Mcree nerf

[Deleted]

0 escape... dodge roll? It's not crazy good but it can definitely save your life if you roll behind cover and find a health pack.

Most of the time dodge roll is used for double FtH. Rare are the times I try to leg it with it and not gamble my win with another FtH to be honest. Also dodge roll has an incredible short range and is not even that accuarte compared to a Tracer blink for example.

Most characters don't heal. That's hardly a weakness if the majority of characters don't have it.

Out of the offensive heroes, Soldier 76 heals. Reaper heals "on kill". Tracers can practically reset her health with recall. Genji and Pharah have "enhanced" mobility which kinda equates the lack.

Okay he runs slow. That's a pretty weak weakness.

Well not really. Try to outrun a 76 or a Reaper that managed to spot you when you cannot FB+FtH. After a Mccree has zeroed someone, and it's pretty much just 1 unless slow reactions are involved, people should be on his case because that's when he is most vulnerable.

He is loud, yeah this is true, but the game is also pretty loud as well. When you're in the middle of a team fight sometimes you don't hear the McCree flanking you until you're flashbanged and dead.

Well if Mccree is flanking your team and obviously you cannot hear his footstep in the gunfiring mess...well your team mates are not really keeping an eye on the flanks, especially when you know there's an aggressive mccree around. I've flanked a lot with Mccree and also been victim of others doing the same, hell even seen and done some Deadeye flanking from behind the entire team without them noticing. But is that a reason to give salt to the hero itself? I don't think so, it's actually clever from the player to use it that way. If you notice the enemy mccree is constantly going for your support, just stick a Soldier 76 or a Mei to it or whatever esle can outflank him.

Don't get me wrong, I am NOT saying Mccree is fine as it is. He definately needs his dmg down on tanks, but on anything else should probably stay the same for the variety of reasons people stated above. An heavy nerf to his right click to the point where it's not deadly anymore on heroes up to 250 hp will most likely bring up his left click, and then you'll see even more salt because good aim people will just headshot with 1 click and dead again within the stun of FB.

And yeah sorry if I broke down your post in bits, thoguht each piece required an answer point per point.

[Djriff]

Always a bit terrifying when you hear "It's high noon" and you have no idea where McCree is.

[Deleted]

Always a bit terrifying when you hear "It's high noon" and you have no idea where McCree is.

Oh yeah, the first times I was facing Mccrees with my team mates, and the "It's High Noon" was going off, I was literally screaming "HIDE!" on the voice chat, all panicky and stuff. Now it's a little more confortable and the moment I hear it I just look for a glowing scruffy cowboy to Helix Rocket the face. Works surprisingly well if I am not slow to react alone, with team aid is piece of cake.

[Mormolyce]

That is a simple idea but not simple to execute. Every character takes the same damage from everything, so they would have to program tanks to take reduced damage from one specific ability. I'm sure they can do it, but don't think that it's an easy thing to do or that it is a quick fix.

To be honest I don't know why they didn't just set it up so all tanks have an X% damage reduction from all sources, and then scale their HP/armour/shields/etc accordingly.

But yeah, I didn't mean simple as in "one line of code" so much as design-wise simple.

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I wonder if people realize that walking while pressing crouch makes your footsteps quiet?

Wait so... crouch does something? :O

Must remember that!

[Bullettime]

The only one of those characters that actually counters him is Zarya because she can shield after the stun and absorb the FtH.

Junkrats about even because at range he can take a McCree but up close he stands no chance

Widow and Hanzo would be counters except he can actually compete with his range on left click and kill them if they are not careful.

He was designed to counter heroes like Genji and Tracer with a lot of mobility

He shreds Winston too easily, which is why they're nerfing him.

Exactly. It's fine that he brutalizes people up close or shits on the high mobility flanking characters. The problem is that he also rips apart tank characters stupidly fast to go with his other advantages. There's other heroes that are supposed to be for that job while Mcree just walks up and Fans people like Winston and D.Va and obliterates them unless they have all cooldowns available to escape with a sliver.

[Bluntron]

The distance on FB needs a nerf and I say he is balanced
I shouldnt be FB as soldier 76 when squaring off with mccree. What i mean is, I see mccree and he sees me and we go at it. Not some run around a corner and there's mccree waiting there.

Let me break down like this

Currently: Mccree can FB+Roll+FtH = Win

What needs to be: Mccree has to Roll+FB+FtH = Win

Ppl shouldnt be able to be FB at mid range.

[RapBreon]

Ironically the two champs he's meant to counter actually stand the best chance of beating him in a duel. Genji/Tracer can beat him depending on their strategy and how they use their kit. If both players are of exact equal skill, McCree will win most of the time (but that's the point), but it's so easy to convince a McCree to flashbang himself (or throw it at nothing in the case of Tracer).

Other than them, I find Roadhog to be the most effective counter, you get stunned and then just hook him and one shot him, he can't burn your HP before your hook connects.

I do think FtH needs to be looked at though, left click is under utilized and not even worth using even outside of optimal FtH range, simply because you can roll the dice with 6 bullets instead of 1/2 that require good aim.

[Deleted]

Mc Cree is a character that was already nerfed in the beta specifically targeting his ranged damage. He now does a pathetic 25 dmg per shot at max range and a maximum of 75 in close range.
Imho the 25 dmg long range is absolute trash considering how hard it is to aim with his gun compared to other heroes at long range. It's one pullet per shot with pin point accuracy.
I will admit that back then being both good at max and close range has a little OP but why would you want to nerf his short range after this too?
What will be the reason to pick mc cree then?
Do you truly wanna see more tracers running around annoying the ever living fuck out of you?

[Zelendria]

He will not be nerfed to the point of squishies dominating him. That's not his issue. His issue is dominating a hero in a split second with 2.5x his HP, and a huge hitbox that frankly is quite hard to miss with his fan.

[qwikz]

Mc Cree is a character that was already nerfed in the beta specifically targeting his ranged damage. He now does a pathetic 25 dmg per shot at max range and a maximum of 75 in close range.
Imho the 25 dmg long range is absolute trash considering how hard it is to aim with his gun compared to other heroes at long range. It's one pullet per shot with pin point accuracy.
I will admit that back then being both good at max and close range has a little OP but why would you want to nerf his short range after this too?
What will be the reason to pick mc cree then?
Do you truly wanna see more tracers running around annoying the ever living fuck out of you?

I'll gladly take a pack of Tracers all day everyday because at least you can deal with her. McCree just disables you and strips you of all control of your character and just rightclicks to kill you with no effort at all, thats just bullshit and bad design.

[tangers58]

Yeah you all gonna hate me about this but... McCree is not OP (well ok ill take it, its a bit OP), people made him OP. Ok he stuns you and he kills you using his right click, but heroes like Reaper do the same spamming his left click in close range, and I still dont see people QQing about it. But well game's community is always the same: "Oh god this Champion/hero/whatever 2 shot me, he/she/it should be nerfed!". You will never see someone saying : "Well that was maybe my bad, I didnt play well that last fight"...

Reaper actually has to aim at people, Mccree just uses his 100% hit stun and shoots their stunned body... or do you think it takes skill to hit a target that can't move?

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Ironically the two champs he's meant to counter actually stand the best chance of beating him in a duel. Genji/Tracer can beat him depending on their strategy and how they use their kit. If both players are of exact equal skill, McCree will win most of the time (but that's the point), but it's so easy to convince a McCree to flashbang himself (or throw it at nothing in the case of Tracer).

Other than them, I find Roadhog to be the most effective counter, you get stunned and then just hook him and one shot him, he can't burn your HP before your hook connects.

I do think FtH needs to be looked at though, left click is under utilized and not even worth using even outside of optimal FtH range, simply because you can roll the dice with 6 bullets instead of 1/2 that require good aim.

Mccree would have to be completely fucking retarded to flashbang himself, his stun is only deflected if he aims at Genji, all he has to do is aim at the ground and let his bullshit aoe stun do the rest.

[Deleted]

I think a way of "slightly" nerfing McCree would be to put a short cooldown (~2s?) on Fan the Hammer after Flashbang.
He could still counter flankers with Flashbang + Leftklick to the head but would not be able to erase tanks so quickly and effortlessly too.

A nerf too big would just show how absolutely unnerving Tracer is, if there is no McCree around to stop her.

[Deleted]

I think a way of "slightly" nerfing McCree would be to put a short cooldown (~2s?) on Fan the Hammer after Flashbang.
He could still counter flankers with Flashbang + Leftklick to the head but would not be able to erase tanks so quickly and effortlessly too.

A nerf too big would just show how absolutely unnerving Tracer is, if there is no McCree around to stop her.

As his left clik is right now, you're nerver gonna kill anyone with FB+left click in the head. The dmg is too low to do anything meaningfull which is why FtH is in place. And remember FtH already has a 3s "cooldown" in the form of the reload when dodge roll is not available. Placing an additional one after the FB use...would pretty much invalidate the FB itself.

As you said to control the Tracers, FB+FtH is most liekly here to stay as it is with the exception of tanks. God forbid they want to increase his left becasue then you will see left click one shots on everyone within the FB stun.

[Valkaneer]

I think a way of "slightly" nerfing McCree would be to put a short cooldown (~2s?) on Fan the Hammer after Flashbang.
He could still counter flankers with Flashbang + Leftklick to the head but would not be able to erase tanks so quickly and effortlessly too.

A nerf too big would just show how absolutely unnerving Tracer is, if there is no McCree around to stop her.

I could only see possibly shortening the stun, making his range making his range single target less accuratelike Bastions accuracy at range, or add one more second cool down to Fan the hammer. But only one of them, anything more would make him suck.

[Deleted]

I'll gladly take a pack of Tracers all day everyday because at least you can deal with her. McCree just disables you and strips you of all control of your character and just rightclicks to kill you with no effort at all, thats just bullshit and bad design.

You really haven't seen a good tracer then. I dont know of anyone else who can counter her effectively with the exception of torbjorn who won't see much play in higher ranks anyway cause he is piss easy to deal with.

[Zahlen]

For D.Va I'd take having to reload for an increase in dps in between times. Also she needs an ED209 skin. I don't play close combat characters, so I don't see what the fuss is about McCree :s

even with long range characters, if he gets close to you, you're screwed. There is no fighting against a mccree. E -> MB2 Ur dead.

[Avellon]

The concern Blizzard expressed with McCree was only in regards with him being able to destroy tanks too efficiently.
I imagine he'll still be able to destroy pretty much anything else with his stun-fan-the-hammer "trick".
I don't expect a redesign, nor a nerf that makes him useless/bland as many seem to want.

[minteK917]

The concern Blizzard expressed with McCree was only in regards with him being able to destroy tanks too efficiently.
I imagine he'll still be able to destroy pretty much anything else with his stun-fan-the-hammer "trick".
I don't expect a redesign, nor a nerf that makes him useless/bland as many seem to want.

Its the sensible thing. He does his job well, just too well on everyone. Its even easy to fix. Make FotH damage reducing until its last shot. Right now it deals 70x6=420. Roll reload makes it so that you can do it twice quickly to kill tanks. 420 is beyond overkill for all non tanks heroes. So just make it do more upfront and less in the final shots to do a smaller number like 300-350. So everyone else dies just as fast, tanks actually have much better chance getting away.

It could now deal 80-70-60-50-40-30. Meaning it would deal 330 damage total. Anyone under 200 hp still dies in the three first shots like before too (210 damage). Since fan cannot head shot, its even easier to balance its time to kill at will.

It could be reduced lower, but if it is i believe his left click needs a buff then. 80 base damage, 40 drop off max range. Otherwise hes pretty useless outside of flash combo if he cant reliably kill his targets close range. He would just be a slightly better dueler than tracer and Reaper, but with no ability to take pack of players like tracer and reaper can.

[Zelendria]

Take away instant reload on roll
Slightly decrease general reload speed.
And slightly tune fan.

Now it takes fan + standard reload + fan. That's a time frame more like 5-6s instead of 3s. Considerably longer for a tank to survive

Simply nerfing the crap out of fan only is bad. For example the 300dmg point is too low for normal players, who believe it or not, do miss tanks with some of the shots, and they really miss the slender targets he was designed to kill with it.
300dmg however is still enough for a good player to fan, roll, fan and hit the tank for 9-10 of 12 shots.

[Valkaneer]

Take away instant reload on roll
Slightly decrease general reload speed.
And slightly tune fan.

Now it takes fan + standard reload + fan. That's a time frame more like 5-6s instead of 3s. Considerably longer for a tank to survive

Simply nerfing the crap out of fan only is bad. For example the 300dmg point is too low for normal players, who believe it or not, do miss tanks with some of the shots, and they really miss the slender targets he was designed to kill with it.
300dmg however is still enough for a good player to fan, roll, fan and hit the tank for 9-10 of 12 shots.

IMO if you get fan roll fan and your tank and you die it's mainly your own fault.