BREXIT - leave or remain?

[Mayhem]

i was quoting another person but it didnt quote the other persons text ops

Well then edit your post because those 3 points do not make any sense.

[Deleted]

They want to stay because they have the education and knowledge to know what would happen if the leave.
Personally, I think it is a bad idea for the UK to leave, but I think the EU would be easier to reform without them.

the EU is falling apart, and all that education and knowledge and yet there all a bunch of lying hypocrits when it comes down to it, i can tell so many people here still have the wool over there eyes and i hope that you pull it off and see what politicians and the EU are really like

[Deleted]

You know that UK could benefit much more by changing left-side driving into right-size driving than any predictions on potential benefit from leaving EU. I lived in London for few years and i'm sure that

a) people in London makes the decisions
b) people in London are detached
c) if anything bad will happen it will not be to people of London

For Banking sector if Brexit will be a success in hiding money they will stay if not they will move to Paris (second biggest financial center in EU) so they kinda risk nothing in terms of big money and they don't care about normal people at all.

Also i wonder how the raising prices of food will be sorted out by leaving EU, there is a limit to what quantities of food UK farmers can make and last 5 years cost of food skyrocketed in London. We are talking 40-80% more than in 2012 that is ~20% a year or even more. UK farmers will lose subsidiary cash from EU so either there will be a massive tax on food from EU or UK will have to pay this cash to farmers either way at least half of the food will go drastically up.

Hey you liked that Wine/Cheese from France ? Guess what everything instant 20-40% up because of customs. Because EU as whole is a larger market than UK it can compensate the lose, not like 0 damage but there will be damage still not as much as UK.

Now the gambit is "Well we can leave EU but stay inside the free trade rules bla bla bla" but EU isn't that retarded, it is not like it is driven by 500 David Camerons, this solo decision would mean end of EU as each country would want exactly the same treatment.

Overall i think personally UK leaving EU is a bad thing, but sometimes you need a "Bad touch" to wake up. Maybe UK citizen would wake up after food price shock and losing ability to travel cheap and fast for vacations. Maybe it is needed.

[Deleted]

Remain, stop voting protest parties into power in Europe and actually vote people in who will push our interests, kick Germany out of the top spot and take power in Europe for ourselves, end the open borders, send the migrants back.

[Deleted]

just to be clear french cheese and wine are nasty as fuck i prefer my mature cheddar which is english cheese not any of that gooey sloppy french stuff yuckie , i dnt have anything to lose really if we left

[Mayhem]

Now the gambit is "Well we can leave EU but stay inside the free trade rules bla bla bla" but EU isn't that retarded, it is not like it is driven by 500 David Camerons, this solo decision would mean end of EU as each country would want exactly the same treatment.

Sure, do that and see how much influence you will have on EU trade rules.

[Deleted]

Remain, stop voting protest parties into power in Europe and actually vote people in who will push our interests, kick Germany out of the top spot and take power in Europe for ourselves, end the open borders, send the migrants back.

yeah the remainers support the conservatives and they sure have everyones interest at heart lol

[DarkAmbient]

My vote's in the post

[Kalis]

just to be clear french cheese and wine are nasty as fuck i prefer my mature cheddar which is english cheese not any of that gooey sloppy french stuff yuckie , i dnt have anything to lose really if we left

We will still have French cheeses and wine if we leave the EU, we are not moving the entire country to somewhere out of reach of French imports.

Though it would be nice if it was somewhere a bit warmer, then I would move back permanently.

[Deleted]

I'm coming from this with a completely different view point. I'm voting to leave, specifically so Scotland will go for independence, which will have a knock on effect for the Northern part of Ireland

[Soxoffender]

minimum wage went up yes but its still nowhere near the living wage

Are you seriously trying to imply that Boris Johnson/Disgraced Former Defence Secretary, Dr Liam Fox, et. al are going to call for an increase in the minimum wage if we leave the EU? Business groups have specifically stated that their members are keen to see us leave because it means they can lobby to scrap the UK implementation of the Working Time Directive. They want fewer workers' rights and protections, not more.

what cos of my opinion, if your voting remain your supporting immigration on mass as anyone with an EU passport can freely come to the UK and use all our services without paying into the system ever. if you work you would understand that your tax is increased because of immigration as more people need treating etc the more tax goes up to handle the increase of services

This is simply not true.

On the first count - immigration from outside the EU (which we are free to control how we choose) is higher than from the EU. If we pull out of the EU there's no reason to believe that any system we fall back on will be successful in radically reducing the numbers.

On the second count - An EU citizen is entitled to stay for three months, but after that either has to have a job; be looking for a job with a real chance to get one; or prove they have enough money to not be a burden on the state.

It's almost as if you've not done the most basic of research...

[ati87]

1. the EU doesnt have an army what about the UN,NATO and most countries in the EU have there own militia
2. oh you mean like turkey who havnt even jumped the first hurdle, yeah the EU is so great with spain in a youth unemployment crisis, and terrorism in france and belgium and a mass immigration problem in germany and beyond

3. voting in a general election doesnt affect the EU one bit all it does is changes the party and leader of the country laws for the UK are still decided in brussels

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the EU is becoming a superstate though

1) NATO is not EU, it has nothing to do with the EU and the only connnection it has with the EU is the potential members that overlap in both organizations.

Nato is alliance that most countries joined by themselves without any EU involvementto counter the power of the USSR. You have countries in the EU that aren't part of Nato and the other way around, so apart from some overlap it has zero connection with the EU. UNless you think that the USA is part of the EU?

UN doesn't have a real army, the UN can't go invade countries (it;s like invading yourself which is kind of weird), it has a peace keeping corpse that has again no bloody connection with the EU. You want to leave the UN? Go ahead and campaign for that.

And what does the national army of every country have to do with anything?

2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future...sed_candidates
list of candidates that want to join, seems your argument is just bloody wrong about nobody wanting to join.

Also what's the point in brining spain up now? or any other countries you just mentioned? The issues you just mentioned are internal affair's that the EU has no bloody control over. They can help in some cases but your really don't understand anything in regards to the role the EU.


3) Go educate yourself in regards to how the EU works. The EU can't do anything if the member states disagree on something,

France forcer's the EU to have a annual back and forth which people that are working for the EU really hate but can't change it because of the French government.

Poland is currently introducing anti democratic laws and the EU as a whole can't punish them enough because of how the EU works.

final note:

Yes the EU is a super power and a super state now I'm talking about now and not in the distant future. The US couldn't fine google for missuses of power but the EU sure the hell can. Your talking about the biggest economical block in the world, the EU as a whole is bigger then China or the US.

You really don't understand in how the EU work, it's kind of shocking where you are getting your information from.

[Kalis]

I'm coming from this with a completely different view point. I'm voting to leave, specifically so Scotland will go for independence, which will have a knock on effect for the Northern part of Ireland (I'm sure people from the UK will know what i'm getting at, so no offense intended)

Why would Northern Ireland leave the UK? Eire could not afford to subsidise them and the majority do not wish to leave the UK.

And why do spell 'offense' with an 's'? We are not Yanks, so stop it.

[Medusa Cascade]

Just voted remain

[Whiskeyjack WN]

Are you seriously trying to imply that Boris Johnson/Disgraced Former Defence Secretary, Dr Liam Fox, et. al are going to call for an increase in the minimum wage if we leave the EU? Business groups have specifically stated that their members are keen to see us leave because it means they can lobby to scrap the UK implementation of the Working Time Directive. They want fewer workers' rights and protections, not more.

Can you name on of those Business groups? any of them actually relevant?

No government will ever remove workers rights. The UK were the first to implement proper worker rights, the EU may enforce and refine the existing ones but the UK had them already. No government who wants to remain in power will touch those rights.. just another scaremongering tactic.

This is simply not true.
On the second count - An EU citizen is entitled to stay for three months, but after that either has to have a job; be looking for a job with a real chance to get one; or prove they have enough money to not be a burden on the state.

While this may be the intention it simply does not work like that. I know many people, some of them relations i am ashamed to admit, who have come here no questions asked, were handed an NI number, and were given benefits right away. Their 'actively' looking for work consists of turning up to a job centre every 2 weeks and claiming they have been applying to jobs...

The intentions of the system might be there, but it just doesn't work that way in reality.

On the first count - immigration from outside the EU (which we are free to control how we choose) is higher than from the EU. If we pull out of the EU there's no reason to believe that any system we fall back on will be successful in radically reducing the numbers.

Why do people keep using the 'immigration from outside the EU is higher' argument? Sky news figures last night claimed that there was 270,000 from the EU versus 277,000 from outside the EU. Indeed there is some more, BUT that is 270,000 out of 500million versus 277,000 out of around 7billion... That's circa 0.06% of the EU population versus 0.003% (top of my head so might be a little of on %)

But I agree there is no guarantee that the numbers would reduce.. that is all down to the government to set up a proper system though. Immigration is not a bad thing, they just need to weed out benefit immigrants.

Honestly so far nobody has been able to give me a compelling reason to stay in. Sure things 'might' get worse if we leave, but equally the 'might' get a lot better. One thing for sure is our current state is a joke, so remaining will not improve or position, only maintain it. (then you have the federal EU state, something that the UK doesn't want.. but that might not happen). After all the Antarctic is the only market with a lower growth rate than the EU. People should not be afraid of change, it is rarely a bad thing. And honestly so far neither side has actually given proper 'FACTS' its all just speculation and scaremongering.

Hopefully there will be a few more intelligent debates in the coming weeks, instead of this 'if we leave World War 3 will start' type bullshit which honestly demeans a very important vote.

[Deleted]

yeah the remainers support the conservatives and they sure have everyones interest at heart lol

I voted for the Conservatives because there were no other options. And if the political landscape of the UK remains the same, then i'll continue to vote for them. Corbyn should never be in power, the Loony Left will never get voted in. The Lib Dems are dead or as good as, Clegg has seen to that. The Greens are a joke party and UKIP has no policies beyond "Lets leave Europe", so what other choice do we have?.

The Tories will remain in power, especially now that Labour has lost Scotland. Now if we leave Europe and we lose all the protection on worker rights and employment laws that come with that, what are the Tories going to do? We'll see worker rights scrapped until we end up looking like some knock off of the US were someone can be fired for any reason.

Staying in Europe under a Tory government is the safest bet. And the Tories aren't going anywhere soon.

[Medusa Cascade]

I voted Tory even though I'm a Labour member

[Mehrunes]

1. the EU doesnt have an army what about the UN,NATO and most countries in the EU have there own militia

And UN or NATO are as relevant to the topic as WTO or International Philatelic Union.

2. oh you mean like turkey who havnt even jumped the first hurdle, yeah the EU is so great with spain in a youth unemployment crisis, and terrorism in france and belgium and a mass immigration problem in germany and beyond

But they don't want to join Spain, France, Belgium or Germany. They want to join the EU and the benefits it can give to them. The individual problems of member states don't factor into that. What's next, countries don't want to join the EU because UK weather sucks?

3. voting in a general election doesnt affect the EU one bit all it does is changes the party and leader of the country laws for the UK are still decided in brussels

Both the national governments (in form of individual ministers) and MEPs are elected and take part in EUs legislative process.

the EU is becoming a superstate though

Ruled by Illuminati Lizardmen, no doubt.

the EU is falling apart, and all that education and knowledge and yet there all a bunch of lying hypocrits when it comes down to it, i can tell so many people here still have the wool over there eyes and i hope that you pull it off and see what politicians and the EU are really like

People have been screaming that the EU is falling apart the day EU was formed, yet it's the people that recognize doomsday paranoia for what it is and have the (immense) cognitive ability required to notice that it's still standing who have wool over their eyes?

[Kallisto]

1. the EU doesnt have an army what about the UN,NATO and most countries in the EU have there own militia
2. oh you mean like turkey who havnt even jumped the first hurdle, yeah the EU is so great with spain in a youth unemployment crisis, and terrorism in france and belgium and a mass immigration problem in germany and beyond

3. voting in a general election doesnt affect the EU one bit all it does is changes the party and leader of the country laws for the UK are still decided in brussels

1) Nato doesn't have their own army. Each member does. Some of which overlap with the EU. EU and UN also don't have their own armies.

2) Turkey isn't the only country that wants in. Bosnia, Serbia, Albania, FYRM, Montenegro, Moldova, Western half of Ukraine, Gerogia. Pretty much all of Europe not Switzerland, Norway, Iceland or Russian aligned want to join. For the first three they already are pretty much following 90% of EU laws to get access to the single market. As for Turkey, they're not joining any time soon. UK will veto, Cyprus will sure as hell Veto. If you think Veto means nothing Greece has vetoed the hell out of FYRM joining just on them trying to usurp the Macedonian name. How do you think Cyprus will act while half their nation is occupied by Turkey?

3) No but voting in the European elections do. Only problem is turnout is so damn low and many in the UK don't understand what they are voting on.

[Mehrunes]

Are you seriously trying to imply that Boris Johnson/Disgraced Former Defence Secretary, Dr Liam Fox, et. al are going to call for an increase in the minimum wage if we leave the EU? Business groups have specifically stated that their members are keen to see us leave because it means they can lobby to scrap the UK implementation of the Working Time Directive. They want fewer workers' rights and protections, not more.

That's lies spread by the government and 99% of the media that are also controlled by the government. UK is the paradise of human and worker's laws. That's why they have... an opt-out of the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union and why they throw a hissy fit whenever EU wants to strengthen worker rights or at least introduce additional protections of existing ones? Wait, I am confused.

It's almost as if you've not done the most basic of research...

Not "almost".

anyways i dnt even know what to vote anymore i really dnt reading stuff online and stuff i dunno

Poland is currently introducing anti democratic laws and the EU as a whole can't punish them enough because of how the EU works.

Well, EC is about to enter the second phase of the Rule of Law Framework in regards to Poland, if Poland doesn't submit their observations on the recent EC's opinion on the issue or doesn't resolve the concerns in satisfactory way within a reasonable amount of time. Poland's stance is that the opinion isn't binding and the EC doesn't even have the authority to give it according to the treaties (despite the fact that it does and it was PiS itself - the party currently in power and creating this mess - who negotiated the Lisbon Treaty that makes it so, when they were in power the previous time), and as such they are not obligated to do anything whatsoever with the opinion. And given how they claim they offered multiple chances of solving the issue despite doing nothing in over half a year but making it even worse, they aren't going to fix it within reasonable time either.

And once the second phase hits and the EC sends not opinions but recommendations, they will repeat their bullshit about how the EC has no authority to do anything and how they are in the right, and how it's Judeo-Communist fringe leftists in the EC oppressing poor, valiant Poland, because Polish postcommunist center-right (don't pay attention to the lack of sense) PO and Nowoczesna parties are just salty about losing power (never mind that Nowoczesna and its politicians are largely new to the political scene) and their gene of national treason makes them denunciate their motherland to the undemocratic dystopia that is EU. At which point the only thing that can save Poland from sanctions is Orban.