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  1. #21
    Blizz is the one that created the problem with the excessive pruning. Blizz is trying to hide what they have done with pointless changes like this.

    They made the choice to prune Sub and now they must live with the consequences.

  2. #22
    I am Murloc! Seramore's Avatar
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    Again, you could also argue that having an exclusive bar for only 4-5 abilities is unnecessary as well. I don't see it as a problem and it's a fair solution to remove this said bar after changing or removing the number of abilities that were originally needed to be used while stealthed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz
    MMO champion for example used to be the center of WoW theorycrafting

  3. #23
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Seramore View Post
    I think the biggest problem with this game is that people are unnecessarily slightly attached to things and because of that, don't accept change. Yes, I can see where you guys are coming from and agree that the removal of the stance bar could be considered unnecessary at all, but on the other hand I can't really blame them for removing it either. There are only what, 4-5 abilities that are exclusive to stealth, and only two that you would actually use in a raid? When there are that few abilities which are limited to being stealthed, I kind of agree with the idea of a stealth bar being unnecessary.
    You still can use Stealth bar as Combat, Assassination and Subtlety.

    You cant use Shadow Dance bar as Subtlety. Stealth and Shadow Dance are core elements of Subtlety rotation and everything is saying they are equal, yet you miss bar paging for one of those.

    I would support the change if they removed the bar paging for entire class, why not. Change is not the problem.

    Have you even tried rogue on beta or at least read on the issue, or you are just passing by educating us stupid rogues with your superior opinion?

  4. #24
    I am Murloc! Seramore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurinth View Post
    You still can use Stealth bar as Combat, Assassination and Subtlety.

    You cant use Shadow Dance bar as Subtlety. Stealth and Shadow Dance are core elements of Subtlety rotation and everything is saying they are equal, yet you miss bar paging for one of those.

    I would support the change if they removed the bar paging for entire class, why not. Change is not the problem.

    Have you even tried rogue on beta or at least read on the issue, or you are just passing by educating us stupid rogues with your superior opinion?
    I don't understand why you're getting defensive to the point of attacking me, I'm just looking at this situation from a logical point of view: if a very select few abilities are being exclusively used for Stealth, I can understand and agree with Blizzard's thought process. Sorry that you may not agree with this bud.

    I do not have Beta and I'm only going off of what people are saying in this thread, I thought that they removed the bar in general, not just for Shadow Dance. The fact that this is limited to Shadow Dance however makes even more sense as to why Blizzard is doing this, considering in most normal situations, your limited pool of stealth abilities is even more limited while in Shadow Dance.
    Last edited by Seramore; 2016-06-01 at 10:06 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz
    MMO champion for example used to be the center of WoW theorycrafting

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Seramore View Post
    I don't understand why you're getting defensive to the point of attacking me, I'm just looking at this situation from a logical point of view: if a very select few abilities are being exclusively used for Stealth, I can understand and agree with Blizzard's thought process. Sorry that you may not agree with this bud. I do not have Beta and I'm only going off of what people are saying in this thread, I thought that they removed the bar in general, not just for Shadow Dance.
    Blizzard is the one that removed Garrote from the spec and turned Shadow Dance cool down into shadow dance charges. Initial shadow dance was part of a rotation which is why I suspect the bar was originally removed. But now that Shadow Dance is a charge system instead they need to return the bar back.

  6. #26
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Seramore View Post
    I don't understand why you're getting defensive to the point of attacking me, I'm just looking at this situation from a logical point of view: if a very select few abilities are being exclusively used for Stealth, I can understand and agree with Blizzard's thought process. Sorry that you may not agree with this bud. I do not have Beta and I'm only going off of what people are saying in this thread, I thought that they removed the bar in general, not just for Shadow Dance.
    So you just assume we need your logical point of view, that we are bunch of retards living in a cave waiting for your awakening? As soon as they remove bar paging for all specs we can have that kind of discussion you started. Right now we are stuck with something that is either a) idiotic, or b) idiotic, because you have to separate binds everywhere not using actionbar 1 at all or binding it twice because stealth, or somehow become as good as random mmo-champion posters are and use different bind for dance SS and stealth SS. And this shit is on beta for 3 months already, so pardon me If Im being offensive, because I dont need any more idiots, Im already paying one to break my class.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seramore View Post
    The fact that this is limited to Shadow Dance however makes even more sense as to why Blizzard is doing this, considering in most normal situations, your limited pool of stealth abilities is even more limited while in Shadow Dance.
    Go apply to Blizzard then. Seems like you will fit in.
    Last edited by mmoc2127cc2147; 2016-06-01 at 10:27 PM. Reason: ninja reply to ninja edit

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by elfporn View Post
    If Buff == "Shadow Dance" Then Bar1(Page[Bar7])
    Else Bar1(Page[Bar1])

    There i just created some hanky panky code off the top of my head that would detect SD, page to a stealth bar, and page back when there is no SD.

    Obviously functionality can be restored via an addon. But it shouldn't need to be done because celestalon is being a bitch about it.

    Also note, that code isn't syntax for any specific language.
    Xaryen is correct, otherwise a bar addon could check if you had a proc available and swap bars so you hit the spell, then swap back to your normal bar.

    It's also why ERT's gorefiend soul tracker is unclickable when its dynamic, to allow you to interact it must be static.

  8. #28
    Your action bars are already empty enough as is in Legion, is it really that big of a deal? No, no it's not.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Adoxe View Post
    Your action bars are already empty enough as is in Legion, is it really that big of a deal? No, no it's not.
    We should remove different bars for druid forms too then, and get rid of warrior stance bars.

    Or instead of making dumb changes for no reason, shadow dance can swap to the stealth bar.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Seramore View Post
    I think the biggest problem with this game is that people are unnecessarily slightly attached to things and because of that, don't accept change. Yes, I can see where you guys are coming from and agree that the removal of the stance bar could be considered unnecessary at all, but on the other hand I can't really blame them for removing it either. There are only what, 4-5 abilities that are exclusive to stealth, and only two that you would actually use in a raid? When there are that few abilities which are limited to being stealthed, I kind of agree with the idea of a stealth bar being unnecessary.
    You are totally right. All we want is to be able to macro it like Celestalon said.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Seramore View Post
    I think the biggest problem with this game is that people are unnecessarily slightly attached to things and because of that, don't accept change. Yes, I can see where you guys are coming from and agree that the removal of the stance bar could be considered unnecessary at all, but on the other hand I can't really blame them for removing it either. There are only what, 4-5 abilities that are exclusive to stealth, and only two that you would actually use in a raid? When there are that few abilities which are limited to being stealthed, I kind of agree with the idea of a stealth bar being unnecessary.
    It´s much worse than that, they are not whining about the stealth bar (that is present and working as it always has). They are whining about there not being a "stealth bar" during shadow dance, which is kinda weird. There is only one extra ability used during dance, compared to the normal bar. Makes no sense.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Rikhart View Post
    It´s much worse than that, they are not whining about the stealth bar (that is present and working as it always has). They are whining about there not being a "stealth bar" during shadow dance, which is kinda weird. There is only one extra ability used during dance, compared to the normal bar. Makes no sense.
    if you are a pvper this is not true at all, and that goes for pve too, there are a lot of abilities we use during SD. i can think of 7 just off the top of my head

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Rikhart View Post
    It´s much worse than that, they are not whining about the stealth bar (that is present and working as it always has). They are whining about there not being a "stealth bar" during shadow dance, which is kinda weird. There is only one extra ability used during dance, compared to the normal bar. Makes no sense.
    What about the players new to the game, or new to rogue?

    You learn cheap shot, so you put the stun from stealth on your stealth bar.
    Later, you learn Kidney shot, a stun out of stealth, so you put that in the same spot but on the regular bar.

    Everyone I've ever known who has started a rogue has done that. Same thing for ambush & the main builder they use, same for garrote and rupture. While not optimal, its simple and easy.

    They will level and learn shadow dance, which explicitly states allows you to use stealth abilities, expect their bar to go to the stealth bar, and be confused. So they have to relearn the keys they spent the last however many hours using.

    How does that make any sense?

  14. #34
    Old God Mirishka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xeh.- View Post
    They are completely stupid sometimes.
    Because them disagreeing with players about THEIR game totally makes them stupid.
    Appreciate your time with friends and family while they're here. Don't wait until they're gone to tell them what they mean to you.

  15. #35
    I am Murloc! Seramore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elfporn View Post
    if you are a pvper this is not true at all, and that goes for pve too, there are a lot of abilities we use during SD. i can think of 7 just off the top of my head
    All of which can be used while not in Shadow Dance with the exception of two abilities. You're not sapping or pick pocketing an enemy while using Shadow Dance, and chances are you're not using Cheap Shot unless you're doing PvP. You're only using Garrote and Ambush currently, and will be using Symbols of Death and Shadowstrike in Legion... all of which you can put on your main bar currently or a side bar. You really don't need a bar swap to use these abilities during Shadow Dance.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Roncero View Post
    What about the players new to the game, or new to rogue?

    You learn cheap shot, so you put the stun from stealth on your stealth bar.
    Later, you learn Kidney shot, a stun out of stealth, so you put that in the same spot but on the regular bar.

    Everyone I've ever known who has started a rogue has done that. Same thing for ambush & the main builder they use, same for garrote and rupture. While not optimal, its simple and easy.

    They will level and learn shadow dance, which explicitly states allows you to use stealth abilities, expect their bar to go to the stealth bar, and be confused. So they have to relearn the keys they spent the last however many hours using.

    How does that make any sense?
    I think you're dumbing down the new player base way too much. It really won't be that confusing.
    Last edited by Seramore; 2016-06-02 at 01:31 AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz
    MMO champion for example used to be the center of WoW theorycrafting

  16. #36
    I could see a compromise working, get rid of the bar but keep the stance. Sort of like how druid caster/travel/boomkin share a bar but are 3 different stances. That way /use [stealth] macros would still work.

    It really is kind of silly to have a whole bar for four abilities, but I do see the issue with shadow dance not putting you in the stealth stance.
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  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Seramore View Post
    All of which can be used while not in Shadow Dance with the exception of two abilities. You're not sapping or pick pocketing an enemy while using Shadow Dance, and chances are you're not using Cheap Shot unless you're doing PvP. You're only using Garrote and Ambush currently, and will be using Symbols of Death and Shadowstrike in Legion... all of which you can put on your main bar currently or a side bar. You really don't need a bar swap to use these abilities during Shadow Dance.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I think you're dumbing down the new player base way too much. It really won't be that confusing.
    the point is that we have it for stealth but not SD. when SD is a stealth effect, we should get the bar we setup for stealth.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Seramore View Post
    You're not sapping while using Shadow Dance
    Wrong, its a staple in pvp.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seramore View Post
    chances are you're not using Cheap Shot unless you're doing PvP
    Yeah because no one stuns mobs out in the world or that annoying trash pack in a dungeon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seramore View Post
    I think you're dumbing down the new player base way too much. It really won't be that confusing.
    I think you're overestimating the average wow player, let alone new player.

  19. #39
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Seramore View Post
    All of which can be used while not in Shadow Dance with the exception of two abilities. You're not sapping or pick pocketing an enemy while using Shadow Dance, and chances are you're not using Cheap Shot unless you're doing PvP. You're only using Garrote and Ambush currently, and will be using Symbols of Death and Shadowstrike in Legion... all of which you can put on your main bar currently or a side bar. You really don't need a bar swap to use these abilities during Shadow Dance.

    I think you're dumbing down the new player base way too much. It really won't be that confusing.
    With each post you are just showing how you have no clue about rogue, why keep posting? You are wrong, go away. Just because you are dumb enough to not see an issue, doesnt mean its not there. Is this some trauma from the past? Did some rogue outplay you?

    All of people argumenting with "but you have enough space on your bars!!!" are just embarassing themselves. That is not the issue. If you would actually be good at the game you would quickly see the issue, because you have basic understanding how human brain works and how people get good at the game. Clearly you are not. You are also wrong in your assumption that Blizzard knows what they are doing, because its their game, right? Well sometimes they do not, but this is really hard to admit for inexperienced people, because they usually suffer from denial.

  20. #40
    This is one of the instances where Blizz is wrong, because they don't really play Rogues.

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