[Legion] Discipline Priest Discussion

[Deleted]

Does Twist of Fate proc on damage also, or just healing for Disc? Guessing only on heals since it would be probably too strong if damage could proc it. Does that row just default to PI again? With ToF probably seeing use in raid fights with high damage?

Also, approximately, how far in are you with the artifact levels once you've gotten to 110 and have done enough normals to que for HC dungeons? Just want to have a rough idea of the progression speed so far.

[Deleted]

Does Twist of Fate proc on damage also, or just healing for Disc? Guessing only on heals since it would be probably too strong if damage could proc it. Does that row just default to PI again? With ToF probably seeing use in raid fights with high damage?

Also, approximately, how far in are you with the artifact levels once you've gotten to 110 and have done enough normals to que for HC dungeons? Just want to have a rough idea of the progression speed so far.

just healing

aprox. 2 traits behind your first big maybe.

[Deleted]

Thank you potta for your answer :-)

Mmochamp doesn't like me either, so i will have to wait for the prepatch.
And then spamming some endless pg and hopefully my priest be my main again (hated the chakra system and i rly hated the cow playstyle) couldn't passed wave 32 with my disc :/ was way easier with my monk and the others.

[Potta]

Grace is basically an I-WIN button for dungeons. It's boring to use, sure, but it's not like PtW is helping your healing much if your concern is the tank dying. If you're having trouble in dungeons and not using Grace just because you think it's boring, I'm not really sure what to tell you. It's not that there's some magical way to make Atonement heal up a tank that's taking 10% of his health in damage every second and using Grace is some kind of lazy fix, it's just that there is absolutely no other way to continually drop 1000% Spellpower bombs on a single target aside from taking Grace and using Shadow Mend. It's like 2-3 times the healing on a single target that spamming Smite is, of course you fall behind if you're not using that.

I'm not going to refuse to take Grace if I absolutely have to. Over the course of the beta, without having talented it at all, my opinion on it has shifted from, "This is a trap, I hate it" to "I'm glad I have this to fall back on in case I need it". In an ideal world, I'd never have to use it, because it is boring, and goes against the playstyle of Disc, which is a lot of fun. I believed that my rough period would be scaled out of, and that proved to be true. I haven't got to Mythics or even Heroics yet though, so I have no idea if it'll be essential there. I'm hoping not, but if it is, I'll grudgingly take it.

[Nolifer]

Hello everyone :-)

Tell me more about mythic plus.

Several streamers said disc will suck there and all the others are way stronger in the five man content.

What's your opinion?

Well, I have tested several healing specs in Mythic+ and Disc is by far the worst. It just has terrible mechanics for solo healing that makes it awkward and unreliable.

Blizzard might say Disc is the most complex specialization, but that isn't really true, it has the most active "rotation" but that's about it. But you aren't rewarded for what they claim is "complexity" in any way, it's much better to go with a Resto Druid or MW (haven't tested Shaman and Paladin) in every situation.

I give it one expansion until Atonement mechanic is gone, because spending half your time applying a buff isn't engaging gameplay in anyway.

[Appatastic]

I'm not going to refuse to take Grace if I absolutely have to. Over the course of the beta, without having talented it at all, my opinion on it has shifted from, "This is a trap, I hate it" to "I'm glad I have this to fall back on in case I need it". In an ideal world, I'd never have to use it, because it is boring, and goes against the playstyle of Disc, which is a lot of fun. I believed that my rough period would be scaled out of, and that proved to be true. I haven't got to Mythics or even Heroics yet though, so I have no idea if it'll be essential there. I'm hoping not, but if it is, I'll grudgingly take it.

As far as heroics/mythics, I usually roll with it just because the chance of randoming a less than optimal tank is a little high right now (a little less with mythic). Tanks are easily carried through normal and even heroic by healers having to spam single target heals to make up for their lack of mitigation or cd usage. The dungeon journal even states most of the time when an ability needs to be addressed by mitigation, but alas it doesn't help and you find yourself shadowmend spamming

[Totaltotemic]

I'm not going to refuse to take Grace if I absolutely have to. Over the course of the beta, without having talented it at all, my opinion on it has shifted from, "This is a trap, I hate it" to "I'm glad I have this to fall back on in case I need it". In an ideal world, I'd never have to use it, because it is boring, and goes against the playstyle of Disc, which is a lot of fun. I believed that my rough period would be scaled out of, and that proved to be true. I haven't got to Mythics or even Heroics yet though, so I have no idea if it'll be essential there. I'm hoping not, but if it is, I'll grudgingly take it.

I don't mean to say you always have to use Grace. For example, I never use it in Heroics anymore, but I'm also at 836 ilvl right now which means I far outgear them and can get away with taking a talent that's more DPS just for the sake of having more DPS and being more fun.

The thing with Legion 5 mans though is that you never truly outgear 5 mans in general... ever. If you can do Normals without Grace and you're at 110 (obviously before that you probably don't even need Grace at all), then you should be doing Heroics. If you can do Heroics without Grace, you should be doing Mythics (unless you're locked for the week which is currently impossible because Violet Hold has no lockout for some strange reason). If you can do Mythics without Grace, then you should be doing Mythic level 2, and so on and so on.

It's not like previous expansions where something being good in 5 mans eventually becomes irrelevant.

[Potta]

I don't mean to say you always have to use Grace. For example, I never use it in Heroics anymore, but I'm also at 836 ilvl right now which means I far outgear them and can get away with taking a talent that's more DPS just for the sake of having more DPS and being more fun.

The thing with Legion 5 mans though is that you never truly outgear 5 mans in general... ever. If you can do Normals without Grace and you're at 110 (obviously before that you probably don't even need Grace at all), then you should be doing Heroics. If you can do Heroics without Grace, you should be doing Mythics (unless you're locked for the week which is currently impossible because Violet Hold has no lockout for some strange reason). If you can do Mythics without Grace, then you should be doing Mythic level 2, and so on and so on.

It's not like previous expansions where something being good in 5 mans eventually becomes irrelevant.

I see your reasoning here, but it carries with it the assumption that Grace is always better in 5 mans in every possible scenario that could cause problems. I will concede without question that if you're dealing with a single target, and having problems keeping specifically the tank alive, Grace is the better choice. But equally well, I can easily imagine scenarios where keeping the tank up isn't the problem in progressing. It could be in eeking out enough DPS before an enrage. It could be killing adds in time. It could be meeting the timer. It could be difficulty with keeping the group alive, rather than the tank. I would say that for any of these, PtW is at least as good as Grace, and often better. It's obviously better for DPS, but for group healing I believe it will also be superior. Against more than one target, the interaction with Penance frees up a GCD (that you otherwise might not have spent multidotting SWP) to give you what is effectively another HoT on everyone with Atonement. That's not only more tank healing (which I concede, doesn't measure up to Grace'd Shadowmend spam), but more group healing too; and when it comes to group healing, I would estimate that Disc doesn't have the tools to exploit Grace and let it overcome the opportunity cost of PtW spreading for free.

I feel like the decision point is being characterized as: Grace for HPS, PtW for DPS/Fun. That lacks far too much nuance to be useful. PtW has a host of HPS advantages of its own, and even if it doesn't measure up to Grace in the specific scenario that you're spamming Shadowmend on the tank against a single target, it should not be hard to envisage ones where PtW has the HPS advantage. Those advantages come from:

1. PtW does 520% SP compared to SWP at 280% SP. After artifact traits, PtW will be doing about twice as much damage/healing as SWP.
2. PtW spreads for free on Penance. An HPS and HPM benefit on more than one target.
3. The upfront damage/healing of PtW is ~3 times greater than that of SWP. In the situation where a tank is hovering low, you might not be able to spare the GCD to refresh SWP, whereas you could with PtW.
4. PtW lasts 20 seconds compared to SWP at 14 seconds. Given the assumption that keeping either up is important for both tank and background group healing, you'll have to spend more time refreshing SWP than you will PtW. Those are GCDs taken away from tank healing.
5. PtW scales better than Grace. As unavoidable mastery on gear increases throughout the expansion, it push the scale towards PtW over time.

[Totaltotemic]

None of those problems are the problems that were being described. My point was that complaining about being able to keep people up in dungeons while simultaneously not using the talent that best helps keep people alive that are taking massive damage is ridiculous.

Also your facts on PtW are pretty wrong. SW:P has been back to 18 seconds for Disc for a few builds now. You also use Shadow Mend on everybody, not just the tank when you do content that is actually difficult for your item level.

[Sxq]

Shadow mend with Grace seems to actually be pretty efficient if the target is taking damage. It's the same mana cost as flash heal for a holy priest, but if the whole decay part is consumed then it's 910% compared to 500% heal. Plus the artifact traits to increase its healing and the chance of not having the decay part. Hard to argue against that for the purpose of tank healing or dungeon healing early in the expansion where everyone gets rekt.

[Deleted]

Not only early in the expansion. I just healed a Mythic+6 today as a disc. That is the level tanks get seriously rekt. And Shadow Mend is highly capable of keeping your group alive at that point. The only issue is being mana. You drain so fast that the boss must not survive for very long.

[Rilas13]

I give it one expansion until Atonement mechanic is gone, because spending half your time applying a buff isn't engaging game play in anyway.

I disagree, I find it much more enthralling then healing with some other specs. It's fine that you don't enjoy it though, its not for everyone. Which is what the devs were on about in their last post of the beta forums. You don't have to have the highest HPS in 5 mans for the spec in itself to be rewarding for some players seeking this form of gameplay.

Game Designer
Thanks for all the feedback. To revisit something that we touched on back at Blizzcon, but perhaps haven't talked about since then: Discipline is the most complex healer to play in 7.0 by a wide margin, and is possibly the most advanced core rotation of any spec. We know this and are generally okay with it, even though we still want to manage it within reason. It is to some extent inevitable due to the mixture of DPS- and heal-type targeting that Disc has to frequently swap between, something that no other spec asks of you outside of specific talents. Also, Disc is intentionally positioned against Holy, which is one of the more accessible healers in 7.0.

Feedback from all players is still very useful for looking at potential skill-floor issues, but 7.0 Discipline is intended to be something you opt into if you are seeking out the mixed DPS/heal gameplay that it's built around.

[Djriff]

Slight buff to disc today.

•Atonement Plea, Power Word: Shield, Shadow Mend, and Power Word: Radiance also apply Atonement to your target for 15 sec. When you deal spell damage, you instantly heal all targets affected by Atonement for 40% 40.1% of the damage done. Priest - Discipline Spec.
•Mastery: Absolution Increases the healing transferred through Atonement by 11.2%. Priest - Discipline Spec. 11.2.1%. Priest - Discipline Spec.

[Saiyoran]

11.2.1% What does that even mean?

[Totaltotemic]

11.2.1% What does that even mean?

It means it's a tooltip error and nothing actually changed.

[lcs]

It means it's a tooltip error and nothing actually changed.

I checked in game, the mastery has been buffed by .1% (I had 34% mastery, of which 34.1 is additionally transferred to atonement).

Atonement itself was also buffed by .1%, so in total there is a .2% buff to atonement healing.

[Totaltotemic]

I checked in game, the mastery has been buffed by .1% (I had 34% mastery, of which 34.1 is additionally transferred to atonement).

Atonement itself was also buffed by .1%, so in total there is a .2% buff to atonement healing.

Or is it a tooltip issue or some weird rounding issue? Either way, .2% is wholly irrelevant and there would never be an intentional developer change of that small that was supposed to affect some kind of balance. You have to do some serious mental gymnastics to think this was some kind of balance-related change.

[Nolifer]

I disagree, I find it much more enthralling then healing with some other specs. It's fine that you don't enjoy it though, its not for everyone. Which is what the devs were on about in their last post of the beta forums. You don't have to have the highest HPS in 5 mans for the spec in itself to be rewarding for some players seeking this form of gameplay.

Game Designer
Thanks for all the feedback. To revisit something that we touched on back at Blizzcon, but perhaps haven't talked about since then: Discipline is the most complex healer to play in 7.0 by a wide margin, and is possibly the most advanced core rotation of any spec. We know this and are generally okay with it, even though we still want to manage it within reason. It is to some extent inevitable due to the mixture of DPS- and heal-type targeting that Disc has to frequently swap between, something that no other spec asks of you outside of specific talents. Also, Disc is intentionally positioned against Holy, which is one of the more accessible healers in 7.0.

Feedback from all players is still very useful for looking at potential skill-floor issues, but 7.0 Discipline is intended to be something you opt into if you are seeking out the mixed DPS/heal gameplay that it's built around.

But I am 'seeking out the mixed DPS/heal gameplay" but I don't think Atonement buffing is a good implementation of this system, I don't really raid so I'm mostly focused on arena and now Mythic+ and I just can't see Disc ever being competitive in either compared to practically any other healer. It's actually a complete abomination.

[Totaltotemic]

But I am 'seeking out the mixed DPS/heal gameplay" but I don't think Atonement buffing is a good implementation of this system, I don't really raid so I'm mostly focused on arena and now Mythic+ and I just can't see Disc ever being competitive in either compared to practically any other healer. It's actually a complete abomination.

Do you have any actual reasons for that or do you just dislike it just to be edgy?

[Rilas13]

@Nolifer, how would you prefer to have the mixed DPS/heal gameplay then? I in no way see it as an abomination of a spec, it can function very well.