What is consciousness and can computers become conscious?

[Deleted]

As I hinted earlier, this is where we run into troubles of definitions. If "consciousness" is just awareness that one exists, then sure, lots of animals have it. Plenty of animals can even recognize themselves in a mirror, which is a big step up in this respect. I'd argue that there's one final step which I'm not even convinced great apes have passed, which is questioning why you exist, a question which frames humanity's relatively unique desire to improve our collective lot. You can find great apes and such who want to make things better for themselves, and even have empathy for others, but they still fall short of that final step. Not that I'm arguing that it can't be replicated; I just don't think it has been, in another species.

But I also freely admit that this isn't a universally-accepted interpretation of what "consciousness" means.

The only animal that has only asked an existential question was Alex the bird (or it was just very lucky timing, but still):

Alex had a vocabulary of over 100 words,[14] but was exceptional in that he appeared to have understanding of what he said. For example, when Alex was shown an object and was asked about its shape, color, or material, he could label it correctly.[12] He could describe a key as a key no matter what its size or color, and could determine how the key was different from others.[5] Looking at a mirror, he said "what color", and learned "grey" after being told "grey" six times.[15] This either made him the first and only non-human animal to have ever asked an existential question (apes who have been trained to use sign-language have so far failed to ever ask a single question), or his parroting the question phrase was very luckily situated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_%...ccomplishments

I would say that animals have a consciousness, it might not be as sophisticated as humans have, but they surely have one. I think the big difference between us and them is that we have a greater capacity to learn and understand new concepts. Humans aren't born with a full blown consciousness either, the human consciousness might be more keen when born, but they still have to learn a lot of concepts before we call it a human consciousness.

[Deleted]

I find it to be quite dreadful, but I'd expect consciousness to occure if we somehow managed to build an "electronic" brain.

On the other hand, i'm not sure anyone but me is actually conscious and I have no way to know it, so, even if a machine would seem to be conscious, that would remain impossible to ascertain.

[Pua]

As someone who's been studying and practicing Witchcraft for over 22 years, it's something I've wrestled with a few times. My love of and respect for animals means that I've often wondered how they and I differ. It's not the ability to communicate, or to reason; these aspects aren't exclusive to humans, and are easily replicable in computers.

For me, the concept that matters is divinity.

Similar to what @Endus mentions, the contemplation of why we're here, what we're meant to do, and the feeling that there's something "else" would seem to define consciousness in a way not repeated by other species or organisms. It's a natural curiousity, something born of a deeper connection, that promotes it. Even in films like Terminator 2, they talk about computers becoming aware - which is not the same as awake.

Now, by divinity, I don't mean a religious figurehead. For me, divinity is the "source" of creation and the relationship I have with that source. It's a deeply personal thing, and is subtly different for most of us. Were someone to contemplate the nature of the universe, and their relationship within that, this is equally an aspect of divinity and a personal relationship that can inspire.

Maybe inspiration is another aspect of consciousness?

Divinity and inspiration.

Looks good to me.

On the other hand, i'm not sure anyone but me is actually conscious and I have no way to know it, so, even if a machine would seem to be conscious, that would remain impossible to ascertain.

That was the conclusion of Rene Descarte. Ultimately, after all these years, he's still right.

[Deleted]

Slightly relevant

https://youtu.be/wfYbgdo8e-8



TLDR: free will, sentience, "soul" are hard concepts to justify when we see how physical and deterministic our consciousness really is

[Independent voter]

Slightly relevant

https://youtu.be/wfYbgdo8e-8



TLDR: free will, sentience, "soul" are hard concepts to justify when we see how physical and deterministic our consciousness really is

Meh, you damage a meatputer and it doesn't function correctly, that's not surprising. It would be more surprising if you damaged it and nothing happened.

To the author of the video the sense of self is something mystical or religious. To a lot of us hoping for an AI breakthrough we're hoping it isn't mystical, just the output of the meatputer.

[Ghostpanther]

They don't need to know what a mirror is in order to pass the test. All they need to know is that when they move their body the image they're looking at will also move and intelligence has very little to do with it.

The European Magpi, a bird, is able to pass the test. I highly doubt a bird knows what a mirror is.

I will admit that the mirror test may be biased against dogs as dogs rely more scent than sight, but as it stands the mirror test is the best we have for measuring self-awareness.

Having had dogs for years, I think they seem to understand the image of them in a mirror does not deserve their attention. They will watch TV and our one dog will get alert and stare at the TV every time the introduction scene with the helicopter and music is playing on MASH. Something about it. Maybe the sound of the helicopter or the music.?

And we had this cardinal one time who for weeks would battle his image at one of our windows. The dumb shit did not seem to understand he was fighting his own reflection. lol.

[Deleted]

Never have there been so many people in one room that have never gotten laid.

Except every time at Blizzcon

[Shadowferal]

Having had dogs for years, I think they seem to understand the image of them in a mirror does not deserve their attention. They will watch TV and our one dog will get alert and stare at the TV every time the introduction scene with the helicopter and music is playing on MASH. Something about it. Maybe the sound of the helicopter or the music.?

And we had this cardinal one time who for weeks would battle his image at one of our windows. The dumb shit did not seem to understand he was fighting his own reflection. lol.

It's when the dog is staring at what seems to be "nothing" that I wonder.

[Dezerte]

Dogs and rats are not aware of themselves, neither pass the mirror test.

Maybe they just don't give a fuck what they look like.

[Ghostpanther]

It's when the dog is staring at what seems to be "nothing" that I wonder.

Hehe. Well. some believe they can see things we can not. Same with cats.

[Tyrianth]

But Eurasian magpies and some ants are? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_test

I think you should re-evaluate the significance of that test.

I'll let the people who specialize in neuroscience and psychology determine the significance of the test.

Having had dogs for years, I think they seem to understand the image of them in a mirror does not deserve their attention. They will watch TV and our one dog will get alert and stare at the TV every time the introduction scene with the helicopter and music is playing on MASH. Something about it. Maybe the sound of the helicopter or the music.?

And we had this cardinal one time who for weeks would battle his image at one of our windows. The dumb shit did not seem to understand he was fighting his own reflection. lol.

I'm not sure I get your point? What does being able to watch TV have to do with their capability of self-awareness?

- - - Updated - - -

A body part is a concept we have for different "parts" and appendages in our organism that we see as "I have an arm". "Arm" is a concept.

Some animals may have very rough concepts they need to survive, others may not.

Crows Understand Analogies
What birds can teach us about animal intelligence
http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...and-analogies/



We just test things is a very particular way that some animals may not "get" because they do not have that concept at all. But that does not mean they are not "self-aware".

A body part is not a concept, a concept is an abstract idea, and there is nothing abstract about your body. Every animal has concepts they need to survive, those are called natural instincts, but self-awareness is something that is not needed to survive for the vast majority of species. All they need are cravings or urges to do something. I just don't how you can say that dogs are self aware when all evidence points to the contrary.

[Forogil]

I'll let the people who specialize in neuroscience and psychology determine the significance of the test.

And I don't see anything suggesting that the test is that important according to them. Just that they don't have any better idea.

One criticism regarding dogs is that they don't use vision - similarly as human babies with less exposure to reflecting surfaces regularly fail it as well.
Is a blind man not self-conscious?

I just don't how you can say that dogs are self aware when all evidence points to the contrary.

Except that the evidence against dogs is sketchy at best.

However, if the mirror test is the sign of self-consciousness it would also mean that some robots are self-conscious - since the last decade (couldn't find earliest reference though):
http://s2is.org/Issues/v1/n4/papers/paper4.pdf

[Dezerte]

Somewhat related, maybe you've already seen them.