Catering to casuals, I've seen it happen twice.

[Deleted]

Explain why TBC gained subs over Vanilla despite making the game easier, then.

TBC didn't make the game easier than vanilla though.

This whole hardcore vs casual is a whole marketing bullshit blizzard came up to flatter the players who completed the content and try to make the player believe they couldn't fine tune their game design (the battle system) and encounters anymore.

[Birkhoff]

Wait, LoL has caught the casualization disease? I haven't played it in over 3 years and always think about going back but if thats true, there are newer and better games. How have they reduced the competitiveness exactly?

There's no solo queue anymore, you can climb the ladder with a premade of 5. Go solo against a premade of 5, go solo with a premade of 4, etc etc. Everybody gets carried, ranked integrity is gone because it does not measure skill of a player correctly anymore.

Their reasoning is that it's a way to promote fun for casual players by making them be able to play with friends in ranked. Being able to climb together rather than alone.

[Jtbrig7390]

The players make the problem, and then blame blizzard for it.
Because they are incapable of admitting it themselves.

Yep I have repeated this for ages.

They blame LFD,LFG and LFR for the community being toxic and ignore the fact its always been toxic. Like I have said before FFXIV has the same systems (Or systems like it) and IMO its one of the best MMO community's.

Its LFR mode even gives somewhat of a challenge. So what is the major difference in the FFXIV community and WoW's.

- - - Updated - - -

Burden is on you to provide the proof though.

Done.....

http://investor.activision.com/corporate-governance.cfm

[Deleted]

Like I have said before FFXIV has the same systems (Or systems like it) and IMO its one of the best MMO community's.

Its LFR mode even gives somewhat of a challenge. So what is the major difference in the FFXIV community and WoW's.

It's because FFXIV caters to "super-casual" people who only care about how their character looks, and aren't very bothered by the very sloppy game design of most of the content in FFXIV .

[ComputerNerd]

Yep I have repeated this for ages.

They blame LFD,LFG and LFR for the community being toxic and ignore the fact its always been toxic. Like I have said before FFXIV has the same systems (Or systems like it) and IMO its one of the best MMO community's.

Its LFR mode even gives somewhat of a challenge. So what is the major difference in the FFXIV community and WoW's.

- - - Updated - - -

Done.....

http://investor.activision.com/corporate-governance.cfm

The wow community used to be far better, far more willing to spend time thinking about someone other than themselves.
Unfortunately that went downhill purely by choice.
It was that decline which is why the idea of group finders took off.
During early wrath I was seeing a significant trend in the use of gear scoring, this persistent demand to have all the benefits of the content while finding ways to do less leading by inflating requirements to trivialise the content as much as possible.

It's because FFXIV caters to "super-casual" people who only care about how their character looks, and aren't very bothered by the very sloppy game design of most of the content in FFXIV .

So by that argument if both are "catering to the casuals", how come one game has a far better community ?
It isn't those shared tools doing it.

[Mazaxist]

I cant comprehend why people still playing the game at the moment. Doing pet battles and collecting herbs.. what a joke.

[Jtbrig7390]

It's because FFXIV caters to "super-casual" people who only care about how their character looks, and aren't very bothered by the very sloppy game design of most of the content in FFXIV .

Roflmao.

Ya super casual, clearly you never played FFXIV. FFXIV may be one of the few who balance casual and hardcore content really well.

Thank's for proving my point that it isn't the tools that's causing the problem.

[Deleted]

So by that argument if both are "catering to the casuals", how come one game has a far better community ?
It isn't those shared tools doing it.

As I said, people don't look for the same thing in WoW and FFXIV. FFxiv is currently devoid of any interesting gameplay, while WoW still has a bit of interesting gameplay.

Ya super casual, clearly you never played FFXIV. FFXIV may be one of the few who balance casual and hardcore content really well.

I did since 1.0 alpha. Hardly anyone play the so called hardcore content anymore due to how bad the encounters are designed. Even before heavensward, only 300 players or so per server had completed the final floor of the coil of bahamut.

FFXIV indeed had wannabe hardcore content but only a small fraction of the already small ffxiv's community played that content. Most of the current player I know who currently play do so for glamours and housing.

The issues indeed aren't the tools but the sloppy game design of the battle system and the content (issues shared by both FFXIV and WoW). Both battle systems are made to cater to the solo player, it is no wonder it doesn't really work for group content (like raids).

[Osmeric]

Burden is on you to provide the proof though.

I have previously posted links:

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...s#post39931016

You can get the previous version of the bylaws using the Internet Time Machine at archive.org.

[Jtbrig7390]

The wow community used to be far better, far more willing to spend time thinking about someone other than themselves.
Unfortunately that went downhill purely by choice.
It was that decline which is why the idea of group finders took off.
During early wrath I was seeing a significant trend in the use of gear scoring, this persistent demand to have all the benefits of the content while finding ways to do less leading by inflating requirements to trivialise the content as much as possible.

Agreed. I remember the days of (LFM ToC Must be GS____) Fuck knowing the fights and how to do them. People wanted you in ICC gear for TOC before ICC even came out.

That is why LFG will never replace LFR because look at what the community has turned it into. I personally won't be subbed to WoW unless the endgame (Where the story ends) is queable because I have grown tired of that part of the community.

[Birkhoff]

I cant comprehend why people still playing the game at the moment. Doing pet battles and collecting herbs.. what a joke.

Pet battles, collecting herbs and doing transmogs. When they aren't doing that they are sitting in a city queueing up for something. The game is garbage and a total joke now.

World of Queuecraft. All you do is sit.

Rush to max level skip all the content -> sit in main city -> queue up for raid -> afk till queued -> join raid -> afk because LFR is too easy - > no one talks besides trolling -> raid takes 15 minutes get free loots without trying -> afk in main city -> repeat

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

Not catering to the casuals is exactly a main reason why WoD "failed" statistically.

[Eleccybubb]

Pet battles, collecting herbs and doing transmogs. When they aren't doing that they are sitting in a city queueing up for something. The game is garbage and a total joke now.

World of Queuecraft. All you do is sit.

Rush to max level skip all the content -> sit in main city -> queue up for raid -> afk till queued -> join raid -> afk because LFR is too easy - > no one talks besides trolling -> raid takes 15 minutes get free loots without trying -> afk in main city -> repeat

Or you know join an actual raiding guild? Also there are people who enjoy pet battles and mog runs. Just because you don't enjoy it does not mean everyone else has to. Also stop projecting your own personal experience like that is the norm of everyone in the game.

[Deleted]

Not catering to the casuals is exactly a main reason why WoD "failed" statistically.

If WoD doesn't cater to the casual players I don't know what does, as 1) you can faceroll on 99 % of the very small amount of content in the game (everything except hellfire citadel mythic) 2) you get everything handed to you with minimal efforts 3) without even needing to be in a guild.

[Birkhoff]

Or you know join an actual raiding guild? Also there are people who enjoy pet battles and mog runs. Just because you don't enjoy it does not mean everyone else has to. Also stop projecting your own personal experience like that is the norm of everyone in the game.

No point in doing that when casuals get to see the same content and get epic gear.

[Eleccybubb]

No point in doing that when casuals get to see the same content and get epic gear.

Then that is your issue.

[Eleccybubb]

Oooohhh...you mean when it was called "Wrath of the Casual King" and people claimed the game was finally dead in spirit. I see. Well...good thing Wildstar learned from Blizzard's mistakes and was pretty hardcore. It still to this day reigns supreme with 20 million players.....right?

Hey hey. It is still a decent game to be fair. Amazing housing system if not the best. But yeah them trying to be hardcore on top of a sub just did not work.

[Osmeric]

If WoD doesn't cater to the casual players I don't know what does, as 1) you can faceroll on 99 % of the very small amount of content in the game 2) you get everything handed to you with minimal efforts.

Casual players rapidly run out of content they can do that rewards anything. Small guilds were penalized in raids by the flex scaling mechanism.

Fundamentally though, WoD continues to send the message to casual players that they are second class citizens, that the devs only grudgingly provide them content (and then ensure it has bad rewards). The message sent is that the devs despise having to serve casual players. When things had to be cut, it was the casual experience that suffered.

The casual experience would be enhanced by purging the dev team of those developers who can't come to terms with who their real audience is.

[shawndean22]

I had played since vanilla, the best time i had was in the TBC. Lead a guild in Vanilla at end of high school, was too much had to quit for college. Quit after aq40. Came back for the TBC, never quit the TBC. The best time i had playing was in TBC. Could pug tier 4 every Tuesday, raid tier 5/6 during the week. Some Tier 4 was still good, and some heroic dungeons last items were still good. WOTLK got boring towards the end quit after i completed ICC. CATA was great in the beginning, got boring towards the middle. Quit after first tier come back for dragon soul. Mist got boring after first tier quit right after TOT was released. WOD was great but too short, quit after i completed HFC. Blackrock was best Raid in WOD. Looks like legion will be good in the beginning, but will it last we well see.

[Deleted]

Pet battles, collecting herbs and doing transmogs. When they aren't doing that they are sitting in a city queueing up for something. The game is garbage and a total joke now.

World of Queuecraft. All you do is sit.

Rush to max level skip all the content -> sit in main city -> queue up for raid -> afk till queued -> join raid -> afk because LFR is too easy - > no one talks besides trolling -> raid takes 15 minutes get free loots without trying -> afk in main city -> repeat

Obviously, thats what people want. You are just not one of them.