[LEGION] What is your GUT telling you? FIRE/ARCANE/FROST? [DPS][PvE][Raiding]

[Deleted]

I gave up on any chance of fire being well rounded, nerf, band aid, nerf, band aid, nerf...you get the idea

How does any of you reach that conclusion?

Have you played fire at all in any other expansion past wotlk? If you really think removing any interaction the spec had and replacing it with something that has no interaction and expect it to be all good, you're in for a treat.

[Deleted]

Have you played fire at all in any other expansion past wotlk? If you really think removing any interaction the spec had and replacing it with something that has no interaction and expect it to be all good, you're in for a treat.

Before rolleyeing people, try to be in context. I was replying to you talking about nerfbats and to someone else talking about OPness in AOE. It has nothing to do with mechanics.

I understand the mechanical concerns against current Legion fire.

To be honest, at least Living Bomb's concerns are exaggerated.

[Cebel]

All 3 specs are miserably boring.

The problem is, pretty much every other ranged dps class is just as miserably boring.

Hoping to switch to melee, but its doubtful, and so I have no idea what im going to suffer through with.

[Deleted]

I loved the multistrike Frost spec it was so much fun. The new frost is just 2 steps backward so I wont be playing that. I rather wish they just changed frost mastery into multistrike mechanic.

Fire has changes that should have been made in MoP and definitly in Cataclysm. This makes fire changes a bit outdated but it has some fun elements in it and i really like cauterizing blink.

Arcane I still need to testplay more to make up my mind, I don't think it will be pvp viable mostly because it's around avoiding dmg that doesnt work in pvp meta. It does seem decent.


Currently im leaning to fire, second arcane.
I wonder what will happen to insane burst abilities after tweaking have passed. Both Arcane and frost have one and some other classes as well.

[killor318]

I started mine as fire in cata. went back and forth between fire and frost in mop. all frost now... fire was in a sad state. Hyped for Fire again in legion. likely keep playing frost as an os.

[Felancelan]

For most classes they gutted them and have alot of play between talents. With the new combustion as a cd, off global and usable while casting and haste lowering the inferno blast cooldown, I'm really enjoying the revamp. Add in the instant Pyro to not be consumed and hot steak jumping to instant Pyro inseam of heating up in the talents too.

[Profal]

So far fire is in a decent place from my experience through Beta and I'm not having many issues with it while leveling.

I've swapped between all three specs so far and have only had time to manage to get to 106. But for purposes of leveling so far

Frost
Fire
Arcane

In that specific order with ease of leveling with the zones scaling to your level. When it comes to end game, time will tell as they continue to do tuning passes, but with the loss of multistrike in frost and a turn to haste for ebonbolts and glacial spikes, I'm not too sure it'll be as competative as Fire or Arcane.

PvE Endgame.

Arcane / Fire will be close.
Frost just slightly behind.

But all three should be relatively close in the end.

[Antermosiph]

The fact I'm going to be glazed in a frost bubble regardless of if I'm arcane or fire 99% of the time just means I'll be playing a shadowpriest or warlock this expansion.

Sucks too as I was really looking forward to fire after being arcane all of WoD.

[Profal]

Frosts pace of play was slowed dramatically, Arcane, slow and sluggish. Fire is interesting, but the change to Combustion I don't feel is really working out as well as intended. Too short of a duration to really be effective in my opinion. Fire overall is the more enjoyable to play of the specs, but there's definitely nothing overly spectacular.

Won't change, will still be maining a mage as I don't think it'll be 'as bad' as it seems as gear progresses.

[Vakna]

Who wants to take wagers we'll be shoehorned into another xpac of spamming arcane blast in raids because no other spec can match the single target numbers?

I really want to choose fire at the start and have some fun, but judging from past experience I'll only be holding myself back later on. I'll still keep hoping that they can do some significant balancing, but realistically speaking it's probably not going to happen. Will likely reroll class rather than play through another tier as arcane.

[Profal]

Who wants to take wagers we'll be shoehorned into another xpac of spamming arcane blast in raids because no other spec can match the single target numbers?

I really want to choose fire at the start and have some fun, but judging from past experience I'll only be holding myself back later on. I'll still keep hoping that they can do some significant balancing, but realistically speaking it's probably not going to happen. Will likely reroll class rather than play through another tier as arcane.

I think your guess is fairly spot on and wouldn't be surprised if we see a repeat of WoD. Frost Progression, Arcane otherwise, Fire for AoE.

[antelope591]

Fire will be strongest if it stays like this in anything with an add scenario (which was basically every fight in HFC) so we know blizz loves adds. My mage on beta already has 49% crit with a mix of dungeon blues/world quest blues, could easily see going up to 70% crit with raid gear. Obviously something will have to give in that scenario. Arcane looks quite strong in pure single target and meh in aoe. Frost just looks meh in general, same as always.

[whisperingsage]

They said secondaries would start at a higher minimum in Legion, but not scale as high. I doubt they'd let crit go from 49% to 70% by the first raid, or they've already cut off most of the room to grow for the rest of the expansion.

[Deleted]

Fire will be strongest if it stays like this in anything with an add scenario (which was basically every fight in HFC) so we know blizz loves adds. My mage on beta already has 49% crit with a mix of dungeon blues/world quest blues, could easily see going up to 70% crit with raid gear. Obviously something will have to give in that scenario. Arcane looks quite strong in pure single target and meh in aoe. Frost just looks meh in general, same as always.

The problem with AOE is that it's rarely required on a massive scale. The only fight that could use it relatively reliably, stably, was Xhul and even there it has caveats. In various fights the utility of burning is more important and when AOE was important it was often for short term bursts that the nova spells made all specs relatively close since most guilds kill those adds slightly after the two GCDs.

Of course Arcane is full of caveats. It's a pain in the butt on anything before hard-mode raiding because it can't be moving around because of clumsy tanks or generally bad strategy. In bosses that don't have priority targets (of high importance) it can be just worse.

[Xio]

I played with mage as my main char in BC together with priest its my favorite. I thinking in legion return to mage but I dont have
Beta and I would like to know what will be the most fun to play and also the most wanted for mythic raids.

[antelope591]

The problem with AOE is that it's rarely required on a massive scale. The only fight that could use it relatively reliably, stably, was Xhul and even there it has caveats. In various fights the utility of burning is more important and when AOE was important it was often for short term bursts that the nova spells made all specs relatively close since most guilds kill those adds slightly after the two GCDs.

Of course Arcane is full of caveats. It's a pain in the butt on anything before hard-mode raiding because it can't be moving around because of clumsy tanks or generally bad strategy. In bosses that don't have priority targets (of high importance) it can be just worse.

Even in 2-3 target scenarios fire is quite strong due to phoenix flame. Its only pure single target where it struggles. I don't think there'll be too many patchwerk fights in Legion but we'll see.

[Deleted]

Even in 2-3 target scenarios fire is quite strong due to phoenix flame. Its only pure single target where it struggles. I don't think there'll be too many patchwerk fights in Legion but we'll see.

Oh I fully expect fire to be very viable in Legion in single target and cleave. I don't believe it's AOE will be insane by the way. When I saw the Combustion change I realized the whole philosophy is to turn it into a more "normal" spec with more regular single target damage (i.e. better) and more regular AOE damage (i.e. lower) because Legion's thing is to keep people into the same spec, for a while at least.

[Bryanator1989]

Plan on playing fire and probably arcane.

[Profal]

Plan on playing fire and probably arcane.

Arcane / Fire is a fairly safe bet.

After the tuning pass that occurred last night, it looks like they're trying to stabilize the specs to be as even as they can.

Arcane

-20% to Arcane Barrage
-10% to Arcane Blast
-25% to Arcane Missiles

Buff to Mage Armor

Fire

Firestarter Talent: Fireballs always deal critical strike when target is above 85% rather than 90%.

+10% to fireball
+70% to Pyroblast.

Frost

Lonely Winter Talent: Frozen Orb deals 30% increased damage, up from 15%. (As useless as that thing is currently on Beta with it just flying wherever).

-13% to Frostbolt.

Some interesting changes, and Arcane smacked hard, it didn't seem like it was that far ahead of fire. But again, looks like they're trying to keep them all as even as they can.

[Deleted]

-20% to Arcane Barrage
-10% to Arcane Blast
-25% to Arcane Missiles

Buff to Mage Armor

The fact they nerf single target burst but they give more mana, further strengthens the notion that this expansion tries to make all specs as flat as possible in capability. Arcane was way too good at burst DPS and it appears they try to moderate that (especially since the highest sustained damage talent on row 100 will likely be the slow-building Quickening). Similarly fire appears to be getting very reliable single target DPS and I'm pretty sure they intend for its AOE to be much lower.