[Enhancement] Future Legion Resources

[heavenscalamity]

New build, talents jumbled now.

Awesome awesome changes. AOE tier, 100 tier has some fun. So great.

[Darleth]

For those wondering...

Old Tree:



New Tree:

[miffy23]

Seems to be lot more thematically consistent per tier now, although probably a third of the talents right now don't seem to be realistically viable in any way, still.

[nazrakin]

Now we just need lunge to become baseline and replace it with some group utility and everything will make perfect sense.

[miffy23]

Now we just need lunge to become baseline and replace it with some group utility and everything will make perfect sense.

Wtb Guidance.

[Darleth]

They've basically given us different tiers. Buff Tier (L60 Talents), Passive Tier (L75), AoE Tier (90) and moved landslide over to level 100, where we now have to choose between damage increase (Ascendance), buff management talent (Landslide) and another debuff management talent (Earthen Spike).

I personally think for level 60 talents that kills hailstorm off completely currently, unless it gets buffed. It just cant compete against ancestral swiftness imo. The lvl75 talents are where I'm unsure between Tempest and Empowered Stormlash, as I've never tested stormlash that much. Lvl 90, imo, gives us some more flexibility for certain fights (Crashing Storm for Cleave/stationary AoE), Fury of Air for AoE where movement is involved and well.. then there is sundering...

For lvl 100 its going to be hard... do you want 20% extra AP, some burst damage via ascendance, or a general damage increase every 20 seconds with earthen spike? That stuff will need some testing.

Edit: Also, build is very unstable. Getting disconnected every 5 minutes currently, cant really test stuff.

[heavenscalamity]

They've basically given us different tiers. Buff Tier (L60 Talents), Passive Tier (L75), AoE Tier (90) and moved landslide over to level 100, where we now have to choose between damage increase (Ascendance), buff management talent (Landslide) and another debuff management talent (Earthen Spike).

I personally think for level 60 talents that kills hailstorm off completely currently, unless it gets buffed. It just cant compete against ancestral swiftness imo. The lvl75 talents are where I'm unsure between Tempest and Empowered Stormlash, as I've never tested stormlash that much. Lvl 90, imo, gives us some more flexibility for certain fights (Crashing Storm for Cleave/stationary AoE), Fury of Air for AoE where movement is involved and well.. then there is sundering...

For lvl 100 its going to be hard... do you want 20% extra AP, some burst damage via ascendance, or a general damage increase every 20 seconds with earthen spike? That stuff will need some testing.

Edit: Also, build is very unstable. Getting disconnected every 5 minutes currently, cant really test stuff.

I think swiftness/Tempest/CS/Landslide is the clear baseline winner right now.

And yeah the instability isn't fixed, two builds in a row of potentially unplayable-ness. It's unfortunate.

[Darleth]

I think swiftness/Tempest/CS/Landslide is the clear baseline winner right now.

And yeah the instability isn't fixed, two builds in a row of potentially unplayable-ness. It's unfortunate.

That is what I'm currently going for aswell. Cant say for certain though unless more testing is done and since that is currently impossible with the disconnects.. well, have to wait I guess.

[nazrakin]

They've basically given us different tiers. Buff Tier (L60 Talents), Passive Tier (L75), AoE Tier (90) and moved landslide over to level 100, where we now have to choose between damage increase (Ascendance), buff management talent (Landslide) and another debuff management talent (Earthen Spike).

I personally think for level 60 talents that kills hailstorm off completely currently, unless it gets buffed. It just cant compete against ancestral swiftness imo. The lvl75 talents are where I'm unsure between Tempest and Empowered Stormlash, as I've never tested stormlash that much. Lvl 90, imo, gives us some more flexibility for certain fights (Crashing Storm for Cleave/stationary AoE), Fury of Air for AoE where movement is involved and well.. then there is sundering...

For lvl 100 its going to be hard... do you want 20% extra AP, some burst damage via ascendance, or a general damage increase every 20 seconds with earthen spike? That stuff will need some testing.

Edit: Also, build is very unstable. Getting disconnected every 5 minutes currently, cant really test stuff.

It'll be interesting to see how things pan out once they start some real tuning passes. Logically, it seems to me that active skills such as Hailstorm, Sundering, ES/Asc, Overcharge should all be tuned slightly higher relative to everything else on those rows since they require a bit more management.

[heavenscalamity]

It'll be interesting to see how things pan out once they start some real tuning passes. Logically, it seems to me that active skills such as Hailstorm, Sundering, ES/Asc, Overcharge should all be tuned slightly higher relative to everything else on those rows since they require a bit more management.

Hailstorm is so undertuned and doesn't feel good to use, just seems bad all around.

[nazrakin]

Hailstorm is so undertuned and doesn't feel good to use, just seems bad all around.

Yeah it needs a pretty massive buff. As things are right now, I think the following probably needs to happen during tuning:

t15: Boulderfist has to get curbstomped, windsong needs a buff.
t60: LS and Hailstorm both need big buffs.
t75: Overcharge needs a buff,
t90: Sundering + FoA needs a buffs.
t100: Landslide probabl needs a nerf but since its our lvl 100 talent Id rather see Asc/ES and get big buffs.

[Darleth]

Yeah it needs a pretty massive buff. As things are right now, I think the following probably needs to happen during tuning:

t15: Boulderfist has to get curbstomped, windsong needs a buff.
t60: LS and Hailstorm both need big buffs.
t75: Overcharge needs a buff,
t90: Sundering + FoA needs a buffs.
t100: Landslide probabl needs a nerf but since its our lvl 100 talent Id rather see Asc/ES and get big buffs.

Windsong needs to scale with AP instead of SP and a overall damage increase. For a 45 sec CD skill it just doesnt do enough.

Dunno how you could make LS good, since it deals damage on both, being hit and dealing damage... it would need a good enough number to not make it too strong.

HS I think needs about 3k damage more on the auto since it deals about 1% weapon damage as frost damage if i'm not mistaken... it could scale a bit higher to make it more even.

Haven't tested Overcharge. Cant comment on that. Maybe buffing it to 2000% or even 2500% may make it better, especially for pvp where we have problems with sticking on our target.

Sundering is okay in terms of damage output. Its burst-aoe overall, for priority adds like we had with imps on xhul/mannoroth, it is good enough imo. It needs to just STUN the target instead of knocking targets aside and its good.

Fury of Air has its thing for both PvP and PvE... maybe a slight % increase would be fine.

How would you buff Asc? Its hard to do in its current iteration imo. Increasing the Maelstrom gain would make us probably waste maelstrom power, especially when having wolves and doom winds active, where we are already wasting some of because the build up is too good. Maybe giving us back the reset on Storm Strike would be good, or increasing the procc chance of stormbringer or something while active... those are just ideas I'm having in my head.

ES just needs a slight damage increase or its maelstrom cost removed, otherwise it would be just too hard to balance the debuff + overall damage gain etc.

Those are just my opinions. We also have no clue how good some of the talents will be after getting more traits and better gear.

[Christhammer]

Anyone else bothered that there are 2 Artifact traits (atleast 1) that's worthless if you pick Boulderfist?

"Gathering of the Maelstrom" generates more maelstrom from Rockbiter
"Weapons of the elements" increses damage by Rockbiter, Flametongue and Frostbrand

None of these have any effect if you pick Boulderfist. Right now i'm totally ignoring "Gathering..." and going for traits around it.

[Darleth]

Anyone else bothered that there are 2 Artifact traits (atleast 1) that's worthless if you pick Boulderfist?

"Gathering of the Maelstrom" generates more maelstrom from Rockbiter
"Weapons of the elements" increses damage by Rockbiter, Flametongue and Frostbrand

None of these have any effect if you pick Boulderfist. Right now i'm totally ignoring "Gathering..." and going for traits around it.

Are you sure they are not affecting Boulderfist? Sounds more like a bug to me since Boulderfist is just a replacement for it and it should absolutely gain the % damage of those talents.

[Nitwit]

Windsong needs to scale with AP instead of SP

Our SP is a function of our AP (1.3*AP), so I don't see what this would be trying to accomplish.

[miffy23]

Anyone else bothered that there are 2 Artifact traits (atleast 1) that's worthless if you pick Boulderfist?

"Gathering of the Maelstrom" generates more maelstrom from Rockbiter
"Weapons of the elements" increses damage by Rockbiter, Flametongue and Frostbrand

None of these have any effect if you pick Boulderfist. Right now i'm totally ignoring "Gathering..." and going for traits around it.

Pretty sure they do affect Boulderfist, if they currently don't it's definitely a bug. Artifact traits won't be made useless by talent choices.

[Deleted]

Update: Some talents were shuffled around in this build, but they will be going back to where they were in the next build

Seems like they want to only test different talents. Like there is no point to take other talent in a row but Landslide. 99% beta testers use this and they want to see how other talents work in a tier. Unfortunately most of them might be reverted.

[Christhammer]

Are you sure they are not affecting Boulderfist? Sounds more like a bug to me since Boulderfist is just a replacement for it and it should absolutely gain the % damage of those talents.

Yes i am. "Gathering.." does not work with Boulderfist. Still 25 maelstrom
"Weapons..." does not increse damage. I have beta and i have tried it out.

[Darleth]

Our SP is a function of our AP (1.3*AP), so I don't see what this would be trying to accomplish.

More of a personal thing. I like AP Scaling more than SP scaling. Doesn't change the fact that its too low on even that scaling and needs a buff in that regard.

Seems like they want to only test different talents. Like there is no point to take other talent in a row but Landslide. 99% beta testers use this and they want to see how other talents work in a tier. Unfortunately most of them might be reverted.

Well, they basically failed to make any other talent choices attractive enough to be even considered picking for most of the rows in our cases. I did hear that some talents were changed around that shouldn't have been changed at all, but that was mostly for DKs apparently.
@Christhammer
Yeah, sounds like a bug for me if thats the case. It should be affected by both.

[nazrakin]

Windsong needs to scale with AP instead of SP and a overall damage increase. For a 45 sec CD skill it just doesnt do enough.

Dunno how you could make LS good, since it deals damage on both, being hit and dealing damage... it would need a good enough number to not make it too strong.

HS I think needs about 3k damage more on the auto since it deals about 1% weapon damage as frost damage if i'm not mistaken... it could scale a bit higher to make it more even.

Haven't tested Overcharge. Cant comment on that. Maybe buffing it to 2000% or even 2500% may make it better, especially for pvp where we have problems with sticking on our target.

Sundering is okay in terms of damage output. Its burst-aoe overall, for priority adds like we had with imps on xhul/mannoroth, it is good enough imo. It needs to just STUN the target instead of knocking targets aside and its good.

Fury of Air has its thing for both PvP and PvE... maybe a slight % increase would be fine.

How would you buff Asc? Its hard to do in its current iteration imo. Increasing the Maelstrom gain would make us probably waste maelstrom power, especially when having wolves and doom winds active, where we are already wasting some of because the build up is too good. Maybe giving us back the reset on Storm Strike would be good, or increasing the procc chance of stormbringer or something while active... those are just ideas I'm having in my head.

ES just needs a slight damage increase or its maelstrom cost removed, otherwise it would be just too hard to balance the debuff + overall damage gain etc.

Those are just my opinions. We also have no clue how good some of the talents will be after getting more traits and better gear.

- For WS Id like to see them increase uptime on the buff by bringing the CD down a bit.

- Instead of a direct dmg buff, I think one way to make Ls interesting is to also have it increase the MP that way it really changes up the rotion and gives us an option to deal with all the wasted mp.

- Both the frostbrand and hailstorm portions of it could stand to be beefed up. Maybe have the talent also increase frostband to 150%, hailstorm to 30%.

- Sundering is ok damage wise but I do think its mp and cd could stand to come down a bit.

- Yeah, getting Asc where it needs to be will likely require redesigning some aspects of it. If its going to compete with Landslide then ES is going to need a really big buff. Right now Landslide would be ahead by a landslide. 50% uptime on 10% phys/nature on one target just doesn't come close to 100% up time on 20% more AP that is a huge buff to all damage and all targets, the direct dmg part of ES (which is indirectly nerfed now that it cant benefit from Landslide) isnt going to make up for it either.