not is up to you).